Family split - all my fault

[JayoftheRed]

This could be long, feel free to go elsewhere...

My husband's mother is a massive narcissist. She ticks every box. She has invented a fee extra boxes. My FIL is the classic enabler, allows her to do and say whatever she likes for a peaceful life. I get that he has to live with her but I have no respect for him. He's nice enough but I never forget that he allows her to treat her children the way she does.

Things have been building for a while, since February 2015 when she stopped speaking to my husband for 6 weeks because he said something that offended her. Please note: he said nothing offensive but she still took offence.

Instead of speaking to him and telling him she was hurt, she just blanked him for 6 weeks. The only reason she started speaking to him again is because I threatened to take our son away. She didn't fix things for my husband or their relationship, but because she was worried she'd lose her grandson.

Fast forward 18 months, and things aren't much better. She speaks now, but it's quite clear she has no time for or interest in my husband, she is only interested in our children.

There is a lot of stuff that happened before last February, but he's always just put up with it. I've never really understood why as I am the sort if person who would just walk away from such a destructive person (and have done) but he's always been scared to stand up to her.

Over the last couple of months, things have got worse. He asked her to meet him for lunch but she refused saying she had no reason to go into town, meaning that she wouldn't make the effort to see him unless she was already there for something else. She all but stopped speaking when she found out from my mum instead of him that my brother and his wife were expecting and when he put his foot down and told her he would only be visiting once a fortnight. We think those are the reasons anyway - as usual she's just not talking to him, although she will say the bare minimum so he can't accuse her of it.

Finally today she came round to collect my eldest for the day and there was a misunderstanding between me and her about something that happened on Saturday, which resulted in her telling me my husband was a liar and I shouldn't believe anything he says. I wouldn't have this, I won't have her calling him names like that. I said how dare she speak about him like that and she said she knew him better than me (she doesn't, she knows nothing about him) and he's always been a liar. Well, he's never lied to me, and I won't have it.

I spoke to my husband afterwards and he has said this is the last straw, he's on the verge of going completely no contact with her. Despite wanting this for years, I now feel like I've pushed him into it before he's ready, it was my mistake that made her accuse him of lying. Although she should never have said it.

I don't know what I'm looking for

[bakewelltarty]

Look forgive me if I'm wrong but I think she affects you more than him. I think that you and your feelings affect him. He wants to keep you happy. He knows his mother isn't perfect and they have a difficult relationship but he obviously does not feel ready to never speak to her again and to take her grandchildren from her. it's a monumental decision.

You want her out of your lives but deep down feel guilty. Why the guilt if she is truly such a narcissist? You admit you caused the latest upset but still blame her behaviour as the catalyst for this decision. Maybe she didn't handle it right but maybe she thought she was being called a liar.

I dont know if the behaviours you describe are narcissistic. Maybe they are and I'm completely wrong. What I would do though is back off, stop talking about it (as this may make him feel pressurised) and let him make the final decision.

I hope things work out well for you all.

[ohfourfoxache]

Not selfish at all- I actually feel quite sorry for your SIL now though. Your mil really has done a number on both of them, hasn't she?

[JayoftheRed]

Good point ravenmum!

ohfor SIL doesn't have any children, she's only just moved out of the family home for the first time in July at the age of 32. She is also very damaged by it all, she can barely function without her mum, she goes to their house for nearly every meal and those she doesn't, she has ready meals in the microwave. MIL has a key to her flat and goes in while SIL is at work to clean for her, and naturally goes poking through everything. I really feel for her too, it's not her fault, but I do wish she had kids, just to take the pressure off us a bit! Selfish I know.

[ravenmum]

Don't even think about taking the blame. One martyr in the family is enough, surely?

[ohfourfoxache]

I feel so, so sorry for him- it's an absolutely awful position to be in.

I think there is a book called Toxic Parents (Susan Forward?) that he would probably hugely benefit from reading. I'm midway through Toxic Inlaws and it's really helpful.

After reading your last post about SIL, remember that if she has been brought up think that this is normal then her own dc could also suffer from her toxicity. Just be prepared and mindful that you might have a dn who is going through what your dh went through as an innocent vulnerable child

[JayoftheRed]

bakewell you do understand that we're not considering going NC based on this one argument where I was wrong, don't you? There is a list of stuff, going back to childhood, that make her a narcissist.

• She controlled every aspect of his life: the books he read, the TV he watched, the clothes he wore, his hobbies... He plays the piano, and when he played the music she liked, all was well, and when he played stuff he liked, she would shut the door on him.
  

• His sister (the golden child) had permission from the parents to go through his bedroom, and then they would take the piss out if him later at whatever she might have found. He had no privacy. She still does this today, I cannot have her in the house without supervision as she goees through our bedroom then makes nasty comments about it later. When I've actually caught her in the room and asked her what she's doing, she just giggled and walked away.
  

She gaslights like a pro. Every single incident she either doesn't remember, therefore it didn't happen,or she twists it all so she is the victim /hero. She is rude but in a very clever way so you don't realise until it's too late to say anything.

