Is it wrong to end a relationship when you have dc and there's no abuse?

[NancyDrewAPicture]

I've seen a couple of threads recently where posters have said how damaging it is for children and it's made me confused. I grew up in an abusive home and always told myself that I'd never stay with someone "for the sake of the children", but my partner is not abusive and our children will be devestated if we split up.

These are the reasons I want to leave:
I've felt unhappy and neglected for years. Starting with when DC was born. He encouraged me to give up my job, which I did and that was my choice but I was unhappy with the decision and regret it. Every time I mention looking for work he tells me I don't need to, we don't need the money (we don't). Pre-covid he was going to start WFH a few days a week. I asked him which days because on those days he told me he would be able to do school runs so I wanted to find work that would coordinate with that. He kept being vague and fobbing me off and again would say I don't need to worry about working. Not the end of the world, I could still look for a job and arrange childcare but his lack of cooperation and support frustrates me. Then covid happened and that's put that on hold for now.

Another reason I felt unsupported when first dc was born was his to refusal to help with housework. I was tired and recovering from a difficult birth, dc1 wasn't an easy baby, and I found it hard to keep on top of things. I suggested a rota and he swore at me (called me a c*nt, the only time he's used that word to me in our 13 year relationship) and we had a big argument and I dropped it. Nowadays he will load/unload the dishwasher and occasionally run the hoover around. He cooks for himself as he has special dietary requirements.

He has a huge amount of stuff. He will buy more stuff, like food, clothes, crockery, as well as gadgets and bits for himself, without checking if we have any in already or anywhere to put it. He has been stockpiling food and toiletries long before it was a thing, but out of laziness. I stopped putting his laundry away because I was sick of being the only one to do it. He bought more clothes rather than sort through his pile in the utility room. We moved to a bigger house four years ago and every available space is crammed with stuff. The sheer volume of things in the house gets me down. There just isn't room. I was in Sainsbury's last week looking a bowl imagining how nice it would be to live in a small, uncluttered house just me and dc, with a normal amount of crockery and a place for everything to be stored, rather than every cupboard overflowing and every shelf and available space being covered in crap.

We don't have an intimate relationship. He stopped initiating sex years ago. Then I had a relapse of a teenage eating disorder and he told me how unattractive I was, a lot. (His lack of interest began before that). Now I've put on some weight, he seems to find me attractive again but I hate the thought of sleeping with him. We don't kiss.

I think he's an irresponsible parent. He will let our DC (5 and 7) stay up late playing computer games or watching TV, then lose his temper if they're still awake at 2am and say they need medication. They aren't the best sleepers but obviously this would keep most kids awake. (This has happened when I've fallen asleep early).

That stuff aside, we get on ok, and he loves our dc and they him. We have a nice home. We even hold conversation sometimes these days (after years of him more or less ignoring me - not in a cold shoulder way, he was busy with work, golf and fishing in his free time and on his phone in bed). We can rub along fine mostly, though he can have a temper. I think he is happy. DC are happy. It's just me that's unhappy. I know some of the issues I've mentioned are quite trivial (housework and clutter) and some are my own fault (giving up my job, eating disorder). So should I suck it up, find a job and focus on that until the children are older? Truthfully I could carry on but I miss feeling wanted and loved, and I don't want him which I know is unfair on him.

[Sunshinedu]

OP reading your posts,are you sure he’s not making a bomb 💣.I think he’s a hoarder,compulsive spender,sounds controlling and has gotten lazy in his relationship.How were his parents relationships,is there any mirroring

[ThePathToHealing]

I joined just to let you know that I've been where you are. I didn't call it abuse because he never hit me. All I knew was that I hated him as strongly as I loved him (thankfully no children) however I was scared of him so I lied the entire time. We would always be friends and we just wanted different things but I was tired of being forgotten and of being diminished.

I had an eating disorder when I was with him and he would make comments about how I wasn't too thin and then ask how we could fatten me up. One of the reasons I left was because I didn't think I could reach or maintain recovery in that environment.

I completely understand the feeling that he never said I couldn't or forbids me from doing things but it's a slow conditioning. Maybe you change your behaviour because you don't have the energy to deal with a put down or the silent treatment or the banging of doors. So often his response to whatever I had done was more painful than the shame of doing the thing.

