Which comes first? The feeling or the thought?

[pumbarumba]

Any psychology experts would be fab, otherwise anyone who has an opinion on the matter:
I'm currently having some counselling/CBT with an excellent counsellor who has helped me tremendous amounts. That's until very recently. I've become a little low by something they keep preaching to me, as I just don't get it.
He says that we have control over our thoughts. Yes perfectly reasonable. I get this. However, he also keeps telling me and giving me material which states that thoughts also govern our feelings.
I've felt a lot of resentment towards DH over recent weeks due to his busy lifestyle choices whilst I've been going through a very close bereavement. My counsellor keeps asking me to put myself in his shoes and to try to think more positively about his actions. It's due to the high standards and demands that he places on himself that he does this.
But, regardless of what I try to think, I can't help but feel completely resentful towards him. It's not that I'm thinking negative thoughts but more a feeling that sweeps over me that makes me not want to be anywhere near him when I'm feeling let down.
I feel like I'm constantly failing at this "try to control your thoughts to control your feelings" thing. Surely, we feel how we feel and there's not a lot we can do about it, other than compare our feelings with the facts and then try to be constructive?
To me I feel neglected, the facts are that he's busy and not around much to lighten the load. How can I then control my thoughts on the matter to be more positive? Finding it very hard work and beating myself up for not quite getting it.

[noego]

[rosabug]

i think if you are going away thinking or feeling bad or not understanding something that is making you confused or feel a failure - then it is your therapist at fault. I've had 3 terrific therapists and 2 poor ones, and I don't mean just not right for me, I mean poor. I suspect this therapist is good enough but not top notch and/or not right for you. You can't force a hypothesis on someone, sounds like he is trying to 'persuade' rather than guide you through self awareness. Therapists can challenge you, but you have to feel it's a challenge with point, and that they like, support and understand you through the challenge. Don't feel bad - it's your money, shop around - the right therapist is worth their weight in gold. I remember F, H and L with much gratitude, but not the one who left her empty crisp packet and coke can (breakfast apparently!) on the table between us.

[SmellySphinx]

Hi! I've not had councelling myself of any sort but this kind of councelling seems a little like brainwashing! Ok, more "brain training" techniques and as some or most of what he has taught (wrong word?) you have found useful so maybe take from this counceller what you find useful and find another one (not easy I can imagine, but...) who would be beneficial to you in other ways. As far as I know, which ain't much cbt is more of a coping straregy technique thingy which like I say, has partly worked for you, so great!

I do agree that in times of stress you could learn to deal and cope with your feelings with positive thought rather than letting negative feelings highten anxiety but I think you need to work through feelings sometimes rather than over riding them with positive thoughts

. I reckon councelling is good for opening up and viewing different situations in different lights.

Overriding the feelings by controlling thoughts seems a little robotic to me.

I'm probably wrong, wrong and wrong again as I have little experience so feel free to ignore me but that's my two pennuth!

[Allfednonedead]

And this is the problem with a lot of CBT. I've had a CBT counsellor tell me that thought comes before feeling to the point that you can walk on a broken leg if you choose not to believe it's broken!
The same man told me I think too much. He was very surprised when I terminated the counselling, which told me a lot about his level of empathy and intuition.
CBT can be great for lots of situation, but it's pretty sticking plaster for a lot of things.

[pumbarumba]

I really value my therapist as he's excellent when it comes to making decisions, driving things forward and being practical. I've been researching different types of therapy and discovered that maybe a person centred approach is better following a bereavement? I may look into counsellors that offer this and then go back to my current counsellor once my emotions have calmed and I've managed to release them in a sensible way.

[Streuth]

Surely, we feel how we feel and there's not a lot we can do about it, other than compare our feelings with the facts and then try to be constructive?

I actually think you put it pretty well OP!

Feelings ....

I think feelings can tell us alot, and more to the point are part of who we are!!!! .

Feelings can also be warnings. They can also help set our boundaries. As I said they are also part of who we are and can be amazing!!!!!!!!!!!! e.g. the beautiful sunset moving us to tears - a cliche but its a good feeling we can enjoy :-). Of course difficult or sad feelings are not so enjoyable - though I believe if we truly and deeply experience them - rather than run away from them which is what most people do - they can be a gateway and liberation to deeper consciousness (and thought).
Thoughts can help us "understand" our feelings, or give them a wider context.

