Is this cheating

[MECmad]

Please don't flame me. Here for genuine advice on what to do for the best for all parties involved.

Marriage has been drifting on for years, nearly split on a number of occasions but put the problems under the carpet & carried on. During shutdown, things came to a head & we agreed to separate. We (H) decided that we would not tell people (including the DC) until lockdown was over. Since then we have been living separately in the same house.

Since then, a new guy stated where I work. We get on really well and started swapping flirty text messages. I have been honest with him about the situation between me & H. Nothing else as happened although if it wasn't for lockdown I'm not sure that would be the case.

H has found out about the text messages and kicked off this morning. On the one hand he accepts that we had already agreed to split before the other man started work with me however H has accused me of cheating. I am concerned that he is now going to tell everyone we split as I cheated on him but I don't think that is the case - we had already agreed to split. I get that it probably doesn't look good that I've been texting someone else but we are not together.

I think H wants to come across as the victim in this and make me look the bad guy.

How do I handle this?

[suggestionsplease1]

@WakingUp55643

Sorry to jump on your post *@MECmad* but I have sort of a similar question. Myself and DH have had no physical relationship for almost 10 years, I told him at the end of last year that I have no romantic feelings for him, and never will. We've talked and not got anywhere and we're rumbling along in limbo. We've lived pretty much separate lives for years, and I feel like I'm just a mum, working, running a house, and nothing else. Someone came along and blew me away, we started seeing each other, and I so want to start again with this person as I am so unhappy in my marriage. Am I cheating? I guess I am, but I'm not having two relationships. One man has my heart, the other has a piece of paper and a ring on my finger. I know that sounds terrible and harsh, and I do hate feeling this way, and I'm trying to convince myself I'm not a terrible person. My counsellor knows all about it and is very supportive, which I didn't expect. Maybe she has to be! Anyway, just wondering what people think about this?
(Sorry again *@MECmad*)

Got to say, I would consider this cheating yes. You have not clearly ended your relationship by the sounds of it - why are you not pursuing a divorce?

You both need to have that clarity of understanding that the relationship has ended (and it only takes you to say that clearly to him - you don't need him to agree to it) - but if you haven't got that, then you are cheating.

Cheating is more than the relationship with someone else, it's the lying, the deceit, the making a fool of the other person who is still operating on the understanding that they are in a marriage/ relationship, which is as much of a betrayal.

[MECmad]

@WakingUp55643 - don't apologise. I can relate to the position you are in although I had already made the decision to separate before OM came on the scene. If I hadn't, I'd probably have written your post. Have you made any decision regarding your marriage?

For me, I just know that I need to be out of my marriage. I had hoped to do this amicably for DD but not sure H sees it that way. When we sat and talked he did agree that we were living separate lives. I think he wants to punish me for pulling the plug on his nice lifestyle (I earn more) and losing the house he sees as a status symbol. He's made no effort to fight for me or DD.

[WakingUp55643]

Sorry to jump on your post @MECmad but I have sort of a similar question. Myself and DH have had no physical relationship for almost 10 years, I told him at the end of last year that I have no romantic feelings for him, and never will. We've talked and not got anywhere and we're rumbling along in limbo. We've lived pretty much separate lives for years, and I feel like I'm just a mum, working, running a house, and nothing else. Someone came along and blew me away, we started seeing each other, and I so want to start again with this person as I am so unhappy in my marriage. Am I cheating? I guess I am, but I'm not having two relationships. One man has my heart, the other has a piece of paper and a ring on my finger. I know that sounds terrible and harsh, and I do hate feeling this way, and I'm trying to convince myself I'm not a terrible person. My counsellor knows all about it and is very supportive, which I didn't expect. Maybe she has to be! Anyway, just wondering what people think about this?
(Sorry again @MECmad)

[Dozer]

Get some legal advice.

[MECmad]

To be fair to H he does do more than his share around the house. He seems to think that as I earn more than him, he won't need to pay towards DD when we move. He will continue to be the Disney Dad he is now. To be honest, that doesn't bother me as he won't be in my house undermining my rules.

I only told H about the texts as he asked me outright. I wouldn't have gone to him and rubbed his nose in it. I also felt that lying would have been wrong and made it look like more than it is.

I've always believed honesty to be the best policy. H has known that I have been unhappy for years. I have sat & talked about it with him on many occasions. He agrees we need to put more effort in & then carries on as usual. My gut feeling is that he thought I would 'get over it' and go back to normal in a few weeks & didn't realise that I have had enough.

I will always put DD first & it's reached the point where I've realised I'm teaching her that this is a normal relationship. It's not. I want her to grow up believing that whilst her happiness isn't the only consideration in life it is an important one.

H knows I want to make this as easy for DD as possible & I think he wants to exploit that. I think he is also jealous of our relationship and will try and paint me as the villain in all this. He can't see that she should be left out of it and that it is between us.

