Why do I act like this - is this A Thing?

[INXS]

Or am I just a horrible person?

I've always been a bit like this, but it's getting worse.

I really struggle in public spaces - especially on the street, or in doorways. I feel quite stupid about this, as I know it's difficult to understand why anyone could have such problems with such basic, everyday things.

For example, here's what happened today.

Walking into the library, on foot with toddler. A woman with a pram was approaching from the other side, plus a third woman inside the building, wanting to exit, visible through the glass doors.

We all arrived at the door at the same time. This in itself makes me really tense as I'd prefer not to have to interact with strangers, even non-verbally, if I can avoid it. But the worst part was that the woman with the pram kept looking at me, talking to me (I live in a country where I don't speak the local language) and obviously trying to get my attention. I didn't engage, as I couldn't, but stood well back to remove myself from the situation. She went through, then the woman inside stood back to let me through. I hate it when people do this, I don't know why. I avoided eye contact and continued to stand back.

Eventually Lady Inside got the message that I wasn't going to walk through, so she walked through herself and left.

But the woman with the pram was still there in the lobby, and still trying to engage with me. Eventually I held my hand up to my face, palm out, so I couldn't see her anymore and said in English, "leave me alone".

I know this was an awful way to behave, but I was honestly so agitated by this point that I just wanted to disappear. I felt observed, "pecked at", defensive.

What's wrong with me?

I know it's partly because I want to feel invisible - I detest feeling beholden to other people, even for something as simple as them holding a door open for me. But my behaviour must be mystifying (and seem really pathetic) to 'normal' people who are just going about their day.

Am I the only one?

[INXS]

"Today I found myself walking a long way round so I didn't have the awkwardness of trying to cross a road through a line of traffic queuing at a junction. I hate the whole will they let me across, will they not thing."

exactly! I detest crossing the street when it's not at a set of lights. That includes zebra crossings. If a car is approaching, I will pretend that I'm walking by (instead of crossing) so that they don't stop for me. I absolutely detest crossing in front of a waiting car.

[whirlygirly]

That's such a brilliantly comprehensive list. I fit a lot of F and G - I'm pretty sure I'm not on the spectrum, but ds is mildly. He presents in a very different way though.

Today I found myself walking a long way round so I didn't have the awkwardness of trying to cross a road through a line of traffic queuing at a junction. I hate the whole will they let me across, will they not thing.

[INXS]

"In this sort of situation maybe you could suddenly realise you had to send a text message on your phone and stand back out of the way poking at the phone until they go away..."

ravenmum I think this is a really good approach! I think eye contact is the big thing here. I could tell that the lady with the pram was desperate for me to look at her - now that I'm a bit calmer, it's clear she wanted to tell me something... wonder what it was!

I'm just getting sick of people stopping to try and talk to me on the street! I hate being 'bad' at stuff (in this case, not knowing the language) and get defensive when I feel vulnerable, and all these people stopping is is like a constant reminder that I can't communicate.

[ravenmum]

Sounds a bit like me too, though not all. Prosopagnasia - face blindness - is even on the list :)

[INXS]

Wow, pocketsaviour so much of that list is spot-on. This one jumped out at me!

All the steps involved in leaving the house are overwhelming and exhausting to think about

But there are so many others too. Almost all of them.

Thank you! So interesting!

[pocketsaviour]

Autism does present differently in women to men. It may often be missed as a diagnosis for girls for this reason.

There is a good checklist here
everydayaspie.wordpress.com/2016/05/02/females-with-aspergers-syndrome-checklist-by-samantha-craft/

It's entirely possible you may be on the spectrum to one degree or another, and ALSO have social anxiety (it's the gift that keeps on giving!)

[ravenmum]

I'm also very short-sighted and have problems recognising faces, so find it really hard to recognise my neighbours :) I have to hope they are standing in their actual drive, or have a really obviously recognisable dog or something!

