Consent in my relationship - crossed wires??

[Lostandinsane]

Feeling ridiculously sick and nervous posting this. Asking for kindness and support.

Background: Before meeting my current partner I was in an abusive relationship (between the age of 15 and 21). My ex occasionally got physical, but most of the abuse was emotional/verbal. He was also sexually coercive - I frequently had sex with him to keep the peace, said yes because it was easier than saying no due to his sulking and stonewalling if I said no. He was also the type to badger me for sex, especially after we had a row to "prove" I/we were making up after the row.

As a result of this, I feel very disempowered when it comes to saying no to sex. My current partner and I have had some issues because of it. An example was that for years if I said no, he would say ok and maybe give me a quick kiss before rolling over to go to sleep. For years I never mentioned this but took it to mean rolling away was him withdrawing from me to punish me for saying no. Fairly recently (last year I think?) I finally mentioned it to him and he said that that wasn't the case at all, he was just innocently going to sleep and hadn't realised I felt that way. So now in the same situation we'll cuddle for a bit longer to reassure me.
There have also been numerous occasions where I've had sex with him despite not being in the mood because I've been to nervous to say no. On the few occasions I have said "no" or "stop" or "I'm just not feeling it anymore" he has stopped and it's been fine. But my default setting if I'm not into it seems to be to lie back and think of England, or to be over enthusiastic to get it over with asap.

(tmi warning) We had an incident a few days ago which is really troubling me. We were cuddling on the sofa and I started to playfully pinch/stroke DP's nipples (which I know is something that gets him going) and he got very turned on. He jokingly said "if you don't stop that, we're gonna end up having sex" and I continued (we were sort of wrestling/tickling/playfighting at this point). Then he started taking mine and his trousers and pants of and I said something to the effect of "really? Really?! I'm desperate for a wee though". Important to note that I didn't say no, but my incredulous tone of voice was (I thought) pretty clear hint I didn't want to. We started having sex and I really wasn't enjoying it, felt like I was gonna wet myself tbh, but I reverted to default setting and played along, playing with his nipples again to get it over with asap. Then suddenly he stops and says he loves me, and I say I really wasn't feeling it and was desperate for a wee. He stops/gets off me and I run off to the loo feeling upset. Come back down and he apologises. I went absolutely ballistic, calling him a rapist and saying it was obvious I wasn't into it. He says he took my continuing to play with him after he said "...We're gonna end up having sex" as consent. I argue my tone and "need a wee!" protests were obviously not consent.

So what happened here? Did he knowingly have sex with me without consent? Or did I not make myself clear enough?

My head has been all over the place since, swinging between desperately wanting cuddles/love/reassurance and not wanting him near me. I'm really struggling.

What happens next??

[Canyouforgiveher]

Op I think it is clear you have some very serious issues around sex and understanding your own autonomy and consent. It isn't surprising considering your previously abusive relationship. You need to access counselling etc as a matter of urgency. For your own sake and that of your partner.

To be honest, I would worry terribly if my son/brother/friend was in such a relationship. I can't imagine my dh's reaction if I accused him of being a rapist in such a situation as your described. I am not sure he would be up for sex with me again ever.

[Isetan]

OP, what does this mean? I will suggest in the meantime he explicitly seeks consent.

You can not delegate the responsibility of knowing what you want, if you don't know what you want and/or, are incapable of communicating what you want.

The issue appears to be, not with him not 'seeking explicit consent' but rather your difficulty in accepting your responsibility, in giving consent. You need to see a professional ASAP and I'd advise against putting either you or your bf', in another situation that could potentially cause you both some serious emotional damage.

[WannaBe]

If I called my DP a rapist he would never have sex with me again and no doubt the relationship would be over.

I am sorry for what you went through in your past relationship, but this isn't your past relationship and your current DP isn't that man.

You need to seek some urgent face-to-face counselling to help you come to terms with what happened in your past and to form normal healthy relationships.

But in the meantime you need to end this relationship, it's very clear that you're not ready to be in a relationship at the moment, and if you stay here the damage to your DP is untold.

[category12]

Maisiejones, no I don't. The op and her dp have been together for years and this issue isn't news to him. So when she said she needed a wee, a pause to check in with her wouldn't have been unreasonable. I think she's triggered severely and people hammering on her (and calling her a pricktease ffs, what is this the 1950s?) is harsh and unhelpful. She doesn't need her self esteem kicked into splinters, she needs support to get some help.

[HarmlessChap]

An apology by email??

[DrMorbius]

I am surprised he's still with you after your outburst and calling him a rapist . You need to see a counsellor. Asap.

^^ very much this. I could not be with a woman that called me a rapist.

Even you post title is confusing crossed wires, FFS crossed wires is two sugars instead of one.

