my brother's wife just told him she hates sex!

[chillyogawine]

Not sure where to start with this but thought I'd get some sane opinions from MN. Going thru my own marriage breakdown, I am leaning on family members and although I used to be very close to my bro, what with kids etc we have drifted apart. Anyway recently he has been a total rock of support to me. A couple of nights ago he confided in me that he was unhappy, he said he loves his wife (hes been pretty much infatuated with her since they first met and she knows he adores her) but she has always been physically very cold. She hates being touched by him. She is a warm and lovely person in every other way but even I have noted over the years when he goes to hug her she stiffens up. Anyway she has told him apparently several times that she finds sex a chore and a duty, something to tick off the to do list. I said well after so many years of marriage we all can feel like that, but he says that she doesn't even pretend to like it and when they do have sex its routine and bad. he was very open, they haven't French kissed for over 5 years, just peck on the lips/cheek, she doesn't let him do anything intimate except straight sex and its all about her and not him, so he says and she often has to get drunk before sex. He says the relationship works otherwise, they have kids and he is hands on and adores them and he earns the money, she doesn't work, and they have good friends. They never do anything just the two of them though, only with friends or as a family. He wants her and doesn't want to leave but feels so sad all the time. Again the other night she actually said that she hates sex full stop. I don't know if I am the right person to give advice as I am separating from a partner that cheated on me! I suggested counselling but she says she doesn't think they have a problem and she's happy as things are.

[chillyogawine]

Well there is no medical reason. She pretty much went off sex soon after they married and over the past 6 or 7 years doesn't let him kiss her or touch her or hug her. She has told him outright that sex is a chore and an effort and she hates it. not dislike but hate, her words and doesn't like being touched. He loves her but probably could pay her more attention maybe. I've said I'd babysit for them but she always cancels me at the last minute. My brother is going to see a counsellor on his own as she said that she's happy and she can't help the way she is and that's that. Like it's ok to just say to your partner i don't want sex but that's your problem not mine. But yes think him getting counselling may help him understand himself, her and them as a couple better. Relationships are hard.

[Isetan]

They're not sexually compatible.

Just as the rejection must be impacting your DB's MH, I can't imagine getting drunk to enable you to have sex with your H is having the best impact on his wife's MH either. There's nothing wrong in your DB's wife not wanting sex (it's her body), just like there's nothing wrong in your DB wanting sex in his marriage, the problem for both parties, is that they're in the wrong relationship to have those expectations.

He has to decide if the current situation is a dealbreaker. If it is, then he has to communicate this to her and be prepared to leave if nothing changes.

And to the poster who called the wife frigid, what an ugly misogynistic label that is. No one is entitled to sex with another person and marriage doesn't change that fact.

[Changedname3456]

I don't understand your point about wanting sex on her terms. Surely, we all want this. Whether we get it is a difffent matter!

What I meant was that (from what OP reports) she's selfish in bed - he has to get her "there" and she doesn't then give a toss about how pleasurable he's found it. Kind of like a guy banging away until he cums and then leaving his partner to sort herself out.

I get that we're only getting one side (pretty much always the case on here) but she sounds like a nasty, selfish piece of work. To tell your partner that you're repulsed by them...?

I would bet she's having an ea or full blown affair.

[DidILeaveTheGasOn]

Not to mention, you can't use a low sex drive as a reason for divorce... Even though there have been times in my relationship where we have only had sex twice in the space of a year. I feel old before my time.

[SandyY2K]

We go by the info given as with every post here. There's always another side of the story in any post here, and this is no different.

My DB confided in me when he was having marital problems before he got divorced. Of course I know that what he says is from his perspective, but I do not believe he would have any reason to lie to me, as I'm sure the OP feels.

It's not about sex being a trade off for paying bills, sex is part of a healthy marriage for most people. How many people would choose to even live with a flatmate that was cold towards them, much less a wife.

If a marriage isn't considered consummated without having sex, why do some people think it's just one parties decision to unilaterally stop having a sexual relationship once you're married, with no regard for how their spouse feels.

