Does anyone/has anyone followed The Rules?

[tartanmattress]

I read the dating book The Rules and am intrigued to hear people's opinions, experiences, advice, etc.

[OlennasWimple]

I don't see how it's slut shaming, Psychadelic As I said, you have to bear in mind that the Rules are very specifically about identifying men who want the same as you (ie LTR / marriage). I agree that a good filter of whether someone is after something casual or something more is not sleeping with them immediately. Nothing to do with being ashamed of female sexuality or thinking anyone who puts out on the first date is easy (to use the parlance of my day!), but if the bloke is looking for a quick shag but doesn't get it, you know where you stand when he doesn't come back.

cory - I agree good communication is the best approach! Unfortunately some people are bad at saying what they think / are afraid to ask in case it rocks the boat / don't tell the truth... especially early on in a relationship. I know someone who about three weeks into a relationship spent the whole weekend with a bloke, they rarely got out of bed and didn't leave the apartment. She left feeling dizzy and besotted, to the extent that she went and got his initials tattooed on her leg (she had been thinking about getting one anyway, just amended the design). He had been saying things to her like "I never want this weekend to end, this is heaven, having you here is perfection". She read this as meaning he thought she was The One. He was horrified by what she did and dumped her immediately: he had had a great weekend, but was not at all on the lookout for a LTR. A case of miscommunication, sure, but she had basically taken him at his word, which had inadvertently given her the wrong idea. Neither party was to blame, they were jsut in different places and thought that the weekend meant completely different things. If she had been clear in her head that she wouldn't go to bed with him until she knew that he was on the same page regarding a relationship, at the very least she would have been spared the pain, expense and ignominy of getting a laser tattoo removal (never mind the emotional aspect).

Maybe that should be a 21st century updated Rule: don't get a tattoo of your partner unless he is also getting one of you (or similar)

[PsychedelicSheep]

Cory- absolutely. I've never understood this thing about waiting for a commitment before you have sex with someone. What if they're awful in bed, selfish and/or inept or have a micropenis or can only get off by choking you or something?! I need to know very early on if I'm sexually compatible with someone or I'm not going to waste my time dating them!

It's old fashioned, sexist and slut shaming.

[WamBamThankYouMaam]

The whole thing sounds exhausting. I'd rather stick to what I actually want and who I actually am than all that nonsense.

I wouldn't respect a guy who was game playing, and I extend that same thought to women. I find it all a bit manipulative really.

[Bogeyface]

Don't Expect a Man to Change or Try to Change Him

The problem with this is that when you first get together with someone, it can be perfect. No one needs to change so no problem. Then life means that change is inevitable, a baby comes along for example and she changes but he doesnt want to or see the need to.

The Rules are all very well for "catching" your man, but they are not terribly helpful when it comes to growing up and older together. What do The Rules say about a man who is so jealous of his own child that he needs to get laid outside of the marriage?!

[corythatwas]

"No More than Casual Kissing on the First Date
Don't Rush into Sex and Other Rules for Intimacy

Ie don't do something you might regret or feel pressured to do something to try to keep him interested. If he dumps you becuase you won't sleep with him, he's a knob anyway. If he wants to be with you rather than just get in your pants, he will wait."

This assumes that it is always the man who wants sex and the woman who feels pressurised. Because women never want sex for their own personal pleasure...

"Let Him Take the Lead

This way you know what his intentions really are, without any danger of him jsut going along with what you say and do without believing it"

It doesn't give him a chance to know what your intentions are, does it? The whole thinking is based on a model where it is the man's intentions that matter and his understanding of what the woman wants isn't all that important because he's not going to be thinking of her as having equal input anyway.


"Don’t Live with a Man (or Leave Your Things in His Apartment)

Be clear about what the relationship is. So many MNers on the relationship board who have slipped into living with their DP, who is now being very evasive about marriage or children."

How about communicating? Doesn't that make more sense?