I'm not sure what game he is playing but I'm not going to bite. I'm not sure I can carry on like this for the next few weeks but we have a plan on when we are telling DD so I need to stick to it (there are reasons we aren't telling her right now) but it's hard. I think once it is out in the open it will be easier to deal with.

I'm not expecting it to be easy but I think once the divorce is started, house is on the market etc. H will realise that I mean it this time. The texts from OM are immaterial - yes they make me feel good but I'm not looking on this as a replacement relationship. I've been honest with OM that timing is not great and he has agreed we paly it by ear and take it slowly. Might work, might fizzle out. Not on my priority list right now.

Just looking forward to being able to relax in my own home with DD & the dog.

[Moopoohootoo]

I think its a bit shitty you are doing that before telling people you are splitting.

[LemonTT]

The biggest impact this will have is to your relationship with your daughter. Even if she accepts your version she may feel hurt that you moved on from her family construct before she even knew it was at threat. And you did.

The reality is that although you decided to split you and your husband agreed that this would need to be put on hold during lockdown because of your daughter. It’s right to put her needs first as she didn’t ask for any of this. All you both had to do was sit tight and keep your noses clean for a few months for her sake. I would say that meant not getting involved with someone else because with that comes trouble, confusion and complications.

I can see why she will feel betrayed by your behaviour, even that which you describe. It is very likely she will believe that this was a pre existing affair. Most people will. No matter how much you protest. It’s going to look bad.

You got with someone before the world and your daughter were informed of the split. Not a good look.

[Vinosaurus]

I don't subscribe to the "you're still married so you're cheating" idea. If you decided to split it doesn't matter what a piece of paper says, you've split, physically, emotionally and practically (to the extent they lockdown has allowed).

If the date you and your husband mutually decided to split and the date you started messaging the work guy do not overlap I believe you're in the clear.

[Ughmaybenot]

It’s not cheating but it was a very odd decision to tell him exactly what you’re up to. It seems insensitive and surely you knew it would bother him. It’s certainly muddied the waters going forward anyway.
Regardless, well done for having that further conversation with him, and establishing a plan.

[Vodkacranberryplease]

but obviously that's not including food, housing etc. As long as you don't look like you are wanting to be a 'lady of leisure' I'm sure he will get it. He sounds hurt but reasonable.

A spot of time doing all housework and childcare (if this is an issue) will put paid to the 'sitting around eating bon bons and watching the soaps' idea of motherhood men have drummed into them will help.

You have dumped him and his ego will be pretty bruised. Right now some extra effort will probably result in extra effort from him.

Once you've moved out you can date away. I don't believe in women having to sacrifice their love lives for children - men don't why should we?

[Vodkacranberryplease]

I would cut him a little slack right now and keep talking. The way you did about the OM. He's got a lot of emotions to process and divorce is hard. You're stuck together so if you can sit down together and talk through this there's a chance that you can have the dream - amicable divorce and no fucking around with money.

I've seen it done. It's great for everyone except solicitors. So I'd be inclined to start the conversation with "ive been thinking and I think we should try our best to keep our money away from the clutches of solicitors" and go ftom there.

Men have a way of forgetting how hard children are to look after and how much they cost. So draw up a long list of their expenses and if you can leave him in sole charge for a day or two then he will get it. You could say 'let's reverse roles for a week so we can understand what the other goes through'

They feel like money lost in the divorce is 'theirs' and is going to you for you to fritter away on handbags, and other men! So a list/budget of food, utilities, school stuff, presents, dentists etc for the children. Then split the rest 50/50. He can choose to pay half the items on the kids list

[MECmad]

Thanks @Jsku. My plan is to be single with DD for a while. The attention from OM is welcome in giving me a confidence boost & whilst I like him, way too soon to be thinking of anything other than that.

H is now being an arse & making me uncomfortable. He lied to me about where he went to last night and dropped enough comments to indicate that he had lied, almost like he wanted me to challenge him on it. I didn't as I don't care where he was as we are over and he can do what he likes. When he realised I wasn't going to bite, he became overly chirpy and friendly. This morning he followed me round while I was getting ready for work which was unnerving.

[Jsku]

I disagree with Thereisabear...
Mostly about your suggestion that you need to put your life on hold and not date.
Obviously - you aren’t ready to jump into another committed relationship and rediscovery she is talking about makes sense.
However, it doesn’t mean you can’t flirt, date and enjoy male company.

[Dozer]

Your relationship with another man after separating won’t make any difference to a divorce settlement. As you say, it’s unlikely to be amicable.

I would just tell the DC and other people now. Unless it’s your preference to wait for specific reasons, and not just your ex’s.

You can’t do anything about what he says to others.

[TheresABearInThere]

No matter how much you think you’ve checked out of your marriage and you’re ready to see where things go with this new guy, you’re not. You have a shit tonne of stuff to deal with over the next 1-2 years especially if the divorce gets nasty. You need to find yourself again as a separate person before considering someone else. It’s not fair to new guy either to put him through the ending long term relationship, you don’t yet know if it will be reasonably smooth sailing as much as divorces can be, or a massive repeating car crash with multiple fatalities.