I also really understand this hard stance regarding your dc and the confusion you feel about it. I had a line that I wouldn't let him cross but everyday I felt awful for having that boundary. There is a person in your life telling you (maybe indirectly) that you can't have your way, or your own views etc. It's incredibly difficult to hold strong in those surroundings and am proud of you for maintaining your position.

I didn't feel like a real person either. I had no wishes, desires or opinions because whatever they were were wrong but I'm free now and I am finding my voice and I believe you will find yours. Being desperately unhappy is there to motivate change, it's telling you you need to be free.

My username is from a quote "the path to healing is worth the journey, I will have no regrets" and I remind myself of it every day.

[NancyDrewaPicture]

I'm just confused over what's right and what's wrong, and if I'm a bad person and if he's a bad person or I'm exaggerating things and only giving one side of the story and have wrongly lead my counsellor to believe I'm in a controlling relationship, when really it was my fault for always letting him get his way. But I don't think everything should have been so hard.

I remember two years ago really struggling with feeling like I was not a person anymore, like I didn't matter and I had nothing to say and nothing to offer. I felt like I didn't properly exist and kept wondering why I wasn't a real person like other people were. I didn't connect it to him at all, but now I am noticing that when certain thoughts come to my head, I don't hear my own true reaction to them, I think about what his reaction would be and mentally cannot think any more for myself. It makes me wonder if that's why I felt like I didn't really exist, because he was in my head and there wasn't room for me.

I know that sounds crazy and my mental health actually wasn't great at the time that I felt like I wasn't a real person, but I think it's a good sign that I've noticed "his voice" in my head now, so at least I can take steps to find my own. Sorry this might all sound a bit clichéd or something talking about finding myself etc, but that's how it feels.

I think I'm done ranting now. Sorry if anyone wasted time reading it. And like I said, it doesn't really matter because ultimately I will be leaving him regardless.

[NancyDrewaPicture]

Hi, I'm sorry to bump my old thread. I didn't want to start a new one. I'm sorry if that's the wrong thing to do. I spoke to my counsellor yesterday about my relationship and told her some of the things that have happened and how I feel and why I want to leave and everything and she gave me the name of some local domestic abuse organisations to get in touch with. It feels so overwhelming. I read this stuff and I can see so many parallels in my relationship and I can see it's wrong for someone else to have such control over another person, but it's like I just can't get my head around it.

He doesn't hit me, he doesn't phsyically stop me from doing things, it's more like he weighs me down mentally. And I don't think it's intentional, he does it out of concern mostly I think. That's the reasons he gives himself and me, and other times it's just thoughtlessness. When he makes big decisions that really should have my input but he makes them on my behalf, it's because he doesn't think. I don't think any of it is a calculated move to be controlling if you see what I mean.

Sorry I don't know what I want from this, I still plan to leave. I'm trying my best to find a job and I'm making plans and doing what I need to do. There's just a part of me that's worried that I've got this all wrong. I suppose it doesn't matter because whether or not he is controlling or abusive, he makes me unhappy and I will be leaving him. I just can't understand and feel overwhelmed by it all. He'd be horrified if he knew what people thought about him. I'm worried I'm making him out to be a worse person than he is. I'm worried about the times I've done things wrong. I have retaliated to some of his nasty words before, back when I still had the energy to try and stand my ground. I've had bad moods before. I don't think I'm like him but I don't know. I worry that everything has been my fault because I basically gave up and instead of trying to assert myself and do the things I wanted to do, I just let him have his way for an easy life. Its just that everything was a battle and I was tired of fighting all the time. It weighed me down and crushed my spirit. I keep having to remind myself I'm an adult and I'm a free person and it's ok to make my own decisions.

I'm confused too because there has been one incident I can think of in our relationship where he wanted a certain thing for our dc and I was against it and truly stood my ground on it. We are both parents and both should have an equal say so I'm not sure what it is right or wrong when our feelings conflict, but this is one of the very times I have "won", because it was about one of the DC and not just me, I cared enough to keep fighting (well the battle isn't over as he still brings it up but he knows I will not change my mind on this). And so far although he hasn't got what he wants, I feel uncomfortable that he as an equal parent isn't able to make his choice because I'm kind of blocking it. Yet he's done the equivalent to me so many times over the years and he is ok with that? He doesn't feel this discomfort? I don't understand it. I keep trying to think if I've ever done this to him before, and if I've ever stopped him from doing things he wants to do like he has me. I don't think I have but it's like I don't trust myself at all.