You're right bakewell I'm certain she doesn't like me, because I won't be controlled. When she demanded she have DS1 every Wednesday when I went on maternity leave, I said no, because funnily enough, I wanted to spend some time with him. She literally stamped her foot and had a tantrum, rang my husband at work amd told him to sort it.

We talked last night, he's utterly torn. He desperately wants to get her out of our lives but is really scared to actually do it. I'm trying to not make the decision for him. I offered to take the blame but he wants it to come from.him because ultimately she needs to know the damage she's done.

[bakewelltarty]

It's her fault because she admits that it was her mistake that caused her MIL to call her DH a liar.

So basically she has argued with her MIL and been adamant about something that wasn't true. In defending herself her MIL said the DH must be lying and then things have got out of hand.

[SandyY2K]

How is it your fault? It's not. She's the problem and I agree with your DH. I'd go total NC with her.

You did the right thing telling him what she said. Your loyalty is to him and not her.

[Cherryskypie]

Your DS is 3? He'll quickly forget her. Get him away from her before she can damage him too.

[bakewelltarty]

Hopping - I've experience of a controlling relationship. A Narc? Who knows, I don't think I'm qualified to say whether they could be diagnosed as such.

Nothing of the behaviours described in the op made me think Narc. That's just the ops opinion. She has labelled her such. Her MiL probably thinks her DIL has certain undesirable personality traits too.

What worries me is that posters are so quick to join the 'NC' bandwagon, urging the op to close down all contact, without knowing the full story. The op has admitted herself that she feels 'guilty'. She also admits she caused the latest argument. I would imagine if MILs behaviour was truly narcissistic she wouldn't be feeling this way.

All I was saying was slow down and think if taking your children away from their Grandmother who they love dearly is really necessary. I suspect this is a personality clash. If she truly is a Narc then I apologise.

[Cricrichan]

Agree with hoppinggreen. Until you've experienced a narcissist, it's really hard to imagine how a human can behave like that, in particular towards those who they should love the most. It is absolutely sickening and the kids of narcs really really suffer for their whole lives.

[Hoppinggreen]

bakewell have you had a Narc in your life?
I'm really not meaning to be rude but if not then I don't think you can understand how damaging they are. It doesn't matter if the DC want to retain their relationship with their grandma, they are too young to make that decision and need to be protected from potential emotional abuse.
Apologies if you have experienced this but most people who have would advise NC

[bakewelltarty]

Such a big decision, I don't envy what your DH has to do.

How old are your DC? You said the eldest loved his grandmother very much. Are you ready for how this will affect them? What if they want to retain a relationship with her?

I must admit, from what you have said, I wouldn't go NC. She sounds over bearing and obviously has a complicated relationship with her son. You might not know the full story of why and how the relationship is as it is. I don't think what you describe warrants writing someone completely out of your children's lives.

I don't mean to be harsh but I think your guilt is telling you something. I think you know this isn't right. By all means go NC yourself if that is really what you want but I'd think very carefully about whether there is a way forward that doesn't completely cut her out of your DH and your children's lives. This may come back to bite you on the arse.

[mummyto2monkeys]

I phoned my in-laws and calmly told them that I had made the decision to have no contact with them, I explained why and also told them that there was to be no contact with our DC. I told them that if they called the house being verbally abusive, their number would be blocked. I also told them that if they showed up at the house and were abusive, I would call the police and have therm removed. I then told them that they could access dh in an emergency on either his mobile or his email address. At the time I made the decision for myself and our DC, so I made it clear that I was not going to come between them and their relationship with their son. As it was my dh made his own decision to go nc not long after. You may want to be the person who informs them of your family decision, or your dh may feel he needs to inform them himself. In my experience verbally informing them will be given more respect that writing. I have previously written to mil when she had been nasty, but these were never replied to or mentioned.

We were pretty sure that we had no worries regarding social media as mil and fil are not on Facebook/ any type of social media. It didn't occur to us that Mil's siblings and their children (dh's cousins) would turn nasty. So even if you think you are safe please do block anyone from posting on either of your timelines, without your approval first. The same goes for people tagging you ..

[JayoftheRed]

Thank you mummyto2monkeys that's helpful.

I have pretty secure social media, plus MIL doesn't know how to use her microwave, let alone a computer, so I'm not particularly worries on that front, but I will be vigilant and not afraid to us the block button!

I'm a little worried about flying monkeys, but apart from FIL and SIL, there isn't anyone really. Dh's uncle has already told me what he thinks of her so I can't see him taking their side and on her side there's an elderly aunt who lives at the other end of the country. We might get a phone call from her I suppose.

We're not going NC with FIL (although I'd like to as I feel, as the enabler, he is equally to blame) or SIL, but I suspect they will be too scared of her to make an effort.it took SIL nearly the whole of the 6 weeks silence last year before she got in touch off her own back.

My biggest fear is them turning up at the house, but I guess 999 is my friend there, if necessary.

