Did I overreact

[Clementinewine]

Hi everyone. Opinions wanted thanks!

Basically we were watching something where the girlfriend on the show told the boyfriend she was going out in the morning to get a cup of coffee for him. My guy said something along the lines of how he would never get that from me.

I said jokingly oh do you want me to be your slave then, he replied did I want him to be my slave, this hurt a bit as he has previously thrown out in arguments that he has felt used. So, I wanted to talk about that. I said what do you mean, I never ask for anything from you, I know you have said you felt used before and it concerns me.

Basically it blew up into a huge argument where as usual I got told I couldn't take a joke, at the end we were sitting in silence for a while and I just said shall I go then (we don't live together) he said no, I said well are were going to talk then, he said in a really sarcastic tone "well go on then talk, what do you want to talk about".

Ultimately I got teary (as is often the case) and we argued some more and he was pretty much laughing at me even though I was upset. Then I left.

He has been moody this weekend, said he was "low" so I almost expected we would argue.

I don't know I guess I did overreact. I just hate how everything is always me being unable to take a joke, me being too sensitive, and whenever I want to discuss something serious these days or I show I am annoyed he says I am going on and on, I admit maybe I do sometimes, but he has started just saying he is sick of my shit, or fed up with it, or whatever. So I am tired of that too. Thanks.

[annabel85]

You can't possibly continue this relationship. Dump.

[Opentooffers]

It's just 'banter' even when it's plain picking on someone. Seems he does a lot of this, it's wearing. I'm not a fan of constant banter, or 'taking the Mick'. It might just about be ok once in a blue moon, but as a daily communication habit, it's tedious. It's also a low form of humour, a cheap gag.
Some men do it to each other as a form of oneupmanship, it gets to a point of who can deliver the worst insult all in the name of fun and stops when someone is upset - then the other has 'won'. Happens mostly with uneducated men who can't articulate what they really feel, so hide it in a banter showdown. It can be like a testosterone-fuelled, puffing out the chest show. To people who know better, it's just trading insults because you are pissed off at something about the other person, but you don't have the guts to say what you really feel. I think if you keep trying to pin him to what he really means, he still won't be able to articulate it, he just hasn't got it in him, I doubt he understands himself, he may know at times he's cheesed off, but doesn't understand why, so asking him isn't going to work.
It says more about his failings than yours, he's just deflecting his own inadequacy by putting it all on you. At every joke, I'd not respond back, not take it personal, but not give it back either, it's then just a few words that don't carry on to anything. Think you'll realise how dull he is once every joke falls flat.

[WhiteVixen]

Relationships are HARD. They are like climbing a mountain range with obstacles and ups/downs.

Jeez no, they are not supposed to be this hard! I’ve been with my husband 12 years, married nearly ten, and it has certainly not been ‘obstacles and ups/downs’ for us!

OP this guy has you right on the hook. Convinced it’s all your fault with your ‘instability’ and ‘over sensitivity’. Unable to take a ‘joke’ (it’s not a joke unless everyone’s laughing). Pretty sure your therapist is dying to tell you to tell him to take a hike.

[1WildTeaParty]

It is pretty normal for a partner to stick up for you - politely- rather than to aim another 'kick'.

It is not wrong to be sensitive. Don't change. I'd guess that if you do, the jokes and teasing will just get more harsh.

While you are with this man who does not care about your feelings or even likes to hurt you, you are missing opportunities to meet one who will love you as you are and will want to be kind to you.

[OldEvilOwl]

My ex used to be like this - everything was always a 'joke'. I told him jokes are supposed to be funny though so its obviously not a joke. you should have left sooner

[Clementinewine]

Thank you @ChristmasFluff for that advice and the link. I am feeling too tired and run down to read it all now but will try later!

Yes that is what I think @1WildTeaParty so no matter how much I try to just be less sensitive, I still feel it isn't right. And I agree when the neighbour makes a joke and he joins in or laughs. It annoyed me once as I witnessed the neighbour tease another female neighbour, then another male neighbour who was there (it's very much a community here) defended her politely, and I was just thinking wow wouldn't it be nice to be defended even just from a silly joke, rather than just have my boyfriend join in or laugh at it too.