New guy needs to be put on the back burner, if you can meet as friends fine but if it’s flirty no. One thing at a time and learn to be alone, rediscover who you are again. Later, think about the type of traits you’d want from a future new partner, but not yet. If new guy is right he’ll still be there in a year or two.

[Franwith2and1]

I am going through a divorce and none of this will make a difference. As you say he will tell everyone you cheated so be it. My ex was certainly in an emotional affair with my sons old class assistant yep and he was still there, denied and said they were just friends. I had told everyone we had split so he hadn’t. It was only when I finally left as he wouldn’t that he told his family and then of course it looked like I had walked out when actually he had ended the marriage months before but wanted to carry on as mates! So when I met someone new and he wheeled her out months later it all looked like the blame was on me. That’s down to him and his family, I say do as you like but it needs handling right for the children’s sake.

[MECmad]

Thanks all for your comments.

Had a long chat with H last night. I explained that I could see why he was upset but that I didn't believe that I had done anything wrong. He asked me to stop contact with OM until after the divorce has gone through, house is sold etc. I have refused on the basis that it neither of us should be expected to put our lives on hold for potentially 2 years. TBH H admitted that it had hurt him as he thought he would be the one to move on first!

I have agreed to slow things down in terms of texting & that I won't meet up with OM until we have told family etc. about the split. We talked about timelines etc and have a plan which is good.

I think some of the PP were right that even if this hadn't happened, the chances of an amicable divorce are slim. While we were able to talk calmly and rationally last night, this will be different when it comes to money. We clearly have different priorities when it comes to the divorce - mine is the kids, his is money.

[MarkRuffaloCrumble]

It won't make any difference to your divorce settlement because fault is immaterial, it will just make life more uncomfortable and potentially cost you more in solicitor's fees if he argues every point. Probably best to either calm things down or go seriously underground with it until the divorce is done.

Exactly - he might be more awkward about things now, but tbh even with the best will in the world, most couples who start out thinking they’ll have an amicable divorce don’t! Emotions and money, security and stability are all on the line and it gets to you, so if it wasn’t this it would be something else. Don’t worry about it.

As a PP said, Legally it would be adultery if you had sex with an OM while still married. I split with my XH and met DP six months later. It took me 2 years to get the divorce finalised, in which time I changed the reason from unreasonable behaviour to ‘separated for 2 years’ just because I wasn’t angry any more and didn’t need to list all his annoying habits! But technically he could have divorced me for adultery and I offered him that option after a year, to speed things along!

[suggestionsplease1]

I don't think it's cheating, but I still get why he might feel hurt, and he might have questions over the timeline of things that you can actually probably easily disprove from what you've said.

I think actually your discussion is probably pretty healthy - you had an open conversation - he asked, you told frankly as you felt you had nothing to hide. I would try to keep doing the same - open and honest and transparent communications as far as possible. If you are clearly separated you have a right to move on as you please, although take some care if you are still under the same roof!

It is secretiveness, lying, undermining actions, treating a partner/ex partner with contempt that generates the ill-will in separations, divorces to my mind.

[MMmomDD]

OP - just take a breath and try not too panic.
Most divorces start with hope of keeping things amicable - and then it falls apart when money start getting discussed. So - you dating has nothing to do with anything.
And - so - don’t stop living your life to make your Ex happier. It’s impossible anyway.

In your place I’d not even discuss it with him anymore - and if he raises it - I’d tell him that it’s none of his business as you are separating. Instead - I’d offer to talk about practicalities of divorce - who and when to file.
He does NOT get to comment on who you talk to, or what you talk about.

You can’t control what he will say to people. He’ll have his story. You’ll have yours. People who love you will listen to you. His friends will take his side.
Your kids will (when old enough) will make up their own minds. They probably know that things weren’t right anyway.
It’ll all be OK.

[Somethingkindaoooo]

Not cheating, but not wise ( for yourself and new guy), and not very kind to your ex

[Windmillwhirl]

You have no control over what he says. You need to be strong and stop worrying about what he may or may not do. Youd agreed to separate. You then shared messages with someone. You haven't even "been" with the other guy.

Your ex is being difficult because he is surprised and maybe a little hurt. He will get over that.

[MECmad]

To be fair, H didn't go through my messages. He noticed that I was on my phone a bit more than usual and asked me. I told him as I didn't think I was doing anything wrong!

I am concerned that he will try and paint me as the bad guy when that isn't the case. I've spent years asking him to put more effort in to our marriage.

I think a PP was right - it's hurt his ego & maybe this has realised that I mean it this time.

[amillionwishes]

Genuinely curious, those that think it's cheating as the OP is still married to her stbxh... are people supposed to wait until the divorce comes through before they're allowed to date again or they'll be classed as "cheaters"? What a ridiculous notion. My ex cheated on me A LOT then with all the tinder shagging he did after we split 🙄