Oh, it's horrible. How do you tell them you've gone NC too? Do you just ignore them ans hope they get the message or write to them...?

[mummyto2monkeys]

Op I have been where you are, although I took the decision for myself and our dc to go NC with my in-laws. They are very toxic people, poisonous and the psychological abuse they inflicted on my dh had spread to my four year old D's who was petrified of mil. I have social service involvement due to severe disability, I also have advocacy and other voluntary organisations involved. When I shared the distress of my D's with my then social worker, I was told that this was a child protection issue and that I needed to intervene and protect D's. My dh was told the same by his counsellor/ advocate who tried to help him mediate with his family. My in-laws couldn't help themselves, they were horrendously abusive and cruel to my dh, much of which abuse was directed at myself.

Please be very vigilant with your dh and make sure that both of your social media accounts are locked down to protect your dh and yourself. After I informed my in-laws of my decision to be no contact and the reasons why everything kicked off spectacularly. Flying monkeys came out the woodwork en force! The vitriol and abuse directed towards myself and my dh was psychologically draining and disturbing. My dh had his entire family disown him, (unless he left me and took custody of our children which funnily enough they had insisted upon at the meeting that triggered me to go NC) not just his family of origin, his grandmother, aunts, cousins, brother. My dh had poor privacy settings online at the time and he had his character annihilated in a very public and disdtressing way. In my experience narcissists will do everything they can to destroy the person who dares to stand up to them. My in-laws nearly succeeded, my dh had a breakdown and was having suicidal thoughts. I luckily realised and called my local g.p who spent an hour on the phone to him (amazingly our g.p had just gone through similar with his narcissist Mother)! He gave my dh some fantastic information on narcissism and arranged for my dh to see a counsellor the next day at our local g.p practice.

Please be prepared for the fallout! Protect your family as well as you can, blocking your in laws from calling your landline if they are abusive over the phone. If you can, filter any calls from his family, if they are abusive then block them too. Your dh is doing the right thing, if you don't stop her poison, it will spread and infect everything that is good in your lives.

[JayoftheRed]

Really shouldn't do this on my phone.

Relationships end but quite often the offender doesn't know what they've done. When MIL went NC for those 6 weeks last year, it was only when they got back in touch that we found out what he had supposedly done. We're not completely sure this time but are guessing at a few things it might be.

He's asked me to deal with them tonight when they drop my son off as he really doesn't want to speak to her knowing what she's said about him. I can't say I want to much, but I will.

I think is going to get a whole lot worse before it gets better.e

[JayoftheRed]

Thanks. I will talk to him tonight about going NC with the children. When I say I don't want my children to grow up thinking they can just blank someone, I don't mean that they have to put up with being spoken to badly or anything, but if someone upsets them, they should be able to tell that person amd hopefully work it through. Obviously that can't always be done and relationships ens

[paddlenorapaddle]

I wonder if it wouldn't be better for you to say you're not happy about how mil speaks about him in front of you and therefore your children and so as a precaution you are going to decide NC for the children's sake. That way you release your DH from making the decision based on your DC loving her. What I would say is that this type of narc love children because they are so easily manipulated not to put to fine a point on it if this is how she is with her own son what makes you think she won't do the same to yours.

Please google out of the fog.net and the smart girls guide to self care

[ohfourfoxache]

This is not your fault. At all. In no way, shape or form are you responsible for this.

This is MIL's doing, it is not a good idea to allow your dc contact with such a toxic person and in the long run this outcome really is the best one possible.

Oh, and did I mention that this isn't your fault? At all?

[FancyPantsDelacroixTheFirst]

"I don't want my children growing up to think it's OK to just blank people if they hurt you."

Well, it depends on the level of hurt we are talking about. I think it's a good thing to teach children that they don't have to put up with someone's bad behaviour just because they are related to them.

[Cricrichan]

I think it's good that he's going NC. I wish mine would but it's a lot better since I and mil have been NC for 4 years (her choice originally but when she saw that it was fine by me, she's tried to restart again but no way would I ever soeak to her again - she's poisonous). One of her other children has finally gone almost NC and it took a new relationship for her to see that her mother is a narcissist.

[JayoftheRed]

Thank you. I know it's her fault, I think I just needed to hear it. My husband himself said that if it wasn't for me he would He never have even considered going NC. He meant it in a good way (I think!) but it really stuck with me and I'm struggling to shake it off.

[GloriaGaynor]

The whole idea that this is your fault is irrational frankly.

It's MIL's fault for using your mistake to slag off your husband, because she's a nasty piece of work.

I'm not surprised DH has had enough, I would have done a long time ago.
It's really nothing to do with you it's between him and her.

I wouldn't worret over your part in it, it's irrelevant.

[EatsShitAndLeaves]

You are not wrong and I didn't think you were stealth boasting.

I got the impression you realise it's a big thing for your DH and wanted some reassurance that you had behaved appropriately - especially in light of his FOG for which he has presumably been receiving counselling.