[1WildTeaParty]

The 'jokes' and comments hurt you - and he knows this.
Your sensitivity is something that a loving partner would note and react to... he shouldn't just carry on. Doing so is mean - and deliberately so even if the things that upset you are not obviously insulting.

It is even more typical of a bully that he joins up with someone else to hurt you. A loving partner would defend and protect you - from whatever hurts you. Your feelings would be important to him.

[ChristmasFluff]

Oh, I bet they are all about 'banter'! Abusers always are.

Just that one line tells you all you need to know - "he was pretty much laughing at me even though I was upset". Would you do that to someone you cared about? Would you even do it to someone you didn't like? THAT is why you are unsuited. Only abusers will sit and laugh at someone they say they love who is crying.

This will be an article that may be difficult for you to read, because it challenges your description of what you feel for him as being love.

blog.melanietoniaevans.com/is-it-possible-to-truly-love-a-narcissist/

Don't be put off by the title - I think you will see how it applies to you, whatever you partner is or isn't.

[Clementinewine]

@backseatcookers it is hard to hear, as we have discussed moving in and all the rest and he has seemed like he wanted that.

He has tried to be supportive with me with work things, my general instability/mental health, but he can be a bit inconsistent with it. When one of my cats died recently he was a bit sympathetic but ultimately it was, well that's just life.

At the same time perhaps I am not always supportive enough of him either. But it is hard if he won't communicate any issues. He would rather not text me for a few days then say something is up. I appreciate perhaps I am also not that easy to discuss things with.

But yes I agree I am not always honest with my communication either, like the example. Trying to minimise or reframe to avoid fallout.

I tried to avoid fallout another time a few weeks back when he said something I found extremely patronising. I didn't say anything and kept it in but ultimately it was on my mind for days and I withdrew a lot.

@1WildTeaParty it is early days for my therapy and I am not yet 100% sure she is the right one for me yet. I have considered bullying. It just seems like because the jokes and comments aren't usually obviously insulting, then really it probably is just me being too sensitive to teasing and overreacting.

He also likes to pair up with our mutual neighbour if we are outside chatting and tease me, although that does not happen often, and usually the neighbour instigates it. The neighbour is alright but a bit of a twit sometimes I think. Shares this same idea of humour just being teasing people a lot.

[1WildTeaParty]

Jokes between couples are fun. They do not to hurt one party however sensitive they are.

'Teasing' between couples is also fun. It differs from abuse/insult because it is engaged in (with joy) by both parties.

If one person in the couple is hurt then something has gone wrong.

Either the joker is a bit inept or insensitive to the one they love (and can do better next time)
OR
It is use of the terms 'teasing' /'joking to minimise and disguise a desire to hurt and humiliate.

He won't apologise if he enjoys hurting you or having the power to make you take the blame each time.

Is your therapy helping you to recognise and stand-up to bullying? I think that he won't approve of it if it starts to succeed.

[backseatcookers]

I was only saying an I right for him, as I don't think he would respond well if I frame it as are we right for each other. Because the focus is usually on me and me causing issues.

You second guess and reframe what you actually mean when you talk to him about your feelings in order to try and get a more positive reaction from him or minimise fall out. In doing so, you are not therefore having an honest conversation which is unhealthy.

It hurts to see the suggestion that he wouldn't be heartbroken if we broke up, as he doesn't care as much. He says he loves me. It hurts to consider that he just doesn't care as much.

He flippantly threatens ending it in arguments, he doesn't show the protective nature a partner should and he is allowing you to do all the heavy lifting emotionally in the relationship. He may well love you but he is not on the same page as you and while I understand it's hard to hear, it's painfully obvious he doesn't feel the same as you do because he's allowing this unhealthy dynamic to continue and you to go to counselling to try and change things when it clearly isn't working.

We do have our differences, but the affection part, yes I do want more affection at those difficult times, but the rest of the time he is very affectionate

But those difficult times are what matters, surely? Do you really think he could emotionally support you if a serious life event happened, or there was a major health issue? He doesn't sound resilient or kind enough to do so.

