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Relationships

Had a talk, but it's like it's gone right over his head?

53 replies

WotcherHarry · 04/07/2017 19:45

Hi all,
I'm feeling at a bit of a loss at the moment, and I'm not sure how to carry on!

I have been with my husband for 10 years, married for 6 years, and we have children aged 4 years and 18 months.

We have had problems for many years (he was financially and emotionally abusive, alongside a lot of problems after our eldest was born and he was both unsupportive and cruel - telling me that it was my fault that she had issues). Our 18 month old was conceived in the aftermath of a miscarriage when he'd been making some changes. We've always had a meagre sex life, for want of a better word, and we haven't had sex since our youngest was conceived - so over two years now.

I reached a point with him three years ago when I told him that I was desperately unhappy and he made me feel like I was the most awful person ever for bringing it up - I agreed to a six month trial against my better instincts and then fell pregnant during the singular time that we had sex - it had taken us two years with our eldest so was a big surprise - miscarried, he was then fairly supportive (very much out of character, without being horrible) and I naively thought that things had changed, hence I was pregnant again fairly quickly and we bought a house in the aftermath.

I'm at the point now where there have been some big watershed moments and the scales have truly fallen from my eyes again, and I know that his poor behaviour is cyclical, when he puts in a lot of effort, enough to reel me back in, and then creeps back up. He is not as financially controlling as he once was but there are still certain behaviours there. He is also not supportive at all of my job - I work two long shifts a week in a challenging and professional role - and has scuppered some enhancement opportunities, although he denies that this is intentional. The main thing is that he will always put himself first rather than the kids - e.g. Will not offer them lunch before himself, or if he doesn't eat will just let them raid cupboards and snack rather than offering food. Lots of examples, I don't want to drip feed later on but there are numerous issues!

For info, I am inclined to be a people pleaser, although over the last year I have made efforts to rein this in!

A couple of days ago we talked and I said that things had slipped back and that I was very unhappy, that I did not know how to fix them (suggested counselling last time but he declined), and that I am still fond of him but not in love (I know many on MN would deem it suspicious - definitely no other man!). He cried, as is usual, and I told him that we needed to have a good think about things (as I wanted him to take it on board) but that I felt our relationship was coming to an end and that divorce would be on the cards. I was gentle, and kind, but I thought that I was firm...!

Basically, since then, he has completely ignored what I've said - calling me 'darling', touching me when I pass, talking about things that he wants to buy me for Christmas and things he wants us to do to the house in the next couple of years. He has never been physically violent at all, but this behaviour makes me feel incredibly uneasy - he wants me to just knock my daft thoughts on the head and slip back into my familiar role.

I am tired of this, tired of mothering another adult except for when he wants to control. I wanted to stick it out until early next year as I thought that it might be a little easier with childcare as I would currently have little cover available if he became difficult. After our talk I thought that it would expedite the process and I was a little fearful, mostly thankful from an emotional perspective, yet here we are.

Has anyone else ever been in this situation, and how did you handle it?

Many thanks!

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TempusEejit · 25/07/2017 16:48

The way he's been so far he'll probably fight you regardless of what you ask for regarding financial settlement so no point selling yourself and your DC short in the hopes he'll suddenly turn into a decent human being who's not only thinking about himself. He already thinks you're being massively unreasonable in wanting to separate let alone when he's faced with cold hard divorce paperwork. Start as high as is reasonable then let him barter you down to the level you were considering in the first place.

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ferriswheel · 25/07/2017 16:22

Please leave him. I could have written a very similar post a while back. I threw my h out. It was and is a difficult time but none of it is as bad as the sadness that was such a constant.

Women's Aid taught me that men like my, and your, h keep you unbalanced. If they think they've pushed you a bit far they wind it in a bit, and so on, until your all unsure of everything.

It is difficult but so is holding onto a relationship that is based on a foundation of lies.

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StormTreader · 25/07/2017 10:37

"I would ask for more so you could potentially negotiate down to what you think now. I would also worry about him increasing jointly liable debts in the meantime..."

^^this. I've seen so many threads on here about these situations, the man always thinks they should get the lions share of the couples assets, and the first offer is always seen as being massively unreasonable - even the ones where they start off reasonable quickly turn in the first month when it becomes apparent this isnt all some big joke.
Start off asking for the biggest possible share that seems technically reasonable and let them beat you down to where you are now.

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RandomMess · 20/07/2017 17:28

I would ask for more so you could potentially negotiate down to what you think now. I would also worry about him increasing jointly liable debts in the meantime...

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WotcherHarry · 20/07/2017 17:21

Thinking about it, I think I will ask her if it would be reasonable to include the 5k in the final pot before money is divided, as I will be paying it in the meantime...