[ravenmum]

I used to have severe social anxiety - unable to speak to people, in my case - and live in a foreign country where I didn't speak the language at first, so I can sympathise with you totally :)

Have kind of got over both hurdles now at the age of nearly fifty :)

In this sort of situation maybe you could suddenly realise you had to send a text message on your phone and stand back out of the way poking at the phone until they go away...

I'd also recommend CBT and/or other counselling. Are you in a country with a good health system? If so, might be worth looking for an English speaker who can help you rather than waiting to go to the UK. I'm in Germany and from what I've read on MN the mental health system here is a million times better!

In a foreign country it can be really annoying that to interact with others you have to out yourself as a foreigner (not always welcome ...) and that you can't say what you want, so potentially come across as stupid or rude (people do NOT consider that this effect might come from your language skils!). And no, you can't just learn the language to avoid this. You might learn to speak the local language reasonably well within a few years, but even after ten or fifteen years you are still not going to manage the subtleties of little jokes or exactly the right word to make the situation feel really comfortable.

Easy for others to say "you have to learn the language" but unless you've tried doing so from scratch as an adult and aiming for that kind of fluency, you simply have no clue what that involves!

[2018MyYear]

Oh darling. Go and get some help, if possible with this. It sounds awful.
My only RL experience of this was with my neighbour. My husband moved into this house 29 years ago (not with me!) Neighbour moved in a few years later. My husband is very socialable. In 25 years he. Couldn't get this man to say a neighbourly hello or look him in the eye. This made my husband think he was stuck-up and they have fallen out over petty things.
I turn up and get involved in Residents Assoc which neighbour runs via e-mail and does a very good job. We meet often. I have found out he is painfully shy and will ignore you when passing in the street until he knows you well. When I shout hello now he always gives me a look of being surprised. Then chats away merrily but can't look me in the eye.
Since I told my husband this he has been a lot more forgiving.
You are not alone. Find a so,ution that works for you.
Must go because my 'thing' is wasting time on social media in my dressing gown on my days off, then moaning to my DH that he does nothing around the house. 😂Good luck.

[Foxysoxy01]

If it is more anxiety than autism then really the only thing that is going to help is to keep doing the things that scare/trigger you most.

It's really shit and for the first while is awful but doing it over and over is the only way to make it easier.

Can you try some positive affirmations like ' I am a confident capable person' over and over to yourself really regularly and then small baby steps like decide you are going to make quick eye contact with a certain person, say your positive affirmations, make eye contact for a second then look away. Do this a few times then build up to eye contact and small smile etc etc.

[Bloopbleep]

Social anxiety sounds more likely given what you've shared than something like autism. It won't be helped by not speaking the local language. Online self tests don't really help because you don't always recognise in yourself traits others may see in you from an external assessment, they also are based on stereotypes.

I guess you need to work out what's the worst thing that can happen if you interact with these people? You can fake confidence and eye contact (look at the nose and mouth and smile- works every time) -maybe allocate 10minutes to interacting non verbally at first -just head nodding, smiling, opening doors - all the wee things you're struggling with and build from there.

[INXS]

ItShouldHaveBeenJingleJess I would be fascinated to read the other thread - can you link to it? Is it the one Bertie mentions?

[ItShouldHaveBeenJingleJess]

I love your honesty, and I can relate to a lot of what you say. I live near a busy main road and quite often, cars will stop and let me and DS cross. I am able to wave a 'thank you' but sometimes it pisses me off and I'm never quite sure why. Likewise with doors. I don't really like social interaction but am able to fake it. I posted on a thread yesterday about this, it worries me as DS has been diagnosed with autism, but, like you, I fit SOME of the criteria but not all. Thanks for posting this, has made me feel a little less weird!

[INXS]

BertieBotts just found the thread. Thank you so much. Going to read it tonight, it's exactly what I've been looking for.

OneWithTheForce I have DuoLingo - now I need to use it!

Once I have mastered the basics of where to find food, etc etc... Thank you so much.

[INXS]

babyunicornvomit I just did a test online here

socialanxietyinstitute.org

and got 33 out of 90.

The questions were really thought-provoking!

Some areas - like getting up and reading aloud from a book - I have absolutely zero problems with.

