Sperm donor? Adoption? Or......

[LockdownLiquidLunch]

........just be thankful for what we have?

Hi, I already have this running chat, but thought I'd stick it here too 🙂

First of all, I know nobody can tell us what to do and onlyweknow the answer, but honestly, this decision is driving me crazy and I just can't seem to move forward, so could really just do with some outside advice.

My wife and I were pretty much dead set on sperm donation and were due to start the process this year. We are early to mid 30's and so we wanted to get a move on.

I already have a DD from a previous relationship, who has just turned 13, so there would be a big age gap. She does herself worry about this, so that's definitely something we have taken into consideration, although ultimately, this does have to be our decision.

However, after trying desperately to get our heads around the somewhat, unusual reality, that our baby will share 50% of their genetics with a stranger, (a stranger we will be incredibly grateful to, of course!) we started to really struggle and wondered if perhaps adoption was a better route for us.

If we did adopt, we would be happy to adopt an older child - perhaps siblings, but would not consider adopting a child with severe special and complex needs, as it wouldn't be fair on my DD who will soon be starting her GCSEs. As terrible as I would feel saying this, we do need to be honest and do what is best for our family, as well as the child.

Another benefit of adopting an older child would be that our adopted DC and my DD would be closer in age and my DD would be very happy about this. That's not the only reason we would be looking at adopting an older child though.

However, we do worry about how much negative reporting there seems to be around adoption. I have read so many horror stories of people's lives being torn apart. I actually did know one personally, so I would by lying if I didn't say this is a big concern for both of us.

The other option is, I suppose, keeping the status quo. My DD is finally doing well - this has been a bit of an uphill struggle to get to this stage. DW and I are in a good place, we are financially stable and enjoying having more disposable income etc. But then actually all of those positives could also be reasons we should go ahead and have another DC, one way or another.

Another positive of staying as 3, would be having more freedom I suppose. It won't be too long before DW and I aren't tied by school dates etc and that is certainly a nice thought. Oh and sleepHow could I forget sleep?!

We are happy as 3, but I can't deny, something is missing and I ask myself a lot, if we decide not to go down either route, could that void be filled in another way? I.e, a new career or just generally throwing myself into something that I'm really passionate about. Something I've not done for a long time.

Anyway, I don't want to ramble on, so will leave it there for now, but I would really appreciate your thoughts and maybe experiences, if you can relate in any way.

TIA

[LockdownLiquidLunch]

@hellsbellsmelons, I'm so sorry. How terrible for you. Can I ask, how long ago was this?

Tbh, I don't think I was clear enough in my OP about what I mean by severe SN. You're right that adopted DCs are always effected in some way to a greater or lesser degree and in so many different ways. We do completely understand that.

By severe SN, we meant DCs who were highly unlikely to be able to live independent lives or perhaps needed a wheelchair etc, as practically speaking, our house would not be suitable.

On the donor motivation, yes, they usually do, but I suppose I would still wonder if they really meant it. I.e, would a narsasstic seed spreader, really admit to that on their form? Pretty much every one I have read have said for altruistic purposes or because they just like helping people. Of course I would love to believe that's always true!

[hellsbellsmelons]

what was their motivation to donate in the first place?
When you go through the process you usually find out why they want to do it.
There reasoning is usually written in their paperwork.
You can choose based on their reasoning.

[hellsbellsmelons]

but would not consider adopting a child with severe special and complex needs
Sorry but that is just not possible.
They are in the adoption system for reasons, usually to do with neglect, abandonment, abuse, sexual abuse, etc....
The vast majority will come with many many needs and you would need to be prepared for that.
The whole adoption process is not for everyone.
It is emotionally draining, completely eye opening and it took an awful lot out of me.
It's a long process too.
At this present time, it will probably be minimum 1 year before you even go to panel.
Just before we were offered a child, I found that my 'D'H had been cheating on me for nearly a year.
So we obviously didn't go through with it.

I would seriously consider donor sperm if that is a possibility.

[SimonJT]

@LockdownLiquidLunch Sorry I forgot to reply.

Mine was unusual, in family adoption but I’m NC with my family and hadn’t met the child nor did I know he even existed. Zero support through the process, my son had multiple social workers come and go, awful post adoption support.

