Handhold -Told H I want a divorce, the rise and fall I am rising.

[awesmum]

A long update for you all as to where I currently am with DC. You'll find the link to my previous posts below.

After the courts decision with access over DD, the animosity between us remains, I still have to record all hand overs as he still becomes abusive over, well anything he feels like. Normally when faced with someone who is either rude or cross my go to is be over nice, but with him is ignore ignore ignore. I look through him and say nothing. I always make sure I say the appropriate things to DD, 'Say hello/ bye bye to Daddy.' Etc. He can not be civil, or polite, I think he has managed once since we split, that was about 6 months ago when he mentioned she had a lump on her back, I said yes, it was a chicken pox scar. Anyway, DD is doing ok, she's still struggling with the situation, she comes home with lots of anger and shouting, how I am bad, how he keeps telling her what her name is over and over and questioning her on it, how she's going to work and sitting by herself and not going to school. How she must say things certain ways and that I am wrong. Currently it is what it is, he's again tried to break the court order with access. He sets deadlines of a day when he wants me to do something, but waits weeks to do something himself. It's all building up and I am just waiting a little longer before he blows it completely. I had an abusive email from him this week about my applying for her school place without him - we had agreed in court already which school, so I applied as per the court order, apparently I was wrong.
Unfortunately I am still rendered a shaking mess when I get the abuse but I don't react and ignore, but it's still unpleasant.

The older children are doing loads and loads better, they are not without their issues, but it is fairly evident to everyone, including DD11's friends mum's that she's now learning to express rather than repress, so sometimes it will come out wrong, so there is understanding. The oldest are doing great, we have rows which is great but they are being heard, they can express and we can all make up too. Which is immensely cathartic. They both have started relationships and bring their partners and friends around all the time which is heart warming.

The divorce, I had to put my foot down and made my solicitor send the paperwork to the court, he'd had 3+ months of time to think and respond with regular reminders, so it went, and it was sent out to him, he had till yesterday to respond- we'll see if he did at all (not holding my breath). So the battle continues.

In the last few months I have bumped into a few people that we knew together, some his friends, some ours. One hid her head in the boot of a car to avoid me, one was polite but very uncomfortable and one actually turned and ran when they saw me. I can't say this hasn't hurt, it has. Still not one person has made efforts to see even if the kids are ok. My name must be absolute mud. But as much as it smarts, being away from the constant degradation and humiliation far out weighs that.

As for me, well I am loving my job, I am making more and more friends, I am having people over, I am going to the gym, I am having fun, and peace. I am not fixed yet, but getting there.

In July 2018 I stood in the middle of a dance floor with all my friends and had a moment of clarity where I stood still watching my friends and realised 'I am so unhappy.' I was so desolate.
Last weekend I stood in the middle of a dance floor and had another moment of clarity 'My daughters are safe, my son is safe, I am at peace, this is what happy is.'

2018 seems so far away I can't even comprehend what we have all been through in the last 13 months. But we are here and we are doing we winning.

[YouretheChristmasCarcass]

It's really hard, isn't it? He's supposed to park in the car park, but what are you to do if he doesn't? Obvs on handovers to him you can insist he come get her where you're standing but if he sits in his car on the street at drop off and says 'Come get her!' what choice do you really have? Getting your friend and DH to go with you is a very good idea, but looks like they'll have to stick to you like glue until you walk away.

Your fear of him will lessen with time. Especially once the legalities are done. Once you are divorced and you know 'what's what' that fear will start to lessen. Right now I think a lot of it is just the uncertainty.



It seems to me (from what I've seen on MN) that even if there are court orders in the UK they don't have a lot of 'teeth' in them. In the US there are penalties for failure to comply with a court order, up to and including jail or forfeiture of access. My friend's ex ended up in jail with a felony conviction when he refused to pay maintenance. He also lost his driver's license and forfeited his contractor's license because of it. And if he refused to return the child he knew that the police would be at his door with an arrest warrant. It would have been the same for her if she'd refused to hand the child over. It certainly stops a lot of bullshit shenanigans!

Seems in the UK all that happens is the authorities say "It's a civil matter, take them to court". IMO it actually encourages non-compliance. But that street runs two ways, I expect. I see a good number of threads where a mother has just told a father (rightly or wrongly) "I'm stopping contact, do your worst". I guess it depends on the likelihood of the other person actually having the wherewithal for a court battle.

[Mrsmummy90]

I hate him so much and I've never even met him. Hopefully one day he'll fall into a large hole and won't crawl out!

