"It's just the way I talk"

[Ellarose85]

My DH is brilliant in most ways, we've had our ups and downs but we are on track and have a lovely family but what is really gripping my shit is the way he talks to me.

He talks me like crap sometimes, it's the way he says things which he could do in a much nicer way. His dad does exactly the same to his mum so I'm guessing that he's grown up with it and thinks nothing of speaking to me like it too. The difference being that I won't put up with it. When I mention it to him he just says "it's the way I talk" to which my response is "it wasn't when we first got together because if it was, I doubt I would've stuck around". He just says I'm hormonal

It's causing real tension at times in our relationship, I'm very defensive when he does speak to me badly and now just take myself off to bed.

He genuinely doesn't think he is doing anything wrong and I believe him when he says he doesn't mean to upset me but I bloody hate it and I don't want my DS thinking it's okay to speak to women that way or my DD thinking it's okay to be spoken to this way.

I don't want to hear LTB please but would like some advice.

I'm thinking of suggesting couples counselling so that he can hear from someone else that it's not acceptable to speak to people (it's not just me that he does it to) the way he does as he thinks it only bothers me around my time of the month so therefore it's my issue.

[RunRabbitRunRabbit]

I think you are doing absolutely the right thing here by escalating.You'll save yourself years of pain this way.

Hopefull he will stop being a dick and take you seriously because failing to change his behaviour is the most painful option for him (by your increasingly unignorable reaction).

I've gone nuclear on DH a few times in our 20yr marriage over stuff like this. I was hardcore zero tolerance on certain things he tended towards learned from his DF like patronising and micromanaging (terrible mansplainer if not kicked metaphorically in the nuts). He learned. He didn't realise he was being shit and even when I told him, he didn't believe it because it was what he grew up with and viewed as normal. Zero tolerance from me made him quickly decide to adapt in favour of "happy wife happy life".

Funnily enough he now finds his DB and DF's mansplaining appalling and mocks them far worse than I ever would.

Hopefully your DH is similar.

If it turns out that he is a garden variety bully instead though, I'm sure you'll work it out soon enough as a result of this exercise and LTB.

KOKO.

[Hillfarmer]

Sorry - I was pressing you for details that are probably irrelevant. The precise content and manner of delivery of his comments aren't necessary.
The main point is the effect they have on you. He can upset you at the drop of a few sharp words and take you from a good mood to devastated in seconds. This is what matters OP.

He is flexing his muscles. He is punishing you. When he speaks to you like that he is punishing you for stepping out of line. He is making sure that you change your behaviour because you are afraid of this 'punishment'. He finds it very easy to ruin your mood and your day. It's a weapon and he's not showing any sign that he wants to put it down, even after you have strenuously pointed out to him that he is out of order and hurting your feelings.

Sure, it is very tempting to say 'he just needs to change the way he talks to me at times'. It's the 'just' in that sentence that sends shivers down my spine. There's no 'just' about it! That is the really tough thing to get your head around...the way he talks to you 'sometimes' is indicative of his whole attitude towards you. He may be fine most of the time, when everything is going his way. However the test of a person is their approach when things are not going their way - is he still considerate, kind and understanding towards you even when you inadvertently do something he doesn't like i.e.chuck a tomato that he had his heart set on?

You know this is a wider problem than just the odd isolated incident. You know these incidents are an ominous sign. You would not have started a thread unless your gut was uneasy.

I don't want to depress you, but I think you really need to make hard decisions about what you need to do. Are you prepared to make an ultimatum? Are you prepared to hold him to this? How do you respond if he continues to smear you with the 'hormonal' accusation? How will you respond if he refuses to engage with the idea that your marriage is in trouble if he cannot address the problem you have outlined very clearly to him? You need to lob the ball firmly in his court, as PPs have suggested, you have to make it clear that it is absolutely his choice to endanger your marriage by continuing to treat you with contempt. Because if he fails to address your concerns, then he is treating you and his marriage with contempt.

