Help me understand this - proposal

[CoffeeThroughAnIvDrip]

DP and I have been together many years and have 3 young DC’s together.
When we first started dating, we had a light hearted chat about weddings, and way back then, I was still romanticising the idea of the ‘big white wedding’. I used to dream of a designer dress and matching shoes, a huge array of guests, just a massive deal made out of it all. DP was never of the same view, and stated he didn’t see the point in wasting so much money on one day, and thought people should just cheaply elope or have a registry office do instead.

As the years past (and DC’s added to our family) I ‘woke up’ and realised that I no longer wanted that big wedding, that marriage itself was way more important to me than the wedding day (as it should be!), and I ended up telling DP about how my views had changed and had become much more, simple, for lack of a better word.

Another year or so went by, with each of us talking about engagements and weddings and marriage (not always prompted by me!), and we still wasn’t engaged and no closer to being so.
One evening, after yet another talk about getting engaged, I was browsing rings online. Found one I fell in love with, and we ordered it.

It then came to light that DP’s views on weddings had changed since we first met. He’s now no longer comfortable with the idea of a registry office wedding or eloping, and instead wants something small with just close friends and family at a little venue close to our home. He wants our DC’s included in the ceremony, a car to arrive in etc - so quite the backtrack on what I’d been told years ago!

Anyway, the ring has now been sitting in our bedroom for four months. I’ve told DP I don’t want a huge deal made out of the proposal, I don’t want the thrills or the surprise (not that I’m going to be surprised in any way, shape or form since we already have the ring!), I don’t want elaborate planning having gone in to it, I just want us to be able to sit down and say ‘yes, we’re committed to each other, we’re now engaged and we’re going to knuckle down and start saving for a small wedding’. Done. That’s all I want and need. But dp has been insistent on doing something ‘proper’ for the proposal - apparently he WANTS to propose and experience the moment of doing it, and not just decide we’re engaged after a conversation.

So, we agreed no money would be put in to the proposal, because I think something lovely and romantic can be done at home, if the romance and that ‘moment’ is what he really wants to experience, he can definitely create that in our lounge (cheap flowers, a nice home cooked dinner, my favourite music playing, ask me to marry him, boom, sorted).
4 months I’ve been waiting (well, 4 months of having the ring, but I’ve actually been waiting years by this point), wondering what he could possibly be planning that couldn’t have happened since the ring arrived in June.

Well, it was my birthday last week. DP got me some amazing gifts which I’m so thankful for, got me a lovely card from the DC’s, but I didn’t receive a card from him. He knows I love to get a card from him, but is notorious for writing them out then misplacing them (he literally has a stack of birthday, Christmas and valentines cards that he never gets round to giving me because he always forgets where they end up 🙄 he also has stacks for his mum and his sister too!) but this morning, whilst sorting through our washing and putting some bits away, I came across an envelope in his sock drawer that appeared to have a birthday card inside, addressed to me. Given his history with cards, I assumed this was yet another card he’d forgotten about, so I opened it.

The card on the front read ‘to my fiancé on your birthday’, inside he’d written a birthday message then at the bottom wrote ‘now it’s official’.

I’m so confused and frankly, quite upset. We’ve had so many talks about engagement and marriage, especially over the last year, he knows I don’t want a fuss made and am more than happy to have a ‘no huge expenditure, no thrills’ proposal and an equally cheap wedding day, so to learn he was going to propose last week at home, likely after we’d got the DC’s to bed (perfect! No fuss!) is like a slap round the face to discover that for some reason, he’s chosen not to do it.

I don’t know what to think or feel.

(Please don’t comment about how precarious my situation is having dc before marriage. I am aware of the ramifications should we ever break up - so I’m not looking to be hounded at from that perspective.)

Just looking to see if anyone can unpick this trail of events and maybe help give me an insight in to what he’s thinking. I do plan on speaking to him at some point about what I’ve found, but wanted to offload on here first!

Thanks!