[OlennasWimple]

Yy, blue. It should be pointed out that the Rules are for dating in the hope of a long term relationship (probably marriage), not just finding someone to hang out with and have fun right now. So if Mr Wonderful isn't on the same page, the Rules help highlight that sooner rather than later

c3pu - they only really "work" with a particular type of man (ie one who likes the chase, isn't afraid to make the first move - or all the moves). Which does immediately take an awful lot of lovely men out of the equation.

[c3pu]

Crikey, if I was dating a woman who played by "the rules" I'd assume they were barely interested and probably quite grabby. Wouldn't be worth wasting my time if they didn't bother texting back half the time and were keen to end the date first or get off the phone.

[blueshoes]

The best thing about the Rules is that it eliminates time wasters and men who are not that into you.

It does not mean that the person who is left is a gem. It is necessary to apply the usual red flag-o-meter. Such as to eliminate those who just like the thrill of the chase.

[OlennasWimple]

I think you need to bear in mind the context that the Rules were written in (the American dating game is very different to here)

Taking them in turn....

Be a “Creature Unlike Any Other"

Being individual isn't a bad thing, is it?

Don't Talk to a Man First (and Don't Ask Him to Dance)

Clearly crap, especially as you are immediately discriinating against shy men

Don't Stare at Men or Talk Too Much

Staring is generally rude, but can be an important part of flirting, no? Talking too much is also rude, but I guess some people read this as women having to be meek, silent and passive?

Don't Meet Him Halfway or Go Dutch on a Date

Remember the context... But also pretty dated

Don't Call Him and Rarely Return His Calls

Hate game playing

Always End Phone Calls First

Ditto

Don't Accept a Saturday Night Date after Wednesday
Fill Up Your Time before the Date

This basically means don't immediately make him the centre of your world, doesn't it? Keep your other friends and interests, rather than give over all your time to him?

How to Act on Dates 1, 2, and 3
How to Act on Dates 4 through Commitment Time

Can't remember what this is about...

Always End the Date First

Don't like game playing

Stop Dating Him if He Doesn't Buy You a Romantic Gift for Your Birthday or Valentine's Day

Unless your birthday or Valentines comes very soon after you start dating, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a thoughtful gift that is different to what he would get his sister or a female friend?

Don’t See Him More than Once or Twice a Week

As above - don't give up your own interests

No More than Casual Kissing on the First Date
Don't Rush into Sex and Other Rules for Intimacy

Ie don't do something you might regret or feel pressured to do something to try to keep him interested. If he dumps you becuase you won't sleep with him, he's a knob anyway. If he wants to be with you rather than just get in your pants, he will wait.

Don't Tell Him What to Do

Of course. And don't let him tell you what to do either

Let Him Take the Lead

This way you know what his intentions really are, without any danger of him jsut going along with what you say and do without believing it

Don't Expect a Man to Change or Try to Change Him

So many women think that they can change a man: they can't, and they shouldn't try. I wish more people realised this! Similarly, he shouldn't expect you to change or try to make you different.

Don’t Open Up Too Fast
Be Honest but Mysterious

Protect yourself. Don't be too vulnerable.

Accentuate the Positive and Other Rules for Personal Ads

First rule of any advertising is to make the most of the good stuff...

Don’t Live with a Man (or Leave Your Things in His Apartment)

Be clear about what the relationship is. So many MNers on the relationship board who have slipped into living with their DP, who is now being very evasive about marriage or children.

Don't Date a Married Man

Shouldn't need saying, but it does...

Slowly Involve Him in Your Family and Other Rules for Women with Children

Practically a MN commandment!

Practice, Practice, Practice! (or, Getting Good at The Rules)

Changing learnt behaviours takes time

Even if You're Engaged or Married, You Still Need The Rules

Remain your own person, don't give up everything for him

Do The Rules, Even when Your Friends and Parents Think It's Nuts

Of course!

Be Smart and Other Rules for Dating in High School
Take Care of Yourself and Other Rules for Dating in College

It's difficult to navigate the early years while you are still finding yourself.

Next! and Other Rules for Dealing with Rejection

Virtually everyone is dumped at least once - but very few dating books deal with it

Don't Discuss The Rules with Your Therapist

Americanism alert!