I hope he does change his behaviour OP. But I think the likelihood is that he won't go anywhere near it, and will fail even to engage with your concerns. It that's the case, it would be useful to you to have a think about your action plan for that eventuality.

As others have said, you shouldn't have to persuade your partner to be kind to you.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

You may support him but he does not support you. You are not a team; its all about him.

I also doubt very much whether he will agree to any form of counselling and infact you should go on your own rather than go with him. No decent counsellor would ever see the two of you anyway given his verbal abuse of you.

[fivetosix]

Didn't want to read and run but putting up with the same for the past 12 years has taken its toll. I don't know the person I used to be but I know I deserve better. I feel constantly put down and never good enough.

I won't say LTB because only you know your home life, but he needs help or you need to act before you get into the position I am.

[Ellarose85]

hillfarmer to be honest, I can't remember what was said exactly, something inside me snapped and I had to go upstairs because I was so upset. I was in a really good mood beforehand too.

Like PP have said, it's hurtful that he knows that it upsets me but chooses to do nothing about his behaviour.

We have been together for 4 years but known each other for much longer. Married for one year. We also have two children under two which we cope with very well and don't find as stressful as everyone thinks it is - which is one reason why I want to work through this, we are a good team, support each other etc he just needs to change the way he talks to me at times.

[Blue2014]

Might be worth asking him to go to therapy, I used to do this to my DH honestly not intending to be rude, it just genuinely is how we talk in my family, but it was really upsetting him. Took me Ages to acknowledge it as a problem and it's not been easy changing (I have to be mindful of how to word things when I want to pass feedback) but changing it has really helped us so it's well worth him doing (and therapy helped me see why I do it)

[Hillfarmer]

So when he wanted that rotten tomato in the fridge, what words did he use? I don't doubt he is disrespectful OP, I just can't hear the exchange.

Do you know when this started? He must know he wasn't like this when you first got together. How long have you been together. I think you are doing the right thing by absolutely not putting up with it.

The worrying thing is he should be concerned that he is upsetting you and trying to do something about it. He is not. Like others have said, he doesn't seem concerned, is determined that he is not doing anything wrong, has adopted a 'put up and shut up' attitude towards you (nice) and then accuses you of being hormonal. In other words he is behaving like a complete shit. Yes, you need to tell him you will not carry on like this but it must be extremely hurtful to be making it absolutely clear that he is upsetting you and for him not to care. I don't like it one bit.

You must think ahead to what the next step is for you. What's the deadline for this kind of behaviour from him to cease? What will you do if he continues like this. He needs to realise that you are utterly serious about being disrespected. If there is no respect, then the love can't be there either.

[TheSparrowhawk]

Having to beg and plead and explain and give examples to someone you love in order for them to treat you with kindness is utterly soul destroying. He should just be kind, he shouldn't have to be convinced to do it.

[TheSparrowhawk]

Unless he acknowledges that there's a problem then there is no way to fix it. He blames you by saying you're hormonal. So how can that be fixed?

[Ellarose85]

meeep no name calling - he's very anti name calling. It's just the manner in which he says things, he is rude, blunt and disrespectful.

[Ellarose85]

pocket yes, I have been doing this for the past week or so, he doesn't like it one bit. I'm hoping the message is sinking in now.

He text me earlier asking what was going on and why I am acting funny. I told him straight and also asked him how he would feel in years to come if DD was upset by the way her partner was talking to her... I'm hoping that's made him think a bit more.

[Meeep]

What do you mean though, how does he talk to you like crap? Does he call you names? Swear? What?

[pocketsaviour]

I know this won't come naturally to you, but would you consider talking to him with the same lack of respect he uses to you, and telling him "That's just the way I talk now, get used to it, you useless fucker."

Ultimately though if he is unwilling to acknowledge that his aggressive behaviour is a problem and seek to change it, then you may have to leave him in order to teach your children that it's not acceptable to be sworn at or insulted.

[ThatStewie]

Tell him straight to his face the next time: 'if you speak to me like that, this marriage will not survive. You need to stop speaking to me like this or you will need to move out. There is no excuse for speaking to me this way and it needs to stop."