I think where CBT comes in, is to try and control or 'correct' some irrational feelings. E.g. an irrational fear of socks or spiders. Or "catastrophising". But I think you have to be really careful with CBT. Sometimes even someone who appears to be "irrational" e.g. "irrationally" sensitive or fearful of rejection - may have other deeper and for them valid reasons for their feelings that a CBT counsellor concerned with "results" may prefer to ignore.

I am not clear why your counsellor is using CBT during a bereavement, I agree with whichever poster said that.

Sometimes counsellors can be excellent but its time to move on. Either you don't agree with them about something fundamental, or you've just gone as far as you can with that person. Most people who have had serious therapy I would say have seen at least a couple of different therapists - unless they were really lucky.

[AtSea1979]

OP I think you'be hit the nail on the head, not taking things too personally. I think if you can do that then you might crack it.

[Confusednotcom]

Do you think you might be projecting some sadness or anger at the bereavement onto DH? I totally understand you want him to be there for you, but I know men and women who just aren't wired that way. I agree with AtSea that the approach your counsellor is taking has a realistic chance of making you happier if you want to buy into it. I don't for a minute suggest that you should suppress your feelings or your disappointment that DH is not there for you when you need him. But in the real world, not an idealised version, perhaps you could look to friends or relatives for support. I am not condoning DHs behaviour, just being practical and looking for positive things you can do at such a sad time.

[pumbarumba]

Makes some sense At sea. Thanks.
And to others too. I think that feeling how I feel is a good thing to go with right now but try not to take things too personally either.

[AtSea1979]

OP I'm guessing there's a reason your therapist has advised this. I guess he knows you can't change DH and it's making you miserable and you refused to leave DH so your therapist is trying to protect your sanity by helping you feel better about things. As others have said, some of your 'feelings' are actually thoughts not feelings, so they are the things that need adapting (should you follow the CBT). I think the therapist wants you to (instead of thinking you are neglected) think about DH actions in terms of him. You DH didn't do these actions to make you think you are neglected he did them because...only you know the rest of the sentence. You therapist wants you to move the negative focus off yourself.

[Isadora2007]

You have the answers -
" DH is just so busy with extra work, other commitments and hobbies, he hasn't slowed down to spend time with me at all. "

Yet at the start you said it's because of his high demands he placed on himself. But when you explore this further the hurt and sad emotion coming from the feeling of neglect is because your husband is prioritising other things above you and your relationship. This is valid for you and valid for you to explore and not to try to change your feelings about as they are a valid feeling when you're being put low on the list of important duties by your husband.
If you've recently had a bereavement this neglect will feel worse and may even be bringing up other times on your life you have felt second (or third, fourth?) best down the list of importance.
Whilst cbt has its place in counselling I would be asking the therapist if they can use basic core counselling skills for the next few sessions to allow you to explore your feelings and where they're coming from without any cbt for now. And you will find your own way and your own answers.

[maggiethemagpie]

For example, I found out a friend had had a party and not invited me. Felt very upset and let down.

I later found out that she'd actually only invited a specific group of friends from a baby group who all knew each other, that I didn't know.

I reinterpreted this and realised that it might have bit a bit weird to invite me when everyone else knew each other. I then no longer saw it as a rejection of me and went from really upset to just slightly miffed that she'd chosen to celebrate this way.

I didn't try and force myself to not feel let down when I first found out she'd had the party (before I knew who had been invited). As it was appropriate for me to feel upset at that point.

Does that make sense?

[BumDNC]

IMO the only way to manage resentment in the way your counsellor suggests is to stop caring at all. Which isn't ideal
I cannot get my head around how you are supposed to stop feeling and thinking that way when clearly you cannot because nothing is changing

[WispyWindy]

Having experienced an unsupportive partner (or at least not supporting me in the way I hoped and expected) following a bereavement it has taken me a long time to be able go trust DH again. I've had to go through a long process of feeling angry and let down, and the basically get over it by trying to strengthen our relationship and talk about problems together. At some point I suppose I made a conscience decision to move forward from a position of pain and wondering whether our relationship could survive the sense of betrayal I felt. However, it was a long, organic process, tied in with other aspects of dealing with my grief and related depression. I would not have welcomed the suggestions from your counsellor, certainly not within a year of the bereavement. Also suggest you find a new counsellor who first focuses on you rather than your DH.