[LockdownLiquidLunch]

@ToelessPobble, I wonder whether she is concerned about the impact on you if the child is only biologically related to her and not you so feels she needs to consider evening it up by the child not being biologically related to either of you.

Yes, I think there was an element of that for both of us, but that said, DW has always said that she would be happy for our DC to be biologically mine, as she knows how close she is to DD and I don't think she's ever really had that desire to carry on her genes or anything. She's not really maternal, but does loves children...if that makes sense!

I think my biggest concern with going down the donor route, would be our DC having potential identity issues in the future. I try to put myself in their shoes and wonder how I would feel if I had been conceived that way and I suppose my biggest question would be, what was their motivation to donate in the first place? I.e was it money? Altruistic reasons? Or were they just a creep who just liked the thought of spreading his seed and knocking up as many women as possible?!

My DW always says that, 'yes, they may wonder and we can reassure them obviously, but the main thing is, if they hadn't donated, then they wouldn't be here and if we do our jobs well and give them a happy and fulfilling childhood, then surely that's the main thing'.

[LockdownLiquidLunch]

@midwestsummer, thank you. Yes, we had considered this.

@SimonJT, thanks for sharing. Sounds very tough. Can I ask, did you feel prepared?

[ToelessPobble]

I guess I am wondering how your wife feels about not experiencing pregnancy, birth and parenting a child from birth? I wonder whether she is concerned about the impact on you if the child is only biologically related to her and not you so feels she needs to consider evening it up by the child not being biologically related to either of you. And why you might feel that is better for you as well? It is certainly something that needs to be discussed before going forward for adoption. As people said there is a high percentage of children who do have developmental and attachment difficulties through adoption, and that even if you adopted a very young baby there have been sufficiently clear circumstances that the parents have been assessed as unable to care for their baby and with younger children there is more uncertainty, particularly with the impact of drug and alcohol use in pregnancy but with older they have usually experiences adversity for longer. It's not an easy way round the we want the child to be equally related to each of us. That said adoption is a wonderful thing as it gives the child a real chance that they would be less likely to get staying in the care system.

[Smallpotatoooes]

It seems that you're not at the beginning of adoption you're at the beginning of even deciding whether a second child would be right for you. There's also a bit of 'pick n mix' going on where you say a young one will suit you this way but an older one might suit you that way... I'd say with adoption the question you should be asking is how can you suit the child. With an older daughter at an important phase at school who has just started to feel better after what you imply is a difficult time I would say you don't have the capacity to absorb the huge emotional requirements an adopted child would likely need from you. There'll be a limit to it and that limit will be when it adversely effects your daughter. I just feel like that limit might not fit with adoption at the moment.
If you feel you're not finished having children in your life and you want to have a positive impact on children who have had difficult beginnings could you look into fostering or adoption after your DD has grown up a bit more and moved out? It would give you some time to really know what you all want and what you can give as a family.

[SimonJT]

As an adoptive parent, having an adopted child that doesn’t have complex needs would be very unusual.

I met my son when he was 18 months old, he’s now four (five in June!).
He has
-huge issues around food, he would eat until he was sick, I can’t put food in the bin or he will eat it, he eats out of the bins at school. He finally keeps out of the cupboards, but for a long time all food had to be locked away.
-attachment difficulties, he only trusts other adults or children if I am there or if I have spent a considerable time with my son and that person. As a result when he goes to school (well, before lockdown) he would scream all the way to school, sometimes he would get so upset when I had left he would vomit and/or wet himself.
-destructive behaviours when alone, if he wakes up in the night he usually comes to my room, other times he will rip things up, pick off wallpaper, wee on the floor, harm himself

That is just a small snapshot, it’s also fairly mild for an adopted child.

You need to do some decent training in trauma and the effects of it, especially ACEs.

[rvby]

Frank feedback about a decision that would impact a vulnerable child is not nastiness op.

[midwestsummer]

I wonder if fostering might be an idea OP? There are a range of different types of fostering including permanent. It would give you a chance to support other dc but is more flexible than adoption.

Otherwise I might be inclined to count my blessings and plan what to do with the freedom you will have in a few years.

[LockdownLiquidLunch]

@Stinkyjellycat, thank you - I will. Helpful you say? Sounds good 👍. Hopefully I will be allowed to ask questions there about something I am still learning about, without being jumped on. Seriously though, thank you for the sign post

@WhatWouldYouDoWhatWouldJesusDo, thank you. Very good points.