That's assuming there are no medical issues or any mistreatment going on.

Unless both parties choose to have a none sexual relationship, then you can see why it will be an issue.

Then such women (or men) act totally blindsided when their spouse leaves them for someone else.

Love is right there in the hierarchy of needs of human beings. Everyone has a different love language.

If a husband or wife just dismisses their spouse's needs, then be prepared for the consequences of that.

The problem is having only one income and getting divorced is costly.

[Italiangreyhound]

Changedname3456 it is certainly not a satisfactory marriage but it seems he is besotted with her so not keen to separate.

I don't understand your point about wanting sex on her terms. Surely, we all want this. Whether we get it is a difffent matter!

Whether we want lots of sex, or only a little, or none! What we want doesn't necessarily mean we get it, unless what what we want is none!

If she wants sex now and again and he agrees surely they are both on the same page at that time.

Unless she is just doing it as a chore to keep the marriage going, then it seems sad.

But what starts out as a chore may become a delight.

I think maybe men don't realise just how easily it is for some women to be put off sex. I can't speak for those put off sex permanently but in terms of things that just makes sex less likely to happen.

I do wonder if it is the same for men.

Eg an argument, cross words, s mean word or gesture, not feeling supported, feeling too tired, feeling too full after a meal.

Would these things put the average man off sex? Or the average woman off sex? Just curious really.

But this woman has gone a step further to say she dosn't like sex and sees it as a chore or words to that affect. I think some women think this but do not say it.

[DidILeaveTheGasOn]

Also to the person who said he must have known about his wife not being interested in sex all along, it's a bit late to take issue with it now... That's not how life works. You don't make a decision and then climb inside it and get eaten alive by it. It is possible to misjudge something, to love someone so much that you blame all sorts of things for their lack of interest in sex, things that commonly occur when you get together :-
Moving house
Getting married
Work stress
Money stress

In my own situation, really early on I discovered that my now husband thought sex wasn't important to women and that we didn't orgasm, so after one particularly memorable occasion where he finished and I didn't and I raised it, he was really surprised. So we can add:-

Differences in attitudes

When I tried to talk to my dh about sex to improve things, he told me I was ruining the specialness of it, and from then on he didn't want to know (couldn't be bothered?) and used to come up with different reasons for not wanting sex:-

We weren't getting on well enough (I had to behave myself and get sex like a prize for good behaviour)
When we were getting on well enough, he was too tired / not in the mood

So we can add to the list:-

Control
Bullying? Maybe? Weird to use that word in the context of marriage.
Anger? Disappointment? Both maybe wanting each other to be just different enough that this would be OK?

It is such a complex issue when it's not working out, you can't cheapen it or dismiss it, that's not fair or particularly intelligent.

[DidILeaveTheGasOn]

I felt sad reading that comment that said men feel loved by having sex and women vice versa, goodness. That's just not true and is harmful to both sides. Men experience love just like women do. Women have a sex drive and enjoy sex just like men.

[Sample1936]

Some of you tall as if sex is the expected trade off for paying the mortgage and bills which he and his kids also benefit from.

You don't know all the details but some of you are too readily calling her abusive selfish and controlling?! Wtf..

You don't know how much of this is exaggeration and ops hyperbole.

Again if you really care stop gossiping about their relation. He can ask for her to attend couples therapy if she refuses he can divorce. It's very weird that he'd share that with you his sister. Something doesn't make sense here and i hope some people think before running away with their imagination.

[Cricrichan]

My libido is directly connected to my feelings. It's switched off because of lack of respect or pulling their weight, by feeling loved or interested in me, being controlled etc. It never meant an affair or anyone else, just their behaviour.

[Brokejoke]

I think one person on the first page said she might be having an affair. I know I said about the phone thing being controlling. Mumsnet has many posters all with their own opinions. It isn't a hive mind. It isn't the exact same posters saying one thing on one thread and a completely different thing on another where the sexes are reversed.

[SandyY2K]

changedname I agree with you. In fact if it was a man, he'd be called abusive.... By tracking him, having sex on her terms and being a selfish lover.

