I am bullying my partner

[loopdesoup]

Help.
I'm not expecting kindness here, but advice would be good.
Partner and I have been together for a number of years, we have 2 DCs together. Yesterday I asked DP why he seemed reluctant to marry, it has always been what we have both wanted and yet, it still hasn't happened. I am ready to marry. DP tells me he's still not ready to marry me yet, but wants to. We dis cussed the reasons why.
He feels bullied by me. I agree that I can be quite venomous with my words and am in therapy for depression (have been for 3 years.) Talked about this before with my counsellor who seems to believe it's a side effect of DPs neglect for my thoughts and feelings. He can be very cold, lazy and slobbish at times, making v little effort around the house or with himself. I'm not sure this is really an adequate excuse for the way I'm making him feel though.
I asked DP to do what makes him happy and to look after his self-esteem and to leave me. I love him and he deserves better than to be worn down by my often nasty outbursts.
He says he loves me and doesn't want to leave.
I've no idea what else I can do? I'm in counselling, I have rages sometimes that make me feel so angry towards him; he can be so ignorant of my needs and our family's needs that I then become nasty with him. He says I speak to.him like dirt..
I know it's not excuse.
I don't want to be a bully.
I don't want my children witnessing me being a bully towards their father.
I don't want DP to have to be with me like this.
I want to get married
I want us to be healthy and happy
He doesn't want to separate. I'm trying to break these behaviours in sessions with my counsellor, but often it boils down to my frustration with DP. What can I do now?

[Kikikaakaa]

Well said Gobbelin

[gobbelinothewitchescat]

The OP titled the thread I'm bullying my husband, and then got annoyed that we didn't think she was being brainwashed into believing she was a bully. I'm sorry but it certainly reads like OP came on here to find justification for her abusive behaviour.
Man or woman, abuse is abuse and we shouldn't accept any justification for it, if his passivity angers her she should leave, the fact that OP instead chooses to stay and engage in bullying behaviour by her own admission highlights concerns about her own decision making. Asking what about the children isn't to have a go at her, it's to highlight that children will also do things to annoy her and be lazy or refuse to do what she wants them to, and it is very important for their emotional well being that their care giver should not believe that being angered by someone else's actions means it is acceptable to ever react the way she has told us she is behaving to her husband. It is never ok to be abusive or bullying to anyone regardless of how they have behaved to her. There is a clear difference between being abusive and bullying and standing up for yourself. OP doesn't sound like she sees the difference or that she recognises this, and that is why I am concerned for her children's safety. As for her partner, just because he is a man it doesn't change the advice I would give him if he came to a shelter - abuse is abuse and people behave how they choose to behave. No one deserves to be bullied and no one makes anyone else scream, shout or behave in an intimidating way to them. He isn't responsible for how she behaves, just like she isn't responsible for how he behaves.

[Kikikaakaa]

I don't believe that there is only one way to skin a cat. I think there's an even split of varying opinions for OP to take on board or discard as she chooses to.

[maggiemaye]

OP is getting a hard time here completely unnecessarily! She clearly accessed mumsnet as a means of asking for advice on her next move. Merely telling her to leave and piling on guilt about the effects on children is quite frankly unhelpful and soul destroying! Nothing is ever clear cut and OP has given reasons for her outbursts which have come towards the end of the thread and needed mentioning at the beginning. She was probably feeling guilty and doesnt feel she had a right to defend herself, but in hindsight explained why. But when you look at his behaviour , it becomes quite clear he's not the only "victim" if we all floated around being lazy and inconsiderate I'm sure we would become the cause of frustration for many too! His passivity is abusive in itself. Granted they need to part ways, but OP also needs support not flaming! It's ridiculous that people are becoming annoyed that the situation isn't as imagined by most in the beginning of the thread.... never is though!

[gobbelinothewitchescat]

Kiki - I have to agree. The post starts with the OP admitting how she is bullying her DP and asking for help, but when people point out how damaging her behavior is she justifies it by saying he is the abuser and controls / belittles her so her anger and fury at him is justified.
OP - what did you want from this thread? Justification for being a bully or help with it? I have worked and studied both abusers and the abused, and the abuser very rarely owns their behavior. How many times have I heard: you'd hit her too, embarrassing me in front of people / telling me what to do / interfering. It's always deflected to the victim. Its always the victim's fault. If you really think your behavior is either ok or a justified reaction to anyone else's shortcomings or behavior, then think about your children. What happens when they speak out of turn to you, or are lazy? Will you bully them too? Please don't let strangers on the internet help you blinker yourself to what you were coming to realize. Bullying is never ok - and you have already admitted to being one. Get help and keep getting help, don't start victim blaming.