[Dontletitbeyou]

You said he’s never actually stopped you from getting a job , so as soon as lockdown is over , get on with sorting yourself out a job, ASAP. Make plans to move forward on your own with your DC .
Even if he tries to make it difficult for you to look for work , don’t give in. He can’t force you to stay home obviously .while he holds all the cards you’re stuck there and he knows it

[NancyDrewaPicture]

Thank you for the tip, that's a good idea. It all feels so bank handed though. I don't just mean the money but having the plan to leave without him knowing and not telling him. How do people usually do it when they want to leave someone but aren't able to right away? Do they tell them first and live together but separated until they can physically move out? I could tell him, but I can imagine what it would be like living here once I do and it wouldn't be very nice at all.

[GingerBeverage]

If he's checking the joint for outgoings add a £10 withdrawal to every in-store supermarket shop and squirrel it away. Lose the receipt before you get home.

[NancyDrewaPicture]

Thank you arethere. I'm glad your children are both doing well even if it took a bit of time for the 11 year old. I'm glad you're happier too. It must feel like a real weight has lifted.

[arethereanyleftatall]

No, it would not be wrong to end this relationship. He is awful. In fact better now, before the dc get older. I've just divorced, also no abuse, and am happy to report the kids are fine. In fact, since I'm happier, it's actually nicer for them. My 9yo literally can't care less, in fact she's excited to be getting 2 houses. 11yo it's been a bit harder for but she's mainly fine. The younger the better. Good luck x

[NancyDrewaPicture]

They probably are the right decisions, it's just that I don't have space to think through or decide things for myself, the decisions are all made without me.

Sorry to quote myself - but this is kind of a pattern. He makes decisions on things and they're always reasonable or make sense, and he's right and I can see why. It's just that there's no or minimal dialogue, things are just decided.

[NancyDrewaPicture]

I've been reading the Lundy book linked above and I will look at the freedom programme too, thank you. He isn't as extreme as the men I have read about so far in that book, and he doesn't fit any of the types of man but has traits from them all.

I've reread everything I've posted here and I'm surprised how so many of you can see he is controlling. He still is controlling I think, but the stuff that happened with my friends and with work colleagues and going out was so long ago and he does say he wouldn't be like that anymore.

There are a couple of recent things niggling at me a bit. Like he's decided that my brother is not allowed in our house ever again. He was violent and abusive to our dm and has addiction issues, so the reasoning makes sense and we have little contact anyway so it's unlikely to come up, but I feel uneasy by it. Firstly if db ever were to come here, and he has before things got very bad, he'd be on his best behaviour. He always has been when he visits us and especially in front dc who he has a soft spot for, and he wouldn't ever be left with them unsupervised. Secondly is it right for my h to make that decision, shouldn't it be my decision to make or at least a joint one? Or is it ok for him to decide because it's in the dc's best interests?

There is a similar situation with my father and I know that he would not be welcome here. He also was abusive, including CSA to me. I haven't had any contact with him in 10 years and he's never met my dc, and that probably is for the best for obvious reasons but I don't feel like I really have a say. It was my decision to cut contact with him initially, especially when I had my dc, but recently I found out he has a serious illness (though not critical) and I started to think about calling him but I thought what if he asks to meet dc? I think I would be ok with him doing so, wouldn't leave him alone with them though. I was more imagining a short visit to his house. I haven't called him and haven't spoken to h about any of my thoughts because I think he would get angry. And it's not wrong to not want your DC to be around abusive people so he is right. I just can't imagine banning various members of his family from coming to our house or meeting our dc but then his family don't have history's of being violent, sexually abusive addicts. Oh I really don't know. They probably are the right decisions, it's just that I don't have space to think through or decide things for myself, the decisions are all made without me. That's what makes me feel uncomfortable I think.

H has also been really different recently which is one of the things that made me confused. He keeps being nice to me. It's disconcerting and I don't understand it. He did snap once last week and shouted "fuck you" at me a few times before storming off, but when he came back he said felt bad about it and he went back to being nice again. It feels like he's making a proper effort to be nice to me. I just don't understand it all, I can't remember when he was last this nice and it makes me anxious because it's just so weird.