But as she's a woman people feel it's okay to be nasty about the OPs brother.

I really feel sorry for men in this position. This is not a woman who hates sex, she hates it with him.. Unless she's drunk.

Does he track her phone? I bet P. I would have some discoveries with her.

[Obsidian77]

Why should she have sex if she doesn't like it
Not suggesting she should do anything she doesn't want to do. It's the fact that she won't address it that is selfish and unkind.
Presumably their relationship wasn't always like this? If op's brother had married her knowing she didn't like sex and has now decided he can't deal with it, that would be different.
If they used to have a sex life that was mutually satisfactory and she has entirely withdrawn her affections she has to acknowledge her husband will be affected by this change. If she won't do anything to address this, I would wonder why not, but regardless I think op's brother should try to access professional counselling, even if his wife won't go.

[Changedname3456]

And yet again we have a thread where the woman doesn't want sex and every reason is trotted out for it except what everyone would jump to with the sexes reversed.

She wants sex on her terms but doesn't like him touching her (but is more than prepared to have him pay the bills, is invading his privacy and tracking his movements, won't let any other women near him etc). The sex is all about getting her rocks off when it does happen and she doesn't care what he gets from it.

If this were a man then almost all of you would be shouting "affair" by now. OP I'd suggest your brother starts doing some privacy invading of his own. I'd then suggest he LTB and find someone who'll respect him, fancy him and not treat him as a cashpoint and occasional dildo.

[RacoonofDoom]

when she wants sex she gets sex

She doesn't 'hate sex' then does she?

Weird thread. I'd go mad if I thought my OH was discussing our sex life with my SIL.

[Italiangreyhound]

Oh shit that sounds totally wrong.... "I think one problem' is that women are reaslising they don't have to have sex, and because some of us are not that interested in it, that means men are not getting it so often."

I don't think it is a problem for the women, of course! I mean that is why this is happening now! Because in the past women would not have felt able to say they were not into it, men probably would not have cared or even understood!

[Brokejoke]

Sounds like she might have a low sex drive and not really enjoy intimacy in any form. It might not be about him or anything he can change. All he can do is decide whether he is willing to continue with the marriage bearing this in mind.

Tbh, what you've described about her stalking him with the app sounds very controlling to me. I would not be happy at all with my dh doing that.

[Italiangreyhound]

DidILeaveTheGasOn "I am female and in a sexless marriage, I'm in my thirties, sometimes I don't really recognise my life compared to how it was before I met my now dh. It's difficult to maintain a marriage if there is an imbalance in needs. If one person would quite happily never have sex and the other person does not share that, then that person will end up unhappy. I am."

Can I ask if you have children or want them?

Has your dh been willing to explore why he feels like this, has he always felt lie this?

I hope you and the OP and her brother all find partners who will be in tune with their desires.

[SandyY2K]

The chances are she is no longer attracted to him and may be having sex elsewhere.

Jealousy is a trait in cheaters too and because your DB has her on a pedastel, she's safe in the knowledge that he's not going anywhere.

My Ex SIL had the same view... Notice she's an Ex. When my DB filed for a divorce, and had the shock of her life.

He's now happily married and the DC, that kept him in the marriage longer, love his wife and will spend time with her, even when my DB is travelling on business.

I suggest your DB builds other interests.. Like sport.. Hobbies and doesn't make her the centre of his life.

I bet she'd suddenly start wanting to swing from the chandeliers if he left her. She's coming across like a selfish Bitch.

[HappyJanuary]

Does she know how big an issue this is for him, that he's discussing it with other people as a major problem?

Does she have low self esteem or body confidence issues, and does your brother make her feel sexy and desired?

Does he pull his weight in the house and show her he loves her in other ways? Many women are turned off if their partner only turns on the charm when they want sex.

Has he ever pressured her for sex, or for some aspect she wasn't comfortable with?

Does he look at porn? Is she aware, and either disgusted by what genre he enjoys or saddened that she doesn't look like those women?

Has she ever had a violent or unwanted sexual experience that she's never told your brother about?