[LeeHarper5]

If he is named on the birth certificate he has Parental Responsibility and can apply for a passport for your daughter.
Not wishing to worry you but it could be he has already applied and they are requesting proof of his PR. When a father has signed the declaration, proof of PR is needed in the form of the full birth certificate or letter from mother saying she consents to the passport being issued. As far as passports are concerned the mother always has PR, father’s have to prove it.

[awesmum]

I have just spoken to the passport office to get a caveat in place that he cannot renew her passport without my authority, hopefully they will accept and come back to me if they can or can't.

[MotherOfDragonite]

What a total dick he is.

I'm so sorry you are still going through it all. I really thought because you'd been quiet it might mean things were improving. Guess I should have known better!

Good for you though - you are doing all the right things.

I do think you should speak to SS about him abusing you in front of her. It's so psychologically unhealthy and speaks volumes about the parental alienation going on behind the scenes too (which you know about indirectly from DD and her behaviour when she returns).

[awesmum]

Oh it gets better, had an email from his solicitor threatening me with court as I am not agreeing to what he says, that I don't have her best interests at heart. That if I don't agree to his terms for all holidays he's not going to return her, just do what he wants essentially.

My solicitor has said she thought having a court order in place would help but it clearly hasn't.

He's meant to return her tomorrow, but I am not sure he will. I don't know.
He just won't give.

I have said I think it will be best to go back to court, once again I am not sure if I can keep affording it though, it costs me £1000 each time and as he has all my money still it's damned hard.

I am absolutely stuck as to what to do. I don't know what to do for the best. I either have to always agree or he does what he wants anyway. My solicitor has no suggestions at all.

[NorthernLightsInWinter]

I'm so sorry, OP. He's an absolute dick and awful human being, and I can only hope that he's digging his own grave with the court in future and his own DD.

Stay strong.

[Dullardmullard]

When she is returned do not allow him access at all none let him take it back to court and site everything that he is doing and all his emails of abuse. As for the police not intervening that’s bullshit as it can be classed as a safeguarding issue because it involves a child.

You have your HV that wants it reported to SS strange how she won’t do this herself as it would in fact look better coming from her not you as they’ll think you are being spiteful.

As someone said above emergency court be ready for it and stop all access only offer supervised. I’d also remove her from the nursery for the time being and place elsewhere for her safety as I do believe he will escalate.

I always assumed all fathers had to have a letter from the mothers in regards to passports if taking the child away even if he has PR.

If it does go back to court ask for powers of arrest on the court order and explain why that’s if you don’t go for supervise contact only and this is not to be done by you. Please get someone else to do that.

[MotherOfDragonite]

"That if I don't agree to his terms for all holidays he's not going to return her, just do what he wants essentially."

Does he actually blackmail you like this, in writing? The bit about not returning her? If so I think you have got a powerful tool at your disposal if you do go back to the courts (which I think you should).

I also think you should change her nursery and stop allowing him access given what he's been doing. I think it's really quite frightening and wrong.

[NettleTea]

remember that just because it comes from a solicitor, it doesnt make it right or legal or in anyway more important than if it comes from him. He is just using the solicitor to bully you. The solicitor will write whatever he tells him to write, he is employed to do that.

BUT it does really highlight the extent that he is ignoring the court order and is willing to go with bullying you, and every time he is doing it he is providing you with more and more evidence to take before the court.

Because you WILL go back to court - but it will not be, as he thinks, to bully you into doing things his way. It will be to show his contempt of court and his inability to put his child first.

It is horrible to go through, but try to think of this stage as evidence gathering. Evidence of the abuse, evidence of the bullying, evidence from independant people who have concerns. If he fails to return her thats more evidence. Hand him all the rope and he will hang himself.

Please speak to the HV and get her to report it. Explain how you would love to do so, but you are scared of being made out to be doing it vindictively. Also anyone else who has had problems. Get your doctor to put any recommendations in writing - you may have to pay for this, but it will show that he is deliberately refusing to follow medical instructions. Get statements from the nursery to show how he is not taking her as instructed.

You have the advantage here, even if it seems as if you dont - because you have a clear court order which he is not following and because actually he is incredibly stupid. Men who think they are their own Gods generally are - they dont believe that the law applies to them and then they find out that it really does. You also have the wise women here advising you, with many years experience of dealing with these twats.

Its not unusual in these cases for the judge who issued the court order to allow hanging themselves space before a second court case. In a way they have to. There are many cases where people make claims which are untrue and so they need to follow a careful line. But judges really do not like being ignored, and so when the evidence is gathered that show how little notice has been taken of what they say, they come down hard.

[ZigZagIntoTheBlue]

Thinking of you, I hope she's returned today and you get a peaceful Christmas!