There are many good things about him though and I know he would say the same about me, there are good things about our relationship together, which is why it makes it so much harder to accept that it is probably better to walk away.

Sometimes there isn't a goodie and baddie in a relationship, I think we are fed that line when people say stuff like 'men are bastards' when the reality is everyone has good and bad parts but sometimes two people who aren't compatible end up bringing out the worst in each other and it turns toxic. It really does sound like that's what's happened here.

[Clementinewine]

Thanks @backseatcookers I know you talk sense.

I was only saying an I right for him, as I don't think he would respond well if I frame it as are we right for each other. Because the focus is usually on me and me causing issues.

It hurts to see the suggestion that he wouldn't be heartbroken if we broke up, as he doesn't care as much. He says he loves me. It hurts to consider that he just doesn't care as much.

We do have our differences, but the affection part, yes I do want more affection at those difficult times, but the rest of the time he is very affectionate, and he has always said how much he likes how affectionate I am, as previous girlfriends haven't always been that affectionate. So I do think we are on the same level in terms of affection needs and wants, just not when we are arguing.

I agree that in the other points we do differ a lot, and we can't expect each other to change. There are many good things about him though and I know he would say the same about me, there are good things about our relationship together, which is why it makes it so much harder to accept that it is probably better to walk away.

[backseatcookers]

I messaged today and said I will probably try to see my therapist tonight and I am still feeling a bit upset and thinking things through and I just wonder if I am right for him. He said don't think that way, yes try and see the therapist.

This is such an unhealthy dynamic - why are you deciding if you are right for him instead of deciding if you're right for each other?

It sounds like he would be happy to sort of keep going how things are in this exhausting (for you) cycle of a row, calm bit, row, calm bit whereas you need some validation that it won't always be like this.

He's ok with how things are now because he doesn't care as much as you do, so if it ends he won't be heartbroken he knows he'll be ok but he knows you'll clutch at straws to try to stay together. It's all just so unhealthy.

You don't like fundamental parts of each other - communication styles, sense of humour and sensitivity levels. You're incompatible on those fronts at least to a decent degree. Those are the things that pull a couple through tough times, without them it's lonely and shit being because it means you're with the wrong person.

You want him to be something he's not - someone who is more affectionate, spoils you a bit and offers words of validation without being asked for them. That's not who he is.

He wants you to be someone you're not - someone who isn't sensitive to teasing, who finds teasing funny and who won't get wound up or grumpy when he goes too far. That's not who you are.

This is an unhealthy relationship. Do you really want to be with him for the long haul? And if the answer is 'yes if we both change' then you can write it off, because the bits of you that are clashing are deeply rooted personality and character traits.

You're both just bad for each other, you'll be wasting your money in counselling if the goal you have for it is to make this relationship work. Your goal should be to be willing to acknowledge and accept the relationship is unhealthy, end it and learn from it so you can have healthier relationships in future.

I feel for you I really do but I want to shake you because I've been in relationships like this and wish someone had shaken me - it doesn't have to be this hard!

[Clementinewine]

Another technique he has sometimes used to end an argument or "resolve" it or, I feel, to ensure I don't raise anything or get too annoyed, is just saying let's just end it then, he has done that since early on.

So yesterday I said during the argument are you going to break up with me now. Not that mature I realise. But it always seems to be on the table and has been a suggestion he pulls out occasionally since the early days and early arguments.

He is almost 50, never been married (fair enough really though as I am not sure about marriage myself), not had a relationship longer than 3 years. But everything is all my issues, me overreacting, me going on and on.

[Clementinewine]

Also no suggestion of him attending the therapy. He said he was once depressed, given drugs and suggestion of therapy, but he did not take the pills and didn't do the therapy, he just "got over it" himself.

But I am expected to go to therapy to really help me, and obviously as a result, help the relationship.

[Clementinewine]

We @SoulofanAggron he is always the one the decides when a discussion/argument should end, or if it is worth arguing about. Like he did yesterday and I did imply that of course yes he is the boss and according to him that is it, nothing to discuss. Perhaps I was immature in saying that but that is how I felt.