[Kikikaakaa]

I think there is an element here that OP may have liked to find reassurance that her rage was justified because he's a lazy and disrespectful man himself.
There are a lot of stories of abuse on these pages but not all men are abusive, some of them are just below par partners. Also plenty of women are below par partners too.
It's an active choice whether you stay and build a future with him.
You certainly do not bring out the best in one another that's for sure.

[KateDaniels2]

I dont get this OP. You started the thread and admitted you are venomous. Then say you are annoyed that people didnt decide you were been manipulated into thinking you are abusive.

You are fixated on the wedding. Because thats what you want.

It sounds, to me, like you arent compatible. You are both acting in ways that will only end in damaging your kids.

He sounds shit, but the rages arent excused by this. You need to deal with that whatever happens in this relationship.

You have kids. When they are teens they will be slobby and lazy, are you hoing to rage and spit venom at them?

You dont want that. So sort yourself out, put yiur kids first and end the relationship.

[Kikikaakaa]

I don't buy the 'poor' bloke part but I sure do think 'poor kids'.

Surely you should be trying to give them a stable calm family environment to live in. This isn't it.

He's lazy and you cannot keep trying to scream at him into changing. That's how he is. Rightly or wrongly. You chose to be with him and have kids with him despite knowing that this is him, and now it's infuriating you that he isn't a better partner. Yeah admittedly he would piss me off too. You are not compatible and you are in denial

You aren't a team
There is no partnership
You are setting a bad example to your kids

[PovertyJetset]

YOU ARE NOT WELL MATCHED AND TO MARRY WOULD BE A DISASTER

You both sound the worst version of yourselves.

What is there to fix?

Why aren't you being honest with yourself??

[schrodcat]

loopdesoup... I think you're only way to deal with this is to leave. If the logical place to leave vomit is for you to clear up (rather than pop it in the old washing machine and ... switch it on!) then I think your DP is really trying to tell you something. You are the vomit-clearer. He has some telly-watching to do. I appreciate you may well be poorer, but can you imagine how much more peaceful you will feel if you have your own flat, your own hall, with nobody to leave vomit in it but you (and your DC, obv) if you so choose...? You do not have to be a shouty person. Take yourself away from this constant trigger.

[SuperBeagle]

He sounds like a nob, but what you've said about him is at odds with your desire to marry him...

Sounds like a really unhealthy environment for your children to be in.

[SuperBeagle]

Once every 1-2 weeks is way too bloody often to be on the end of someone's (self-confessed) venomous rage.

Now you're trying to play it off like you've been manipulated by this man into thinking you're a bully. Bloody hell.

The poor bloke.

[loopdesoup]

What do you think?
Bullying example:
I come home from the gym to discover a sick covered top from one of our children sitting on top of the laundry basket lid in the hallway.
I say "you know that sick covered top in the hall? How come you've not put it in the basket?"
"Because it's covered in sick" He says
I reply "in that case why leave it in the hall? Can you remove it please?"
I wait 10 minutes and return to find it still there. He has re-adjusted hos position in his arm chair and switched on the TV.
Me " is there a reason you haven't moved the sick top?"
Him "I'm not moving it right now, ok?!"
Usually I'd escalate into a full blown "you're so lazy and disgusting and...... and aaaahh" And say something nasty and upset him. Tonight, I just walked away and threw the top in the washing machine myself.
How do I deal with this stuff without turning into a psychopath?

[PovertyJetset]

You're not well marched. Be honest about that and give yourselves permission to move on.

Have a look on yougov and see what you're entitled to. Sort out your finances. Talk to your close friends and seek their support.