[YouretheChristmasCarcass]

It's just unbelievable to me that a solicitor wrote a letter that basically admits that their client intends to violate a judge's orders if he doesn't get his way!

I'm also surprised that your solicitor 'is at a loss'. Is there a reason your sol doesn't think this is grounds to request no contact or, at the very least, supervised contact at a contact centre? I mean, they've basically said that he intends to keep DD and not return her if you don't do exactly what he wants. I'd think that was extortion.

Is there an angle I'm not seeing in which your sol thinks that you might end up 'the worse' by taking this back to court for an emergency order?

[YouretheChristmasCarcass]

Of course, two can play at that game. If he won't return her unless you agree to his demands you can 'promise' him whatever and then say "Oh, I've changed my mind". You aren't legally bound by any 'promise' given under duress.

Disclaimer; not a solicitor.

[awesmum]

Good news he returned her to nursery today. It has been tough again, I sat up last night trying to get through to National Domestic Violence helpline, they called me back at 4am, lots of support and advice, then went to work,had to wait till I knew what was happening with DD, so was significantly wobbly all morning.

I had to tell the other children today that they may not be seeing DD at Christmas which was heartbreaking. I am so pleased it hasn't come to that.

I feel very raw again, like I have gone back months with all of this. I am a lot stronger now though and will keep on keeping on, but will be pushing the powers that be into some action with him.

He's tried some manipulation tactics with some people who've been supporting me, don't want to put them, but it's back firing.

@NettleTea you're right about the solicitor just taking instruction from him. I just keep thinking they should and would be advising him.

[RandomMess]

I honestly wonder if his solicitor is happily sending those letters complete in the knowledge you now have evidence for the court to see just how vile and unreasonable he is...

[Dullardmullard]

I’m wondering the same thing @RandomMess

[Catmaiden]

It would be good to think that his solicitor recognises he's so abbhorent that they are just doing what he says, knowing it is just yet more evidence for the court.
Are they allowed to do that? If the client insists, even though they know its not in the clients best interests?

[NettleTea]

yes, solicitors can advise but the client doesnt have to take that advice, especially if they think they are untouchable. It isnt usual for a solicitor to dismiss a client, but if they refuse to do, or tell them what they dont want to hear, solicitors often get replaced by these idiots.
My ex went through tons of them

[PressToChange]

When you get these ridiculous emails could you simply reply "I acknowledge receipt of your email" and leave it at that. Breathe and move on. I know that sounds easier to write than to actually do as I've read the whole of your story.
In my mind that shows your personal strength as you have sent a perfectly professional response (whether or not it actually sends you into a tail spin as they won't get to know!)
It should also show to that prat you're not a pushover (I know that you're not)
And also just keep them guessing a wee bit what you'll do next.
You don't actually need to do anything though as you keep following the court order as you have done with your DDs best interests at heart.
He can then keep on sending his mad requests which you can keep as evidence of his irrational behaviour.
I'm about to descend into this rabbit hole of madness after Christmas. Mine is in complete denial. It might be the first time in his life someone has said no to him...
Please remember how far you've come and how much your story has given strength to those in similar situations.

[Mix56]

So glad you got DD back, he does it intentionally of course, keeping you guessing is his Sport.
Unbelievable that he still takes DD into his office each time. (Does he smoke BTW ?) Surely this cannot be deemed safe. appropriate environment for a little girl.

[YouretheChristmasCarcass]

Yes, so happy she's home, safe and sound.

To my knowledge a solicitor/lawyer can do whatever a client wants so long as it isn't illegal in itself. However, many will refuse to do something that is absolutely detrimental to their client OR will make them (the solicitor) look incompetent or unethical. In which case, it does make me wonder if his solicitor is intentionally undermining his case. Or if he/she is just a shit solicitor.

[awesmum]

Christmas merriment can commence.

I had an email from my solicitor who had one from his -
'Unfortunately, throughout this matter we have had to deal with arrangements for DD at the 11th hour.'
Really you don't say? So your client has had my timings for 11 days but decides to only respond once prompted by my solicitor the day before handover is due. Painting me into a corner as always.

I always deal with my stuff the moment I get an email or letter. Not ex he always leaves it till the day before to leave no option to come to a compromise.

His solicitor said I had until 5pm today to deal with this, as all offices are shut over Christmas. Oh dear I didn't pick up the email till they were shut, so haven't managed to do anything .

[YouretheChristmasCarcass]

Aww, that's just too too bad. For him, that is.

[Weenurse]

Happy Christmas 🎁

[SissySpacekAteMyHamster]

Good for you. Play him at his own game.