I'm sorry but you have no idea what her side of the story is - and we certainly don't.

[Italiangreyhound]

chillyogawine I am sorry you are going through a divorce and your brother is having problems.

I think not enjoying or not wanting sex is probably far more common than any of us realise. What is intersting/sad is that your SIL is willing to be so blunt about it and make it so clear. Either she is very sure your DB will not leave, or she secretly hopes he will (which doesn't seem right when you say she is quite jealous).

I don't understand this "...she tries it on coz she's drunk and feeling up for it he feels shit again as he is being used to fuifill her need and she might as well get a dildo in that case!" So sheis up for sex and he feels that she is somehow using him? That doesn't make sense to me. Presumably if she wanted a dildo she could buy one and use it privately and so the fact she does want to have sex seems a good thing.

Or does he suspect she is faking it because she is drunk.

"I will suggest he goes to counselling just for himself so he can work out what he wants" Good idea.

I agree with StrawberryJelly these are important questions...
"When did the loss of intimacy begin?
After children? If so, maybe there's issues around birth trauma or maybe she has lost her confidence?

Or perhaps she doesn't feel the passion for her man anymore? They should try and spend time together like a date night every so often to try and rekindle any kind of spark but a deep level of intimacy require communication and understanding. It must be hard for your brother not understanding why this is happening."

LwejiI am not sure what you mean, "It is odd that he's happy to have sex with her when she's drunk, but I realise that she hadn't told him before. Still, it doesn't sound like he respects her wishes in that area. He needs to back off." But wasn't the OP just saying he doesn't want to have sex with her when she is drunk?

I think one problem' is that women are reaslising they don't have to have sex, and because some of us are not that interested in it, that means men are not getting it so often.

OP if your SIL were open to the of an open marriage would your DB want that?

The thing is he is totally smitten with her so it is sad he will probably stay in the life that is making him unhappy.

[littleoldladywho]

Look if she has always been physically cold then it's a bit much for him to start whining about it now, when presumably he was okay about it before.
She sounds as though she has always been pretty open about this with your DB, and so it's pretty grim to be discussing it on an open forum really. I'm sure her openness about her lack of interest in sex, that she is happy to discuss with her husband (and has indeed always been a factor in their relationship) wasn't supposed to be picked over with his sister and half of the U.K.? I mean, maybe it will get in the fail too.

The situation has always been ok with your brother until you started your divorce. So your divorce is the catalyst that has made him think about whether or not he is happy with the situation. Your brother is the one who is considering whether he is happy to carry on as he always done, with the same wife he has always had, with her sex drive the same it has always been. Let's not make her the fall guy here. She has made her position clear. And it is of course fine for your brother to consider whether this is something he is happy with For the future. But it isn't new. Only his questioning of it is new. And that's ok. As long as the Internet doesn't start critiquing his wife, who has been very clear about how she feels and has done nothing wrong.

[Sample1936]

Gruffalosgrandma yes. The details are very weird and far too intimate. I wonder if op is actually the husband.

It's pretty obvious really. Give the wife counselling option and hopefully they'll either improve or understand and move on.

or divorce if she doesnt want to stating unreasonable behaviour.

[PortiaCastis]

Why do you know so much about your dbs sex life?

[CherryMintVanilla]

If I were still with my ex, I might think this was about me!

I had to get drunk to have sex with him, because I didn't find him attractive. It was one of those where he was perfect on paper, but while he fancied me a lot I didn't fancy him at all. I suppose it's easy for men to ignore that in the early stages because it just looks like you are being modest or playing hard to get? But I would initiate sex after drinking (it's why I drank) because it numbed the fact that I didn't want to have sex with him. I was very jealous too - but that was just my personality, nothing to do with him personally.

If she doesn't want him now she never will, and unless your DB thinks he can resign himself to a near sexless future he should just cut his losses and move on. My ex used to say that he "loved me enough for both of us, and fancied me enough for both of us" but it was nonsense. If you're not attracted to someone it really doesn't matter how attractive they find you.