[Kikikaakaa]

He needs to understand that it takes 2 people to make a relationship work. And that most likely means counselling, whether couple or individual IMO

You need to drop the marriage part to him, and explain how the very foundations of your relationship are damaged

[loopdesoup]

OK, I'm getting a clearer picture here.
I also don't think that he's intentionally abusive, just naturally nit-picky and a little controlling. Not to excuse his behaviours; just trying to give a clearer picture of him as a person.
So what do I do now?
I can't leave just yet; I need to think about how/when/where etc etc. How do I protect myself from going insane in the mean time? I've spent the last few days in tears since posting on MN, feel utterly drained and can't stop thinking about what to do next.
As usual, DP is burying his head in the sand. Must be able to see something is wrong, but ignores the fact, however he is more touchy than usual. Amazing how some men pull closer as you begin to pull away!

[smurfit]

I've been in a similar situation. My ex treated me badly, in turn I had emotional outbursts which were nasty. I was the one trying to fix things all the time etc etc. Now don't get me wrong, I behaved appallingly on occasion but it was most definitely caused by the situation. Many friends have said I lost my personality for a while there.

You can't fix your relationship unless he's going to help you.

[GloriaGaynor]

The control, the interference, the questioning, the standing over you - that's going into abusive territory, I don't think anyone can live like that and stay sane and un-angry.

[GloriaGaynor]

Let's tally the total:

He interferes in all I do
He questions my logic, my decisions, everything I buy, everything I do.
Hovers over me when I'm cooking/cleaning/driving and tells me how I can do it 'properly'
He won't listen
He doesn't desire sex
He corrects me when I'm talking to others
He offers very little emotional support when I'm upset
He waits for me to make decisions before making any sort of change himself then stubbornly stands in the way
He doesn't take care of himself

In addition:

Neglects your thoughts and feelings.
Cold
Lazy and slobbish at times
Makes v little effort around the house or with himself
Refuses to marry you despite having two kids

No wonder you're furious. I think you need to stop criticising yourself and consider that it may not be that you're inherently angry, but that this relationshop is making you angry.

But he's right not to marry, because this is a terrible relationship.

[Kikikaakaa]

I agree with Sandy. It sounds like you want someone who he is not, and you want the marriage for what it represents for you and are prepared to go through with it even if it's toxic.
He isn't the person you want him to be, and this frustration is boiling over. He has to actually want to change to change into this ideal man who doesn't make you feel like this.
I also wouldn't want my DC to grow up in this kind of environment, where my DH doesn't respect me or want any intimacy.
I just think it's flogging a dead horse with the marriage - it wouldn't fix you or him. Added to the fact he has no desire to get married or have sex. I totally get your reasons for wanting to do it but it's got a massive flaw in it - he doesn't want to.
I think you need to accept this is what your relationship looks like unless you can reconnect emotionally (not with a wedding) and really make it work

[honeyroar]

I agree with Sandy.

I've been there. Wedding arranged, pecking away at each other, me particularly, and in the end he had an affair and we broke up. I'm actually pleased about that now, many years later, it saved me from a bad relationship and I do think I was probably more bothered about being married because we'd been together a good few years, than I should have been. I'm not saying leaving isn't horrible or upsetting, I don't think anyone is.

[loopdesoup]

Good for you Sandy.
You make leaving sound so easy.

"It seems you are fixated on a wedding" How on earth did you manage that conclusion from what I've said?

[SandyY2K]

It looks like the bad in him outweights the good. You feel he's there by default, but from what you've said, the same could apply to you. I question if you really love a man who undermines you, corrects you, doesn't think you can do anything without hovering over you, interfers, questions your logic and doesn't want sex with you.

Can't you see marriage would be disastrous?

It seems that you are fixated on a wedding (and being Mrs x x), not a healthy relationship or marriage.

You need to focus on having a healthy relationship (physically and emotionally), either with him or someone else, that would be an example to your DC.

I wouldn't be in a relationship where my DC see my DH treat me that way. For a DD, she should know it's not okay to tolerate it and a DS needs to know it's not okay to speak to a girl/woman like that.... I otherwise the cycle just repeats itself.

[lollypophairball]

God, having read your latest post, he's most definitely the bully, not you.

See I don't agree. I think he's defending himself in a passive aggressive way. Yes the situation is dysfunctional and he's got a starring role but I don't think either one is The Bad Guy here.

[PovertyJetset]

You must be very lonely to settle for this.

I feel sorry that you feel like it's worth sticking around for and even marriage. It's like you're walking headlong into a car crash willingly. Give your head a wobble.