[DuckbilledSplatterPuff]

Congratulations to you both @CoffeeThroughAnIvDrip . with a 5 week old on your hands and needing to save up It seems quite reasonable to wait a bit. Hope you all have a great day

[whatmind]

@CoffeeThroughAnIvDrip as I said earlier I do think you have had some harsh responses.

I also think I and most people on this thread have been supportive, we also worry because from an outside perspective you are in a vulnerable position and there seems no real reason for your DP to keep changing things up - which results in more time passing before you can actually get married.

I never really was the girl who imagined a wedding but when it became apparent we were going to marry I did want to do the dress and the nice day - preferably cheaper than we managed in the end - but as I said the day itself was gorgeous in ways I hadn't imagined.

Neither my DH or I wanted a registry office wedding either... but then we didn't and still don't have any children together.

No one is saying get the official wedding done in jeans and scruffy t-shirts, just that it would be objectively a better position legally for you to be in at this moment in your life.

It may seem not ideal/a real wedding in some way but there really is nothing stopping you from making your "real wedding" the big party in 2 years - I really really do understand that for saving that much money you will have to take time to build your fund.

I hope you can understand that I just worry that you will end up like I did, your story is very familiar to me.

Do you think I thought I would end up separated from my husband in any let alone so little time? I certainly didn't.

The problems for us really started to hit home after the wedding was over and that is where I worry you will end up, maybe in two and a bit years, maybe five.

I worry because it seems like your DP is procrastinating for all he is worth and you will realise at some point that you have made a mistake waiting for the wedding that didn't happen when it was supposed to (trust me resentment builds no matter how you try not to let it) or that you went ahead with it when clearly there was something not quite right with your DP's "want" to do it.
Or as in my case, haunted by both.

I worry you will be hurt if it comes out in the wash like it did for me that actually no he didn't want to get married at that time (or ever?) but that he had strung you along and drove you a bit mad in the process all the while saying it was his one goal in life.

I worry you will be hurt if it doesn't come out in the wash, and his behaviour after the wedding - that he's so reluctant to properly commit to of his own free will - will be moody and withdrawn and resentful over time because possibly like my husband he is unable to really express his inner needs and desires.

Please do be careful OP, I really honestly do hope that your situation sounds worse than it is and that you, your DP and children will live a long and happy life together.

Don't blind yourself with love like I did and end up with a broken heart like me, take control of your life and look out for yourself. If your DP loves you as much as he says he will want to do this and action it and continue to action it. If he stalls or changes the goalposts or whatever puts it off again. If you feel like you are the one who is eventually doing all the planning and bringing things up that need doing - cancel it.

Really it's not drastic action if the above happens. I thought it was, and counterproductive at that, but in actual fact if you cancel it because of that scenario and he does nothing you know you did the right thing.
If you cancel and he moves heaven and earth to make it right and pull his weight and show you he really does in fact want to do it with actions rather than words, you have a nicer answer to the internal question his behaviour brings up and caused you to post in the first place.

Think about that, you had cause to ask for unbiased opinions given the facts you gave. You had reason to ask. Your DP's behaviour has given you a wobble for a reason.

Don't gloss over things in your head because for now things seem to be moving in the right direction.

Sure keep optimistic about the fact that he loves you and you will be married in 2 short years, but keep a part of your brain that is above the excitement and love aware that he may start to relax now he thinks he's placated you with the kind of non-proposal - which TBH was weird! Mine was also weird so I'd know ha ha!

I do wish you all the best OP and I hope I am stupidly wrong about all of what I have said. Please do post an "I told you everything would be fine" after the wedding so I can congratulate you and apologise.

[Dyrne]

You can dole out the “wise advice” without insulting the OP...

There’s quite spectrum between “aww well done hun” and the “you’re deluded, he will never marry you, you’ll come crawling back in two years when he’s still dragging his feet etc etc” kind of posts that some people have posted.

[TheOliphantintheRoom]

Dyrne - you can be part of the "aw hun well done u 4 getting engaged" brigade, I'll dole out the wise advice.

[Dyrne]

Right; so calling the OP “daft” and “deluded” is lovely and supportive now? You absolute saints...