Confident in arguments then yes, perhaps. Crazy making as well, makes me feel like it anyway. When I reacted with the slave thing and getting upset he also immediately reacted, he also immediately got angry. It wasn't just me.

I know what is the point of this analysis, just end it and forget it etc etc, but I at least want to get it clear in my head when I speak to my therapist, and I want to get it clear in my head what has been going on.

[Clementinewine]

Thanks @heartache590. He is aware that I don't always like the jokes. He said it is because I don't react normally.

I know it may confuse him as sometimes I laugh at the jokes and sometimes I don't. I suppose it depends on our moods that day. Or just on the actual "joke" itself. There is a difference between teasing me about something silly I may have said, to teasing me about not getting him coffee in the morning, as it felt like it had something else behind it, but yes perhaps I overreacted.

Yes basically he is aware in answer to your question that I can be sensitive to the jokes. I could say to him, well if something like that happens again, it is better to have a hug etc to try and calm it down rather than laugh at me or say here we go again.

[SoulofanAggron]

I know perhaps he dislikes arguments and conflict

He seems very confident when having an argument actually. It's not like he doesn't say his peace and more. Then only apologize when there was violence (it was violence.)

I am still left always confused and upset and like basically I should just not have an issue with anything or get annoyed with or raise anything.

This is what happens in abuse. He's trying to control what you feel able to say.

[heartache590]

And by spell it out. I mean literally 'when i do this, please do that'

[heartache590]

And there is your solution.
Men are idiots. I am one so i am qualified to give that opinion. If you dont spell it out, then he doesnt know.

Have you ever told him you need him to validate your feelings by giving you a cuddle, or that you know he is joking but you are really sensitive right now and need love/support instead? Indeed, has it ever been suggested that he attends your therapy session?

[Clementinewine]

@Opentooffers we are playful a lot of the time. Sometimes I can indeed laugh at the pretty constant teasing. But neither of us were in great moods this weekend.

I have suggested to him seriously today maybe I am just not the right person for him. He has said don't think like that, see the therapist.

[Clementinewine]

*regarding the validatio nof my feelings, I should also add, ideally it would just happen at some point whenever, rather that not at all, which is often also the case.

[Opentooffers]

You were being sensitive, you asked him first if he wanted you to be his slave, he only said the same thing back to you, and usually it would all be a joke and left at that. However, this is a symptom and shows you are generally not happy in this relationship, it's all bickering and not ayful and happy, so what's the point, just find someone who makes you feel good and secure about yourself, he's not the right guy for you.

[Clementinewine]

Hi @heartache590 I think you have it spot on. Yes I want some validation, rather than to be told I am just going on and on, or cannot take a joke. Ideally the validation would happen during or shortly after an argument or discussion, not maybe a few days or weeks later if/when I try to have a reasonable discussion about it.

Yes, it is causing me anxiety and upset.

Really the hand thing wasn't aggressive, but it was during an argument and took me by surprise as nobody has ever done that. I didn't feel it was particularly cute. It just seemed like I wasn't allowed to talk.

Maybe I do go on too much and he doesn't know how to calm it down, but putting his hand over my mouth, or telling me I can't take a joke, or saying "here we go again", or laughing at me when I am upset, none of that helps. None of it helps at all and I do recall saying to him "well you are winding me up more by doing this" during the argument when he was going on as usual about me getting angry.

I mean I can see the whole thing is so bloody ridiculous. Just so disappointed. In myself too yes, I accept my faults but in him also, I don't know, maybe I expect too much. He is almost 50! Over a decade older. I don't know.

[heartache590]

Relationships are HARD. They are like climbing a mountain range with obstacles and ups/downs.

Covering your mouth is all about the non-verbal. It is different if it is done with aggression vs Bridget Jones gentle style as 'cute' to get you to stop talking. We cant judge that for you.

I think you are over analysing the situation. What you are looking for is validation from your boyfriend regarding your feelings, and this is what is lacking. It doesnt matter if what he is doing is reasonable to us/third parties, what matters is how does it make you feel?

It is causing you anxiety, that much is clear. A therapist, with your consent, will refer you into relationship counselling which isnt about a relationship in distress - it is about understanding each other better.