Having to make a work phone call to someone I've not spoken to before, where other people can hear me? Pretty much my nightmare.

[INXS]

"I just don't want to be seen a lot of the time, I want to be left alone. I told my counsellor that I'm a very easily forgotten person and she said it's because I don't want people to remember me and my behaviour causes that response."

I could have written this. I'd be really grateful to hear anything else you have to say TrustYourself as you sound further along in your journey than I am!

[OneWithTheForce]

I can't help with the anxiety, other than to say "fake it til you make it" it's the only thing that has worked for me. I had and still have to force myself into uncomfortable situations and in much less time than you would imagine, I find I am having conversations and interactions comfortably. By far the biggest help was getting a job in retail. No choice but to speak to people and now I'm very comfortable. Still have some hairy moments but on the whole I am a lot happier.

WRT the language: immersion. You need to have the TV/radio etc on all the time, do as much reading as you can, make sure you are taking time to read and try and work out things like street signs, shop signs, fliers etc. and apps like Duolingo are great for doing five minutes while you're sitting having a cuppa.

[BertieBotts]

There is a suspected asd support thread if you look in topics under special needs/mumsnet tees with special needs.

Learn the phrase 'sorry, my (language) isn't good', it's helpful for diffusing these things.

[INXS]

Trustyourself2 this is exactly it!

I have a relative who is always trying to do things for me, but gets them wrong somehow - holding doors open in such a way that I can't get through, hovering when I don't want to be observed, that sort of thing.

I really struggle to be around this person, especially walking around on the street, because the way they move around spaces is the complete opposite of the way I do - they move slowly, hold people up, it makes me want to sink into the ground.

[INXS]

lananzack yes exactly. Is it really common?

The thing is that I don't really suffer from other symptoms. It is really just moving around in public spaces. Maybe it's the stranger thing.

[INXS]

"If you are living permanently in another country you DO need to know the language."

I know Deathray but we moved here very recently under difficult circumstances so it's not at the top of my priorities right now.

I definitely want some coping strategies, I guess that is part of what I am asking for really.

Re. thanking people - I absolutely understand the value of this, in fact I can go over the top sometimes. But that is another part of why I struggle in these sorts of situations. I feel obliged to thank people for things (like holding doors open) that I don't actually want them to do.

Example: when someone [almost always a man] holds the door open for you in the "wrong" way. Instead of standing on the edge of the door, holding it open, they stand sort of in the doorway, so you have to squeeze by them, or they hold it open in a awkward way so you have to sort of duck under their arm to get through.

This sort of situation makes me incredibly uncomfortable - and I resent having to thank someone for putting me in it!

[Deathraystare]

Sorry, not implying that you are being rude. I just mean that I am more concerned with being thought rude than feeling awkward in those situations.

[Deathraystare]

If you are living permanently in another country you DO need to know the language. Is it the sort of country where people engage with strangers more so than here? Perhaps the fact you where with your child. In some countries they love to chat to mums and kids.

As someone else poster you need some coping strategies for dealing with these everyday facts of life otherwise your child will be copying you.

The guy in the car that stopped for you - well I would only have crossed the road if it was obviously clear both sides as it has happend that one person stops for me but the other side didn't.

I understand in a way because I am quite shy but am pretty good at interacting with strangers now. I was brought up with manners and know the importance of thanking people, letting them through or being gracious when they hold the door for me. If you find it hard to manage try an apologetic shrug and smile - a kind of "oops silly me". If they see you smiling (no matter how awkwardly) they are less inclined to think you are being unfriendly.

[springydaffs]

Light bulb moment for me - my mum!

I don't think these symptoms are particularly unusual, op. But I do wince at the way you talk about yourself. Please don't do that

[lananzack]

I second it likely being social anxiety. I, too, actively avoid any interaction with people in public. And I have also done/said some unintentionally rude things to avoid social situations. I genuinely get a bit panicky if a stranger does something I have to respond to (including holding doors open for me etc) - feel on the spot! I do believe it's quite common actually.