Put the ball in his court. His response to the potential of ending your marriage will tell you exactly what you need to know- if he dismisses you, he will not stop speaking to you like you're dirt. And you will need to decide whether or not to spend the rest of your life with a man who doesn't respect or value you.

[Optimist3]

Or put the wind up him and pack a bag for him to go stay at his parents.

[Optimist3]

Every time ask him 'what would be a nicer way of saying that?' or flatly state 'do not speak to me rudely' or 'be quiet if you can't be polite' or 'you are copying your fathers rude behaviour to his wife, why would you do that' or 'why are you talking so rudely?'

Yes to couples counselling. At the moment he's being very rude, then belittling how youR feelings about it.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

"saltfish I totally agree, he doesn't see it as a problem so in order for us to move forward, he needs to acknowledge that it isn't right".

He will never do that. He sees no problem with how he talks to you, you to him are a person of lesser status.

Staying for the children is rarely if ever a good idea as well, the children cannot and should not be used as glue to bind you and he together.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Re your comment:-

attila I don't want to LTB as this aside, we are good together and I think this can be worked through. I'm not a doormat or a weak person and won't tolerate this long term, it NEEDS fixing for our relationship to have a future, I will be making this very clear and won't have any blame shifted on to me.

No you are neither good together (this overrides any good points re him) nor can this be worked through. He is already blaming you as well.

You are already tolerating this, your children are already seeing all too clearly what is happening at home. You may well not be a doormat outside the home but you are likely playing out the same roles as his mother did and does. She probably tried to get him to a counsellor as well. BTW are they still together?. Also men like this do like supposedly strong women like you, they see these women as a challenge to bring down to their base level.

If he thinks he is not doing anything wrong here then listening to a counsellor will not change that. He needs probably years of therapy to unlearn all the crap he himself learnt about relationships from his dad in particular.

You cannot afford for either child to learn these lessons otherwise your DD as an adult will be doing the same as you whilst your son is mainly copying his dad's ways of behaving.

[Ellarose85]

saltfish I totally agree, he doesn't see it as a problem so in order for us to move forward, he needs to acknowledge that it isn't right.

Regarding my DS, he is the main reason why I am trying to sort this out. Long term, if this issue isn't resolved, I can't see a future for DH and I, as sad as this is. Things need to change.

[Saltfish]

Ah sorry I see you have a ds. So your husband grew up seeing his father do this to his mother but somehow your son will be different because you put up boundaries that seem to be largely ignored?

[Saltfish]

He doesn't seem to think there's a problem so how will this be fixed? He's not even sorry.

Do you have children?

[Ellarose85]

book last night for example, the shopping was delivered and I threw away any food from the fridge that was out of date or veg that wasn't fresh. DH is a terrible food hoarder so if I don't throw stuff out, he would keep it forever more. I threw out a bloody tomato that he wanted to make a sandwich with so he spoke to me like crap over it. Petty I know but it's little instances like that that really wind me up.

[Ellarose85]

attila I don't want to LTB as this aside, we are good together and I think this can be worked through. I'm not a doormat or a weak person and won't tolerate this long term, it NEEDS fixing for our relationship to have a future, I will be making this very clear and won't have any blame shifted on to me.

[booklooker]

Can you give some examples?

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Why do you not want to LTB?. Genuine question by the way.

My advice re counselling is to go on your own so you can talk without his interference. Joint counselling is really a non starter here because of how he talks to you. Also he thinks he is doing nothing wrong so will not take any notice of some counsellor.

I would think he does not talk to anyone else like this in the outside world either. He is a bully to you within your own home.

This is deeply ingrained within his own psyche (his own dad did the same to his mum) and a few sessions with a counsellor is not going to cut it. That is what he learnt about relationships from his parents amongst many other lessons. I would not believe him when he says he does not mean to upset you; if he really meant that he would certainly go all out to properly change his mindset.

Your children are already seeing that it is ok for him to speak to you like that because you are putting up with it.