[FaithInfinity]

Oh OP. Just because he’s not as bad as your Dad doesn’t mean it’s not bad. I’m not surprised all the money is gone each month if he keeps going out and buying crap! You would be totally justified to leave.

Can I suggest you do The Freedom Programme online as a starting point? It doesn’t take long but I suspect if you do it you’ll recognise behaviours of your Dad and your H. Imagine a future where it’s a nice home, kept tidy with just you and the kids, you’ve found a job...how does that make you feel?

[Overthinker1988]

Oh Op, your updates make me so sad. You've been so ground down by him that you're constantly putting yourself down. You're not greedy or entitled and it IS your money. It's family money. You gave up your job to be a SAHM, therefore facilitating his career. You have every right to this money and like you say, it should be a partnership. I'm glad you can see that and I hope you get the strength to leave. You'll be so much happier for it.

[NancyDrewAPicture]

You haven't said, but I'm guessing you have limited financial control - is all money shared in one account with equal access?

He made his account a joint account. When I first went on mat leave I had £15k saved up and paid all the bills until the money ran out, then we switched everything over to his and he made it a joint account. I have a card but don't see the statements.

He started to pay me an allowance because I asked him to. I wanted the independence and I didn't like using the joint account because he scrutinised what I spent. He paid the allowance but got into his head that I was saving up to leave him. I wasn't, it went on things like groceries, clothes, cafés with dc, birthday presents etc. He kept quizzing me about it and getting angry. Then our mortgage temporarily increased and he said he had to move money in from his savings account to stop us getting overdrawn. He got angry again and said he doesn't spend anything on himself, he pays the bills and gives me money and has nothing left for him. It's very obvious that isn't true. I'm not a huge spender and he thinks nothing of spending a few hundred pounds on things he wants.

I said that even with the increase in mortgage (which has now gone back down), if we're spending his whole salary each month then there must be things we can cut back on because it didn't make sense. I asked if we could look at his statement and work out if there's anything we can reduce, maybe get a better gas and electric deal or maybe we are paying for things we shouldn't be. I said if it's true that he's left with less than he gives me, we need to reduce it to make it fair, but can we just have a look together. He was very angry and said I just wanted to see his statement so I could criticise him for treating himself. I said no, you can scribble things off if you want so I can't see, I only want to see what our main outgoings are on bills and things like that. He eventually said it was sensible but went off to his office and I knew that it would never happen and he didn't want me to see his bank statement. The following month I found out he had stopped the direct debit to my account for my spending money and since then I've been told to use the joint account.

He makes most financial decisions without even mentioning them to me. Things like utilities, insurance, big household purchases and so on. He once said he was going to the garage on his way out the door, and came back later with a new car having left our old one behind. He hadn't told me anything about it. I don't know if I'm right to be annoyed by this sort of stuff, but I am. It doesn't feel like a partnership and it makes me feel like a child.

I'm back to being firm on leaving him, I was just having a shaky moment. Thank you everyone who has replied. And I'm sorry all my posts have been so long. I don't get much chance to talk. I'm conscious I sound greedy and entitled over money that isn't mine, and all I can say is I really am not. I just know there's an imbalance that wouldn't be there if our roles were reversed.

[CaptainBlunderpants]

He's a lot better than my father was. That was proper abuse to my mum.

This. This is the crux of the problem. You see him as not as abusive as your father so therefore he can’t be. His abuse isn’t as bad so you should just put up with it. Your bar of what is acceptable was low to begin with. Like, but he doesn’t hit me.

As a pp said, the only level of acceptable abuse is none.

He is abusive, he sounds awful.

[BlingLoving]

Oh OP. Every single one of your updates made my heart sink more and more. I was just on a thread about why women don't divorce and had just made the point that often it's because they've been told repeatedly that THEY are the problem/it's their fault. Or that the behaviour they don't like from their husband is normal. But it's not.

I agree with others. This IS abuse. It started with him isolating you from friends, family and colleagues. He exacerbated this by insisting you not work when the DC were born. You haven't said, but I'm guessing you have limited financial control - is all money shared in one account with equal access? Or are you on an allowance that just covers the necessaries for you/the kids/the house? I'm guessing the latter.

He ensures that everything in the house is the way he likes it by shouting at you when you question anything and making it so that you don't feel you can challenge what he says or his behaviours.

