I know I've got a DH problem but how do I change that?

[Beebuzy]

I've had to nc as no doubt this will out me.

I know that my real issue is DH and not FIL but I don't know how to change it. DH is just so conditioned to his DF and his attitude and the fact that whatever he says goes and can't be challenged. They all tipped around him.

To be honest I've also done it for over 10 years although I've always complained to DH that how his DF treats him and his siblings and others isn't right. I've kept it in whenever he's made litter remarks or comments to me for the sake of DH. Fil will not tolerate being challenged and he goes radio active if he is.

It's no secret that he doesn't like any of the partners his children have chosen including me but his attitude to me has gotten worse since I had my DC 2 years ago. He lives over 100 miles away so we don't see him often but when we do I get little digs made or the last 3 times I've been shouted at. This time I couldn't take anymore after almost a week of digs I answered him back and all he'll broke lose.

He was imposing in my face, a trade of verbal abuse followed and I told him that I was taking DC and leaving. He tried to take DC from me and continued the abuse all the while DH just sat there saying nothing. So yes I know DH is the real problem.

He's made excuse after excuse for his DF behaviour, he's tried to justify it and put his head in the sand.

For me it's really shook what I believed of our relationship, I'd always felt if push came to shove he would stand with me and he didn't he let me get a verbal bashing.

The flying monkeys have been in contact asking DH to tow the line and right now I'm trying to figure out how to save my marriage as I can't see a way forward from this when DH knows Fil was wrong and admits it but can't/won't stand with me.

How do I snap him out of the FOG as current I'm being portrayed as the evil person wanting to go nc and wrecking their relationship as I know what fil is like and should put up with it

[OliviaBenson]

Sorry but FIL is not great with your children if he is treating their mother as he does. Do you really want his influence on your children as they grow up?

I think you need to go no contact. So what if your DH is devastated? He hasn't done anything to stick up for you so far has he? This might be the jolt he needs.

[ThisIsPlanetEarth]

"But DH needs to sort this out "

[Floralnomad]

I wouldn't let your child visit , if FIL wants to see him then he can visit you ,stay in a hotel and your DH can meet him with the DC for an hour or so . We lived close to my Inlaws but they only ever saw the DC for about an hour every 3/4 months as DH just visited on his own , DS stopped seeing them when he was 15 ,although he did go to FIL funeral and dd has stopped seeing MIL this year at 17 . Really the choice is for your DH to make ,you must make the decision that is right for you .

[Beebuzy]

MIL passed away a few years ago and sadly he's gotten so much worse since then, she almost kept him in line somewhat and I think the fact that FIL is alone also plays on the heart sting of DH.

Fog is fear, obligation and guilt

[Confusednotcom]

And don't stress about not being the perfect wife, sounds like you are working really hard and as you say DH is drawing attention to your perceived shortcomings to deflect attention from the FIL elephant - keep reminding yourself - and him - of that!

[Lalunya85]

We had a similar situation but in the reverse. My mother was the controlling/rude/insulting one and I struggled to stand up to her. It can be so tough and confusing, and I have a lot of empathy for your Dh (even though I would completely understand if you decided that you had to draw a line under it for your and DC's sake).

When your Dh was growing up his father probably managed to spin everything so he was always in the right. And your husband learned to behave in such a way as to avoid any points of conflict. As an adult, it can be really hard to even recognise these ingrained behaviours patterns, let alone change them. They provided your husband with a safe place for all those years by protecting him from his father, and changing these behaviours now would be really scary. So your husband is reduced to the scared little boy he was every time you are around Fil. Subconscious fears are the worst kind!

Therapy was my and my relationship's saviour. In the long run it also improved my relationship with my mother by making it more equal and more honest. I saw a therapist for over four years. These things don't change over night, but as a first step your husband needs to see that his relationship with his dad is unhealthy and he needs to want to work on changing it. Does he have any siblings who could understand and maybe work on this together with him?

[Confusednotcom]

DH has an obligation to you and DC too

[Landoni112]

It's would be a massive worry to me that if my dp couldn't stand up for me and my children in that situation...when could I ever rely on them to have my back?

[Beebuzy]

He has siblings but they are in the same position in that they won't stand up to FIL and their partners have been subject to FIL abuse. They all make excuses for his behaviour.

How would I go about finding a therapist who specialises in this sort of thing?