[TheOliphantintheRoom]

but can we all just be a bit nicer and more supportive

Telling a SAHM of 3 young kids that she needs to get married NOW is supportive. Wait two years for your dream wedding and party by all means but you'd be wise to pay a visit to the registry office for a low key ceremony asap.

[BendyLikeBeckham]

Sometimes support doesn't come in the form you expect or in words you want to hear, OP. I am genuinely trying to warn you from a more objective perspective.

As I said, I hope I'm wrong. I truly wish you all the best and hope it all turns out well for you.

[Beamur]

Congratulations!

[CoffeeThroughAnIvDrip]

Ok this will literally be the last time I post.

Would I be ok with a registry office wedding? Yes.

But would I still like the chance to wear a wedding dress and celebrate properly and have a nice day? OF COURSE. I've dreamed of having a proper wedding day since I was a kid, me agreeing with DP to make an actual day out of our wedding isn't me 'stalling' or being confused about what I want.

2 years isn't a long time to wait for a wedding. It will take at least 18 months to save up for, which again, despite MN seeming to think you can have the money for a wedding in the blink of an eye , isn't a long time. We could get married sooner than that, but it'd mean no family days out, no treats, no extra cash laying around for those 'just in case' moments.

I appreciate some our your honest posts, but for real, can you all just let me be happy and stop trying to put a downer on things.

We'll be announcing our engagement on Saturday then planning is commencing. I know MN loves drama and tends to thrive when things go wrong, but can we all just be a bit nicer and more supportive.

There's looking out for other women, then there's commenting on the future of a relationship you know nothing about other than few comments I've made. DP and I love each other. We love our children, we love our life, we respect each other's families and are in a good place.

So, for the final time, peace out and thanks for the responses!

[BendyLikeBeckham]

short term*

[BendyLikeBeckham]

@CrystalShark The OP is only stalling to the point that it is easier to kick the can down the road, when the can most likely is the realisation that the wedding will never happen. Less painful in the sort term to delude yourself and postpone the awful realisation and pain. With hindsight of course, she will regret it, the pain will be worse and the years wasted.

[Housebuying]

The OP doesn’t seem to know what she wants, she wants whenever her DP wants. I’m another thinking that I don’t see that your future will be with him

[CrystalShark]

It actually seems to me like OP is stalling just as much as her boyfriend, she doesn’t seem fussed about hurrying to get married and is happy to be engaged for a long time and slowly plan the wedding. If that’s what they both want then great!

[BendyLikeBeckham]

I'm with @Derbee. He is still stalling. One of those who can't commit in case something better comes along.

Sorry OP. I can see you are happy and I'm not trying to piss on that, I just think you can't see what we can.

More obstacles will crop up in the next 2 years that will prevent the wedding happening. Mark my words. I hope I'm wrong but I'm doubt I am.

Please ensure you aren't financially vulnerable over the next 2 years. Go back to work. Don't have any more DC. You have a future to plan and it probably isn't with him.

[JavaQ]

LOL! Sounds like you got the low-key proposal!
Or perhaps...try NOT talking about it for a while, so he can "surprise" you with the ring/proposal?

Hang on to the love. I am thrilled that you both have that for each other.

[Secondsight]

I can't understand a man being that into the proposal and all this romantic stuff or is that just stereotypical. He should however consider what you may like. Im just old fashioned and got a marriage proposal and date before moving in with my DP.
I thought if I'm good enough to have children with I'm good enough to marry. That way there's no grovelling to get married.

[Derbee]

@CoffeeThroughAnIvDrip I’ve seen this happen enough times to know. Theses marriages generally don’t happen, or don’t last. You might be different of course, but it’s seemed pretty easy to buy himself another 2 years?!

[user1474894224]

@CoffeeThroughAnIvDrip Congratulations. Have a wonderful wedding. (I had baby 1. Got engaged when PG with baby 2 - similar to you we had a ring and he was waiting for the right time. He also asked my dad. Then we had baby 3. Finally 7 years after that we had our wedding. The wedding was easy to organise actually so we planned it at Xmas and were married in May. I was/am also a Sahp. Ignore the gloom of MN).