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WotcherHarry · 20/07/2017 14:43

Forgot to add that I have proposed that he takes on our overdraft (about
1500) and I keep my small credit card debt. I feel like it's going to cost me a lot but worth it to be free!!

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WotcherHarry · 20/07/2017 14:42

Thanks TCCI, I've been meaning to update this actually!
We went backwards and forwards, around all the bases with whether or not he would move out Hmm and he is finally going to tell his parents tonight and ask if he can move in with them. I am hoping that he is going to be reasonable, fingers crossed. I went to see a solicitor today and told her my proposal which she says is fair - 60% of equity, I take on our joint loan of 5k as I am keeping the decent car (as his does not fit the children's car seats in properly) and most of the larger possessions in the house, although he can take what he wants otherwise. I could push for more but I think he will tip into pissed off mode and I want to keep a decent working relationship with him as much as possible. If we had more equity in the house then it might be worth going for more, but we have about 40k so it would be minimal financially and I feel like he is less likely to contest it. I am considering whether 65% would be fair as it would minimise the financial impact on me but I also don't want to just 'rinse' it for all I can get...?!

I know that this is the right decision, I feel it, I feel sad for the loss of the dream but otherwise a bit numb. I'm tired at the moment though as been having a busy time at work and he's definitely dropped all efforts to pull his weight now, not that they were substantial anyway!

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TTCI · 19/07/2017 12:26

@WotcherHarry hope everything is ok x

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SandyY2K · 13/07/2017 23:39

Regarding domestic stuff, he needs to start doing his own chores in preparation for living alone.

Just stop clearing up after him.

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innagazing · 13/07/2017 23:20

Also, re getting a dog, it's hard to walk a dog when you have two young children that you can't leave on their own.

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innagazing · 13/07/2017 23:17

Another one here saying don't be talked into living in the same house for two years! There is no benefit to this at all to you or the children- only to him, to control you and delay the inevitable. You'll end up hating each other and risk depression etc!
See what your solicitor says, but aim to separate as soon as possible, so you can get on with your new life. It sounds as though you're really doing the right thing by separating, and I hope it ll goes well for you.

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ChrisPrattsFace · 13/07/2017 22:13

You're doing amazing! Very proud that you are putting you and your children first. It sounds like you have a very manipulative husband, so I can imagine it will be difficult to stay strong.
I have no advice - other than thinking of your future and what you want!
Good luck OP!

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TTCI · 13/07/2017 22:02

It's so lovely how all the women on here just pull together to help another x really lovely to see and reassuring for a hopeful mum trying to conceive. Harry I can't imagine how all this must feeling, you must have so much going trough your head. I was with my ex for 5 years and he had a drinking problem and could turn nasty, it was awful and the decision to leave him was really hard because I felt so guilty but it's the best thing I've ever done. Xx

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Hotwaterbottle1 · 13/07/2017 21:52

I shared with my stbex for a year & it almost killed me. It was awful, I reached some really low points. Please don't do that to yourself. It's hell.

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ShizeItsWeegie · 13/07/2017 20:01

Just say no to the two year thing. It's control pure and simple. It will wreck your melon completely. You really need to have freedom much much sooner. There is no reason to wait for the term to be up on the mortgage. Times up when its up. The two year thing is arbitrary entirely. Do what you want to do.

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WotcherHarry · 13/07/2017 12:55

Phoned a solicitor today and made an appointment for next week.

I slept in my son's room last night, H asked me this morning why I hadn't slept in our room 😳 - was surprised when I said that we needed seperate sleeping spaces even though I'd said about getting another bed. It's so fucking painful, he wont tell his parents at the minute. It's clear that I'm going to have to get a bed myself - I'd given him a choice about whether he wanted our bed or to buy a new one.

I'm going to try to find his paperwork for pay etc tomorrow. Also mortgage statements etc. I'm working a long shift this weekend so will print out my payslips and pension statement... I've done the entitled to calculator before with close but inexact figures, however I didn't factor for him digging his fingers in for the next two fucking years!! How does that work with affecting financial entitlement to tax credits etc?

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WotcherHarry · 12/07/2017 14:01

zap you are right! Now that I'm not as tired from being post nights I can see the road that he was trying to pave, regardless of whether or not it was right for everyone else.

Also agree about the dog, I do have cover for shifts so it's okay, but it's not something that I'll rush straight into - we will find our own rhythm first, especially with my daughter starting school!

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Zaphodsotherhead · 12/07/2017 11:13

Oh - and don't get a dog until you can work out the logistics of who will look after it while you are at work and the kids are at school/nursery!

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Zaphodsotherhead · 12/07/2017 11:11

So he's still trying to control you - going away to 'show you how difficult it will be to look after the children when he's not there' I bet.

If you stay together in the house but split, expect lots of late-night comings and goings, lots of 'secretive' phone calls with laughter etc, as he tries to make you think he's got lots of other women on the go and make you jealous.