[Beebuzy]

Landoni that's exactly my fear and dilemma going through my head right now I don't want to give up my marriage but I won't lie I am devastated

[VioletBam]

He's not "great with your DC" AT ALL! He's rude to their Mother and he is trying to dominate her through them.

That is not great.

In your shoes I would simply refuse to ever visit again. And that includes the DC.

Why should they be exposed to this wanker?

[Lalunya85]

I only have experience with a therapist that used the psychodynamic approach. It's the one where you are encouraged to look at your past to figure our why some things aren't working in the present. Really opened my eyes.

I'd google for services or just individual therapists in your area. The way it worked for me, I had an initial assessment and then was referred to a therapist they felt would suit me best. In my case it was an association of private psychotherapists in my area.

By the way, I don't think it matters that you husband wants to go to therapy "only" for the other issues in your relationship. The elephant in the room is bound to come up and will probably end up dominating your sessions anyway. I do think that individual therapy for him would be ideal, and possibly more important that couples counselling at this stage. If he agrees

[2kids2dogsnosense]

What an horrendous bully your FIL must have been towards his family if all of his children are afraid of upsetting him.

In their minds he is still the huge, strong, powerful dad he was when they were toddlers. They can't make the mental jump that tells them that they are adults and don't have to put up with his brutality any more. Psychologically his behaviour has kept them all children when they are in his presence.

Your husband needs support, too, believe it or not, if he is to realise that his dad is no longer the "boss'.

I think another poster's suggestion of you not meeting your FIL (at his home or your own) , but not stopping your DH might be a good one, and only allowing your DC to see him in public places , with your husband , for an hour or so.

God didn't put anyone on this earth to be a doormat. You don't need to accept his vile behaviour, as you have shown him. Like any bully he will not want his authority challenged and will do everything he can to regain control. `this may mean he tries to split up you and your DH. Don't let him, stay firm and in control.

[MsJudgemental]

We ceased all contact with my mother a over a year ago as she is controlling and manipulative. Your husband's duty is to you and your children. If he cannot man up and support you, then you need to give him an ultimatum. If he wishes to continue seeing his father then he does so alone. This is not your problem, nor is it your child's.

[hermione2016]

Wow, this is so like the situation I faced with stbxh with his mum who is a violent bully.She was berating h once and I stood up for him which caused her to leap off the sofa to try and hit me.
H stood in the way to protect me but later wanted to brush it under the carpet and when it was BIL's wedding shortly afterwards he wouldn't talk to me about arrangements so I could feel safe.I felt so let down and didnt attend this wedding which caused a further divide.

I would say on reflection I wish I got support from elsewhere, maybe professional counselling as I suspect I felt traumatised.
Focus on getting you feeling calm and talking about it to others.Your H might start to minimise it so you will feel even more angry, so just for now accept you can't talk to him about it.This is tough to do however!

Secondly recognise you don't need to do anything now, or make decisions. you are safe (even if you don't feel it).Take time to get over this, if a stranger did this to you in the street you would get empathy but with 'family' it's normalised.I struggle with this as I'm an action person and needed a plan.

Unless people truly know a toxic family member you cant relate to what happened.My family never understood how signifant it was (if we get cross with each other it never feels unsafe as there is love which doesn't exist in h's family).There are all about middle class appearances.

Lastly know that your H probably cant do anything rather than won't.His conditioning to suppress anger at his dad is too deep and it's natural to him.The instinct most mothers have for a child is reversed here, his instinct is to make it go away and a defense mechanism is to blame you or bring up other issues.You won't make it better by challenging his thinking, it will make him dig in further and escalate it.(not right but likely to happen)
Blaming you is so you are diverted away from the incident with FIL. Its highly damaging to your relationship but know it's most likely coming from a deeply held instinct that won't change quickly.
If your H gets counselling please be warned that you need to ensure its the right type.He needs a counsellor who will challenge his thoughts not assume what H says is correct. If not you could be blamed for the issue. This is critical as h's counsellor did person centred (I think it was called) which relies on him coming up with solutions.His conditioning was not challenged and the outcome was that if I could just toe the line there won't be many issues.

I know how awful this feels, your trust in h has been rocked and also maybe you lose some respect.Your H will fear this response from you and may feel some shame but he'll be powerless to do anything else.
It's a shitty situation and one that made me so grateful for my upbringing which whilst not perfect was not as screwed up as H's.