[TheOliphantintheRoom]

OP - you were daft to have 3 (three!) DC and become financially dependent upon a man who wouldn't marry you.
You are being daft to let him dictate what kind of wedding you'll have, when and how he proposes and letting him ask your dad for his permission before he'll let you announce your engagement.
And you're being daft to wait two years before entering into a contractual arrangement (marriage) that will give you the financial and legal protection you need NOW.
I wish you well.

[babyrefusesfood]

Please update this thread if you do marry

[whatmind]

Hi OP you've had a tough time on this thread being called a "micro manager" etc.

I understand entirely where you are coming from here as you have described exactly the situation me and my now DH were in a few years ago, only with the addition that you guys have children whereas we do not.

I never have had any doubt or reason to doubt my husbands love for me. I know he adores me and I know that he did want to marry me very much but he was as wishy washy as your DP is being now.

Years of talking about it, a few goalpost changes on his part, some slightly daft and outmoded ways of thought like asking my mum for my hand (dad long passed) and not wanting to pop the question till he felt able to financially support a wife and future family.

Our wedding was a small-ish affair in the same ball park budget as yours is planned to be. It was an amazing day in so very many ways and everyone had a blast.

I was very much like you sound - in love and pretty laid back about the whole thing, and that the only important part is that we love each other, are on the same page and are going to get married.

CoffeeThroughAnlvDrip We have been married nearly 2 years and are now separated.

I still believe my husband loves me and wanted to marry me but there was a part of him that didn't want to marry me and he wasn't able to acknowledge or deal with that part of him.

I actually tried to postpone or cancel the wedding twice due to his hot and cold behaviours but he convinced me that it was his dream to marry me and that he was going to be 100% in it with me from here out - what I like to call the "life got in the way" excuse as there was always something that was causing unrelated pressure in his life that was the "cause" of his reluctance.

Look up passive aggressive and an article called the Boomerang Relationship and see if it has any bearing on you and your partner. It certainly describes to a T the dynamic as it stood between my husband and I before the separation.

It may not be relevant in your situation so I would urge you to understand all I am saying here is that there is a reason for him having not got on with it already the above was the reason mine didn't. It doesn't matter when it comes to the crunch why, more so that it is happening, you are not imagining it and he is not being honest with you for whatever reason.

I wish you all the luck in the world but sadly find myself unable to say congratulations purely because I truly believe that you deserve (as I did), someone who not only says the right things, but acts on them in good quick time and without prompting.

I fear you will be me.

I still love my husband and would love nothing more than for our situation to be resolved and our lives to continue together - because despite all the bad that has built up over the years we had a lot of good to build a foundation on.

I am really not optimistic on either of our respective relationship chances though because the men in both our lives are unable to decide what they really want and act on it.

You have to take control for yourself I did that by leaving and I really think I made the best choice for me - I already feel like a new woman just for getting out from under the confusion/anger/hurt/worry/etc atmosphere that had built up.

If he wants to marry you he can do it at any time as soon as you get your licence.

If he is waiting for any reasons due to preference or tradition, in reality, he is only putting up another obstacle to keep the wedding day as "soon". Get the wedding official and have a big ass party when you've saved up the cash FGS

He should also understand that he is leaving you in a vulnerable position without being married and he should want to do something about that. The fact that it either hasn't occurred to him or galvanised him to action speaks volumes.

I'm quite angry and sad on your behalf!
He is treating you with so little care. He may love you but he is not treating you well at all.

[CoffeeThroughAnIvDrip]

@Derbee aren't you just the spreader of joy! Who shit in your cornflakes this morning 🤦🏻‍♀️

[Derbee]

Filing this under “weddings that will never happen”

[ChristmasFluff]

OP, I'd prepare yourself, because I think after speaking to your Dad, and assuming he gains permission, you might find that he suddenly decides that a massive wedding in Westminster Abbey is what he really wants - with the need to save up for many years to afford it.

[TheOliphantintheRoom]

What a depressing thread!