Don't Break The Rules

They wouldnt' be Rules otherwise..

Do The Rules and You’ll Live Happily Ever After!

If only it were that easy!

Love Only Those Who Love You

Absolutely critical for self-protection

Be Easy to Live With

...And only live with someone who is also easy to live with. No-one likes high maintenance

[PassMeTheFrazzlesPlease]

*women

What he did want, was a 1950's style housewife. You are totally right, based on my experience, about the type of man it attracts.

[OlennasWimple]

Hang on, can we rewind to the PM from the author please?!

[PassMeTheFrazzlesPlease]

cory - I just read your post and you describe exactly the kind of man my ex is! That is uncanny, I was saying to my mum, only yesterday: "He never saw me as an equal. I don't think he actually has any respect for woman as people".

[PassMeTheFrazzlesPlease]

I used the rules to "get" my DH, over a decade ago.

We are now getting divorced. The divorce was instigated by me, after a long time in an unhappy marriage to a man who made little effort with me.

Looking back, he wasn't all that bothered about me in the beginning - only becoming interested when u started to "rules" him. He enjoyed the chase. I really wish I hadn't bothered! (But do have the excuse that I was in my early 20's and just didn't know any better )

[corythatwas]

RestlessTraveller Sat 22-Oct-16 10:19:53
"If the core value of this crap was really about valuing yourself it would be better. But it's not. It's about setting yourself up to be some sort of prize, it's about lying about who you really are and it's about relinquishing any worth that you really have by saying you have to act another way to trap a man"

This.

The kind of bloke you will attract will be the kind who does not expect to see a woman as an equal earner (or indeed equal in any other way), who does not feel the woman's sexual fulfilment is as important as his own, and does not think that a woman's input and opinions are likely to be as valuable as his own. Why does anyone want a man like that? Would it not be better not to attract them?

[twattymctwatterson]

It's insulting sexist drivel. I'm pretty sure they recommend that you don't be too funny because men don't like funny women. Fuck that. If you have to play a game to get someone and continue to do so throughout your relationship to keep them interested then your relationship is just a lie.

[Littleallovertheshop]

The new version is slightly better- no "get a nose job" advice. The online rules are generally good though.

[Rainbowqueeen]

Was not as
Sorry

[RestlessTraveller]

If the core value of this crap was really about valuing yourself it would be better. But it's not. It's about setting yourself up to be some sort of prize, it's about lying about who you really are and it's about relinquishing any worth that you really have by saying you have to act another way to trap a man. It's billshit.

[Rainbowqueeen]

I thought that the author as now divorced?!

[RestlessTraveller]

Where on earth do you come from Serafina3 The 1950's?

[Lilacpink40]

I've read better relationship books, which focus on the single person rather than the potential relationship. For example, finding your own sense of peace and happiness before being open to dating. Then you're not asking a man to jump through hoops, you're an attractive proposition and, if he isn't, you end it. No game playing and no guilt / doubts.

I'm single and dating. I'd rather be straight from the start.

[Terrifiedandregretful]

Some of the Rules are quite sensible, like not accepting last minute dates and generally letting it be known that you value yourself and your time. A lot of it is complete nonsense though. The not paying on a date thing winds me up. I wouldn't want to be with a man who objected to a woman paying her own way.

[Serafina3]

I haven't read this book, but where I come from the "dating culture" is more that men should make most of the effort, particularly in the early stages. So no, you don't call them, nor do you turn up to meet them somewhere if they haven't picked you up. They pay for everything. And definitely don't jump in bed with them until you're sure they're committed to you.
There's pros and cons to all this obviously, but at least people know where they stand. If a man is not interested, he won't call simple as that. There's no wrangling over whether to call him. No feeling "used" after one night stands either. If you don't let them treat you badly then they can't.

[abbsismyhero]

I agree with the don't date married men the rest just didn't stick in my brain

Can you tell I'm single

[AuntieStella]

Some of it is annoying jargon.

But the core message is to value yourself, have good boundaries and do not put up with a man treating you badly.

It's a better message than is sometimes realised.