[ThisIsPlanetEarth]

My FIL is on his own now too and has poor health, he is all sweetness and light now when he sees DH (and me on the rare occasions ). Maybe if all the siblings got together and said to him his behaviour is unacceptable he might back down a bit. Are they worried they might get written out of his will??!!

[chattygranny]

I had exactly the same issue as you and you have my sympathies. Sadly, although my fil died many years ago it can still cause friction between my OH and me. The whole family tiptoed around him too. My OH would always protect me against anyone else and I was very young when I came into the family (my DG was kind) so I didn't nip it in the bud. Unfortunately I think there are a lot of families like that. One of my dc has married into a family where everyone tiptoes round the mother. Her OH is torn in two and her FIL is broken but long established habits are hard to break. I feel for you all and wish we had had counselling years ago so maybe that will help as long as you find someone good.

[RandomMess]

The advice I was given in finding a good therapist was to get a list of the BCAP website then ring them up and chat to them about the issues. Get a feel for the "chemistry" between you and therapist - do they get the issue, do they feel they can help, did you feel you could be open and honest with them?

Are they happy to challenge you, give you homework (certain things to think about or behaviours to practice. Be clear you want therapy rather than counselling.

Go for your initial meeting and see how it goes, do you "click" with them at some level. If you don't try some others.

[Andro]

ThisIsPlanetEarth

FOG = Fear, , Obligation and Guilt.

[BitterAndOnlySlightlyTwisted]

Your poor husband! In his father's presence he goes back to being that frightened, bullied little boy.

OP, please try not to feel betrayed by his lack of support when FIL abused you. The poor man is most likely being torn utterly in two.

It would be perfectly reasonable to insist that you won't be in this arsehole's presence ever again and neither will your children be exposed to his abuse. Husband can see his father whenever he likes but it will be alone from now on.

Please don't force him to choose between you and FIL unless you are fully prepared for the decision you least want.

[balence49]

I have been through this. Enough is enough. If he won't stand up for you, which he clearly won't. Then that would be it for me. No contact at all and leave his relationship with his dad up to him.
I did this and not surprisingly years down the line the relationship has fizzled out as coz I stopped arranging visits they didn't happen. Now he can see exactly what was the problem and is glad to be away from him.

[Beebuzy]

I couldn't and wouldn't make him choose between me and FIL, their relationship isn't my problem but I have told DH today that I can't have contact with FIL anymore and I don't want the DC to have contact either until I'm confident that DH could sufficiently stand up to his dad and challenge his behaviour.

He's agreed for me to contact some therapist's about counselling as a couple, he won't go on his own which is fine small steps are enough for me at the moment.

I thought he hadn't spoken to FIL since we left however I've discovered today that he's been phoning him in secret from his mobile. We were out yesterday and he disappeared for a short time and it turns out he was on the phone and I've noticed it again today. I'm not really interested in what FIL has to say but it worries me he's speaking to him out of earshot, I know FIL and he won't let drop what's gone on and will go on and on about me so part of me is worried that he's speaking to him away from me so that if FIL does mention me he doesn't have to defend me and can ignore it.

Maybe I've now become paranoid

[user1471470055]

To me, this is a 'journey into manhood' scenario. Most men struggle to stand up to their fathers, and for many it comes only when they have their own family, which gives them the strength to find their way to a new relationship. But it's not yet happened for your DH.
Perhaps he needs to hear it from other men, that this is a door he has to step through. In my experience it's a lot easier when you finally stand up - nothing like the confrontation you might imagine. That's something he would benefit from knowing.

[DontMindMe1]

this isn't my normal loving caring husband, I don't recognise this man today

He is the same man he has always been - you just didn't want to see it. Instead, you chose to go along with the 'happy families' charade. If you had stood up to fil and layed out your boundaries from the beginning you would have seen this side to him early on.

Fil is no doubt dripping poison in your dh ear - and he lets him. This is a man who will not stand up for you and he won't stand up and protect his children when fil turns his ire on them.

I would never allow my dc to visit with a racist homophobe - especially when the 'responsible' parent cannot stand up to the abuser.

[OliviaBenson]

Why is he ringing FIL in secret and so often? I hope you find a good councillor op, but I think it's going to be a long and hard path for you.