@lakeswimmer, that's so sad. I have read similar. It's heartbreaking. What is the answer?

@rvby, to clarify AGAIN, I never said that I thought it would be easy or that specifically, adopting a 2 to 5 year old DC would be plain sailing. Nowhere have I said this, but that doesn't fit with your point now, so I suspect you will just become nastier.

[Healthyandhappy]

My mums friend used to be married to a man had 5 kids. Became a lesbian and is in a relationship and the other lady didnt have kids but has health conditions so mums friend had another baby using sperm donor (turkey baster) from mums husband who doesn't have children. Works great no issues no one knows

[Healthyandhappy]

Sorry I've missed read it not realised same sex couple. Sperm donor or family friend

[Healthyandhappy]

Why do u not want a child with your genetics ?

[crispysausagerolls]

I would just do the sperm donation. You have a daughter already so let your DW be the carrier then you have both been able to experience the same/have your genetics passed down 🤷🏻‍♀️

[rvby]

@LockdownLiquidLunch dude if you've already decided you are v sensible and have it all figured out, then don't ask for viewpoints.

You're talking about adopting a child of 2-5 years of age as if it will be smooth sailing? I'm really sorry, if that's your impression you're undereducated and naive. Attachment forms in the first 1-2 years of life. Attachment issues have their genesis in that time period. A child of 2 can be a ticking time bomb of special needs that you seem to be woefully uneducated on. I'm not trying to be uncompassionate to that hypothetical child. I'm say that a child of 2-5 who has been fostered etc may have very deep attachment disturbance and needs a family that puts her first and is ready for very significant challenges as she grows up.

The fact you wonder out loud if you should just change jobs etc to fill the void? Triple red flag.

But again, if you've got it figured out, then why are you here asking for viewpoints?

[lakeswimmer]

OP any child you adopt is very likely to have severe psychological needs regardless of possible disabilities. I really don't think you should consider it with another child in the house. Any kind of adverse childhood experience, even at a very early age, is likely to result in a child with a lot of challenges. (My work is connected to troubled families and children so I'm aware of the difficulties).

I read a recent thread on the MN adoption page which was heartbreaking. The poster had adopted siblings who had a very difficult start in life and by late teens the older one was uncontrollable, violent and very unhappy - despite 10 years of unconditional love from her adopted Mum. From the response of others on the thread - this isn't unusual but she didn't have other children outside the two she'd adopted.

[WhatWouldYouDoWhatWouldJesusDo]

Having any child is a case of Russian roulette tbh........even adopting a child that's been removed at birth could well have issues with attachment later on. You just don't know.

In the same way a birth can go wrong and you end up with a child who has life long needs......I say go for it. But weigh up the ever present risks.

[LockdownLiquidLunch]

@rvby, so because I have concerns and questions, like ALL adopters at the beginning and probably throughout, I am somehow "not in the right headspace" to be an "all in" parent when it comes to adopting a DC?

I see.

[EineReiseDurchDieZeit]

No, I don't mean to say that saying "no SN" is unusual at all it isn't

But by that I was assuming by "no SN" you meant say children with diagnosed disability, what I was saying is, that even without a diagnosed disability, children who have been removed from families unable to care for them face complex difficulties as a result

If you are looking to adopt an older child with absolutely no difficulties at all, then I'd say you'd have a short and unsuccessful interview with your local authority

I wish you well.

[OnlyFoolsnMothers]

Does your wife want a child with her genetics?

[Stinkyjellycat]

OP come over to the adoption board. We are a helpful bunch. I have an adopted 3 year old whom we adopted at 8 months. She’s the love of my life and amazing in every way. She’s bright, funny, loving and has no attachment issues. Best choice we’ve ever made.

[LockdownLiquidLunch]

@EineReiseDurchDieZeit, well I don't know everything, no, as we are right at the beginning of this process, but I haven't said at any point that I expect a child to perfectly slot into our lives, so I do think 'naive' is harsh. We are just right at the beginning.

However, I do believe that stating that you wouldn't consider adopting a DC with severe SN, is certainly not unusual.

And with your last point, no, that's not really correct. I said that my DD was worried about the age gap. I never said that I believed an adopted DC would be easier for my DD.

[AgentJohnson]

Children don’t come with guarantees and your aversion to upsetting your DD just makes the addition of another child riskier.