He's trying to convince you the kids will see you as the bad guy. I suspect the way he spoils them with toys is part of this - he wants to be able to point to "but I always bought you what you wanted" as they get older. The good news is that I don't think this works long term. Children aren't stupid.

You need to start making sure you're protected. Get that job after lock down. Can you squirrel away money now? Start talking to friends , if you have them, or family, about what's happening. Next time the school organises a social event, go along and start trying to meet people.

[SamMarie37]

You certainly are not the bad guy here and don't let him tell you that!
He is trying to buy their affection and that will only work for so long. If you have grown up in an abusive home, you know what it's like and that you don't want that for your children.
It is also no wonder you have suffered from an eating disorder for the things he has said, he has alienated you and sounds like he has made you depressed and so lonely. I'm so sorry you are going through this, please build yourself up to leave him and stick to your plan!
It will be better for your mental and physical health, along with your relationship with your children.
I am so sorry you are going through this but you WILL get past it 💕

[IdblowJonSnow]

This does all sound abusive to be honest op.
Not healthy for you or your kids. Get out asap.

[Cambionome]

You sound absolutely crushed by him op.

[Scott72]

This resolved itself by some things breaking/me "accidentally" breaking things when he wasn't around. (I know that's bad and I should have donated them somewhere)

That's not really bad. Second hand shops tend to have far too much crockery, clothing, toys, cheap electrical stuff - all the stuff your husband apparently likes collecting. Most of it would be close to worthless. Most of it probably should just be thrown out. Although if your husband has a hoarding problem this would be actually painful for him to do, and he'd just quickly replace it with more junk.

[NancyDrewAPicture]

I have seen the Lundy book recommended to people on other threads but I never thought it would be relevant for me. I will look at everything you've sent. Thank you.

[Dery]

www.docdroid.net/py03/why-does-he-do-that-pdf

[Dery]

"Ok maybe it is abusive. I think it's because it doesn't happen all the time, and it's also because of things he says sometimes like that when the dc are older they'll realise that I am the bad guy in the relationship, and he seems so convinced of it."

What you have been describing is abusive. It doesn't happen all the time because even abusers don't abuse their partner 24/7 - no-one would tolerate that. Plus it's probably tiring to be abusive all the time.
So even abusers can and do behave well. They're still abusers. Not sure if anyone's already recommended it (they probably have) but you may find it helpful to read "Why Does He Do That" by Lundy Bancroft (www.docdroid.net/py03/why-does-he-do-that-pdf)

Also "Women Who Love Too Much" by Robin Norwood.

It's great that you are visualising a calmer, happier future enjoying mealtimes with your DC and planning how to get there. The situation you're in now is incredibly damaging for you and will also be damaging your DC so it's great that you're working towards making the split. You might find some helpful information here to help your planning: www.marriage.com/advice/separation/thinking-about-leaving-your-husband/

[NancyDrewAPicture]

Ok maybe it is abusive. I think it's because it doesn't happen all the time, and it's also because of things he says sometimes like that when the dc are older they'll realise that I am the bad guy in the relationship, and he seems so convinced of it.

With the calling me unattractive, he says he was trying to shock me into eating. Tough love he said. I know it isn't easy to see someone around you get like that but I do find it hard to forget some of the things he said. I did look awful though, I could see that too. I started to make an effort to eat as part of my leaving plan. Once I decided I wanted out I knew I'd have to change. I was getting too weak to look after myself and dc properly and couldn't even think about working in that state. I still find it hard but because I have a goal I focus on that, and think about the meal times I could enjoy with dc in future in the home I imagine us living in.

[Overthinker1988]

In what way is he not abusive? Everything about his behaviour that you've described is emotional abuse and manipulation. Just because he doesn't hit you or outright tell you that you can't do certain things doesn't mean he's not abusive. He's just doing it more subtly, in an insidious way.
He's controlling you by undermining your self esteem and making you feel anxious.
I've been there myself and I can tell you now, you are being abused, 100%.
In a normal, healthy relationship you shouldn't feel anxious about seeing friends and colleagues, your partner should be supporting your career aspirations and you should be able to speak your mind and discuss things without being sworn at and called names. Your partner shouldn't make you feel unwanted and unattractive. Please realise that this isn't a normal way to live and you deserve better.