He still thinks you are going to see the error of your ways and back down so he's trying to teach you a lesson. You should try to get him out - even if you agree that the house will be sold at the end of the 2 year period, to lessen the impact of this control over you and the kids.

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WotcherHarry · 12/07/2017 11:00

stormtreader I think that is mostly true, I am going to think about the best way to approach this with him to get him to rent somewhere, preferably before Christmas but definitely not long after.

My daughter is at nursery tomorrow and I am going to spend the day on the phone so that I can talk openly if I need to. I'm not going to let him control me/us.

My thoughts initially are to keep our pensions separate, although i would be hoping for about 60% of the equity in the house. I've read different things about keeping the house, that will be something that I ask tomorrow. Thank you!

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StormTreader · 12/07/2017 10:48

"although he is saying that he wants to stay in the house until it is sold at the end of our remortgage period (a bit under 2 years!)"

This is too long, way too long. I suspect that this is actually "2 years is plenty of time for her to forget the whole silly thing."

Have you seen a solicitor yet and gotten the divorce process rolling?

Look for a rottweiler of a solicitor who will fight for as much as possible - you are the primary carer of the children, and married - theres a decent chance you will be awarded more than 50% of the house, an amount from his pension, and possibly even be awarded residency of the house until the children are 18, and you will get maintenance from your ex as well as your wages.

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WotcherHarry · 12/07/2017 10:45

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2690456-When-the-changes-arent-enough

Just found an old thread of mine from last year.

It's reminded me that he is due to go away again for work in September, and that he knew that I'd booked two weeks off for annual leave so that I could get my daughter settled into school. He booked his week away for the week after my annual leave 😳, I asked if he could change it to the week before so that I wasn't stuck for childcare as my parents are away on holiday, my shifts would either be nights or long days and I have no other help with care, he said that one of the hotels had said that he couldn't go and carry out his work before that date (nothing messy, it's an inspection/testing role).

It's also reminded me that he will talk about going away but seem to swerve actually doing so, however if I arrange to go away without the kids he gets pissy and acts like a victim.

My daughter keeps asking for a dog and I said that I wanted to get one as I have always had dogs but he has said no for years, and the most fucking irritating thing is that he keeps saying 'yes, soon' to her and 'no' when I bring it up, I have told him how unfair this is on her and he should not lie to her, he hates looking like the 'bad person' even though it is his choice to stay dog free (this sounds ridiculous). It wouldn't even have been an issue for him as he only would have been with the dog for one day a week as the night shift wouldn't count. That will be something that I do with my lovely children when he goes.

Sorry, I know this is self indulgent but I am feeling cross and justified in the decision to end the marriage, my default position is always to feel sorry for him but actually he is getting on my nerves so much lately that my sense of guilt is lesser than it would have been in the past!

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WotcherHarry · 12/07/2017 10:28

Sorry, another post!
I am struggling with his intention to stay in the house. I feel like I am always trying to look after everyone else's feelings, and I know that he can legally stay here, but I will still end up having to clean up his piss from the toilet, clean out the food that he leaves in the kitchen sink, pick up his socks from the floor (not even the bedroom) - around the house! I would happily pay the mortgage until time to sell so that he could rent somewhere if he would just go. I would take the kids myself but what is the point in us squeezing into a tiny place if he has a 3 bedroomed house to himself??

Argh. I hate feeling angry, and I hate feeling like I am being difficult, but I am my children's advocate. I need him to see that it is not good for the children to have us separated under the same roof long term - six months at a push was kind of what I was thinking, to give him time to save a house/flat rental deposit but it really threw me when he said that.

His first thoughts are always for himself - he hasn't thought about how this will affect the children.

I will re-address it in a couple of days, it just isn't feasible...

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WotcherHarry · 12/07/2017 09:58

Thanks TCCI, I appreciate that more than you probably realise!

LisaMed I called him out on that and said that he has always used my soft nature so that we brush things under the carpet. He said that he meant that we should talk tomorrow (tonight) rather than then, I said that I felt that he knew that I would agree to talk as I wouldn't want to go to bed and be thinking about it. I also said to him that whether he is intentional in his actions or not, he is manipulative and whilst his behaviour has changed a lot from our first that I cannot trust him any longer with my emotional welfare.

I really hope that he will consent to move out before the house sells (as I am part time, even with tax credits I am not sure that I could quite get enough for the mortgage alone due to housing costs where we live) as it will be dreadful living with him. I will think over it for a couple of days as I do not want to uproot the children before I need to... it's so hard to know what to do when you're in the thick of it! Saying that, I am so much stronger and I feel like I have a clear head for the first time ever.

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LisaMed1 · 12/07/2017 08:46

I think he chose the time deliberately so that you would be easier to 'persuade'

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