[AcidBird]

I have never had CBT but have had another talking therapy. One of the things I learned there is that sometimes anger, frustration or disappointment can be the reasonable and sane response to a rubbish situation. I don't know if this applies in your case but would be wary of a therapist who thought that all problems can be solved by changing the way you think about them. Sometimes it is the situation that we need to change.

[maggiethemagpie]

Don't deny your feelings OP. If you feel neglected as a result of your interpretation of your DH's behaviour, you have to accept that.

IN TIME you may come to a different interpretation, and have different feelings as a result. But you can't force it.

You feel how you feel. Very dangerous to deny or resist your true feelings.

[kittybiscuits]

It sounds as if you are being pushed to think differently. Asked to explore alternative thoughts would be fine, but not nudged to think/feel a particular way. That's poor CBT. Can you say this to the therapist? It would be good if you could. His beliefs seem to be getting in the way.

[SaltySeaDog72]

Agree you can't use CBT to resolve relationship problems. Because these are, y'know, relational. You can't fix it on your own if it's not all about you. Sounds like psychotherapy for you would be better. This is about having a better relationship with yourself. Which makes it easier to gain perspective and confidence to assert your needs and therefore address issues with others.

[pumbarumba]

DH is reluctant to go to counselling as he says he will not talk to a complete stranger about personal things. He's very closed off in general though, even with his closest friends.

[BumDNC]

I'm not sure CBT is the right arena for some issues - this is a relationship problem, not your skewed perception.

I had this once in counselling. They were trying to help me but I kept coming back to all the feelings of resentment towards my (now ex) dp. Because he wasn't in the counselling everything was focused on what I could do to change but like you, it was things I wasn't in control of changing because they related to him/us. If the counsellor is trying to move you past the resentment then this may not work because fundamentally you need to address this with the person you feel resentful to, not go off and do background work about how to stop feeling that way.

That's my opinion anyway. I got so much out of CBT and counselling but ultimately my resentment was something I could only sort out with my partner. And he wouldn't go to counselling with me.

Would your DH?

[pumbarumba]

Hermonie: I think I just want his time so that I can go for a walk and be sad if I want to, talk about how I'm feeling and not feel I have the weight of the world on my shoulders. DH is just so busy with extra work, other commitments and hobbies, he hasn't slowed down to spend time with me at all. I can't remember the last time we had a date night, or even just sat and had a conversation. Whenever I try to talk about how I'm feeling, he's always pressing for time because he's something else he needs to do... he works V hard, but he could have slowed things down a little to give me a bit of breathing space, or hey, buy me a bunch of flowers?

[Hermonie2016]

CBT is useful when you have thinking errors but feeling resentful for your DH's lack of support could be valid, does she go through the scenarios with you and challenge your thinking?

What is your H doing or not doing that you want him to change? If for example you want him to take time off work and he really can't because of pressures for his job that maybe unrealistic.

In my case when I had pneumonia I wanted stbxh to take time off work (which he didn't even try to do) so that I didn't have to do the afternoon school run and could stay in bed and recover (as the dr told me to ). No amount of changing my thinking was going to help that situation.

However if you are looking for emotional support and your H is trying to be supportive but can't say the right words but is helping you in other practical ways than that could be different. Some people just aren't good at saying the right things in bereavement situations but could offer practical support.

If he is going about his life with no impact whilst you are overloaded and you have asked for support then he is selfish.

[dailyshite]

Just reread the OP. Your thought is that you're being neglected, your feeling (I guess) is sad, angry etc.

Neglected isn't a feeling or emotion.

[dailyshite]

This is a basic premise of CBT,

A - activating event
B - belief about the event
C - consequence (feelings and behaviour)

All are then intertwined, so its bloody hard to separate them out. Its definitely not easy, at all.

Sounds a bit clumsy how he has said it though, more like psychoeducation than actual therapy.

[SaltySeaDog72]

I've had analytical psychotherapy. 'Y therapist always maintained that feelings 'just are'.

If you are going through a close bereavement your feelings are injured and I can't fathom why you are being asked to consciously interrupt that process.

I would give you these

And suggest a break from this therapy while you go through this bereavement (the only way is 'through')

Or reconsider a different mode of therapy and/or a different therapist.

So sorry for your loss