[kmc1111]

OP, what were you actually trying to achieve by initiating foreplay? You knew touching his nipples turned him on, he told you it was turning him on and that he wanted to have sex and you continued, apparently still quite happily. But then you're incredulous when he tries to take things further? From the way you word it it seems you didn't actually want sex at any point, not that you did but then changed your mind, so why on earth did you initiate things? Giving your partner a quick grope as you walk by is completely different to initiating sustained foreplay while cuddling on the sofa. That it will lead to sex is the obvious assumption in that case. If it doesn't, fine, but you seem to have been completely shocked that he wanted sex even after he explicitly told you he did! Wanting to cuddle and nothing more is normal, changing your mind is normal...it not even occurring to you that your BF telling you he wants to have sex might mean he's going to try to have sex with you is very far out of the realms of normal.

You weren't clear at all that you didn't want sex. You just said you needed to pee, but then you didn't go to the bathroom, so basically it was just a non-sequitur. Even if you didn't feel you could say no at that second, you could have actually gone to the bathroom and composed yourself or worst case, hid out long enough to ruin the moment. But you stayed and 'played along'. There is absolutely no way your BF could have thought he had anything less than enthusiastic consent. You initiated, continued after sex was brought up and then had what to him would have seemed like enthusiastic sex. You weren't sending mixed messages, you were sending very clear messages that you wanted to have sex with him, even though apparently you at no stage wanted that.

Your behavior in this situation was not for a second consistent with what you say you were feeling. Honestly, your BF sounds great, but it doesn't seem like it's a good idea for you to be in a relationship right now no matter how kind and understanding your partner is. You aren't just having regular communication problems, you're very actively communicating things you don't want to be communicating and putting yourself in triggering situations. I'm not sure how setting up safe words and phrases and getting your BF to ask for consent will help in that situation. You say and do things you don't mean and so he can't actually trust your words and actions. Without that, there's no viable relationship here.

[EttaJ]

Poor guy. You're punishing him for the way your ex treated you. You did something to him that you know full well turns him on and you kept on doing it. He made it clear it made him want to have sex with you but you didn't stop therefore letting him believe you too wanted sex . Then you're asking if he had knowingly had sex with you without your consent which I find utterly astounding. I am surprised he's still with you after your outburst and calling him a rapist . You need to see a counsellor. Asap.

[Theydontknowweknowtheyknow]

Your DP sounds like he is sensitive to your needs and he must have been to be called a rapist.

Apologise to him profusely and then get some counselling. Sex is supposed to make you happy not anxious and scared and that abusive XH of yours has a lot to answer for.

[sykadelic]

OP, what does this mean? I will suggest in the meantime he explicitly seeks consent.

I feel horrified at the thought your loving, respectful, DP, who by your own admission has never had a problem with you saying no, suddenly having to say something like "Do you want sex right now?" You've admitted that you'll say yes even when you're not into it... so how does him asking permission change that behaviour?

I would instead tell him that you'll have your own phrase for when you're not in the mood, and perhaps another for when you are.

I'm sorry for all you're going through. Remember he loves you and wants what is best for you and there is no need for you to punish him for your exes failures.

[mummyto2monkeys]

I think that you were being incredibly unfair to your dp OP. He told you his intentions if you continued, which is exactly when you should have got up and said 'be right back'. Why would you deliberately get your dp incredibly aroused when you know that you don't want sex? Was it just because you could? Were you not turned on at all? I would imagine that i would be as ready as my dh after what you have described.....

Do you just not enjoy sex ? I am wondering if foreplay is something that you enjoy with your dp, but sex triggers flashbacks to traumatic memories. If this is the case then you definitely need help, I would seek counselling. I would also apologise profusely to your dp, who sounds like a good guy. Perhaps you should take sex out of the equation atm,if you still want intimacy then foreplay with lots of reassurance and checking on both sides could be an option. You need support to recover from your previous abusive relationship, before it's ghosts destroy your current relationship .

Have you completed the freedom program? It sounds like this would be beneficial. (I have no personal experience but have seen it mentioned )

[Desmondo2016]

For what it's worth, although not directly related to sex, I had a previous abusive relationship and it's taken 5 years with my new AMAZING husband for those feelings to go. I used to apologise before saying things for example " I'm really sorry but I'm going to go out for a drink with the girls tonight, is that ok?' Or "I bought these new shoes but don't worry, they were 75% off' - that sort of thing. Dh just looks at me and gently reminds me he's not the ex. We become very conditioned, as abuse victims and it's very difficult to shake off. I think your bloke sounds lovely and hopefully this can be the start of a new phase and you can leave the worries behind, with a bit of help. X

[Forevertiredzzzzzz]

I can't see he did anything wrong really. I think you need to apologise for calling him a rapist etc as it sounds as though you were being playful which led to sex then he stopped when you said you weren't feeling it. I think your past relationship is still haunting you which is understandable OP.

[maisiejones]

Category12. You think she shouldn't prostrate herself with apologies? Well, I think she should do just that! She called him a rapist ffs.

[DrMorbius]

OP - your description of your actions was confusing, I don't see how you will communicate your issues to your DP.

Personally I would show him this thread and then let him decide how his future lies.

[Kungfupandaworksout16]

Wanted sex*

[Kungfupandaworksout16]

He is NOT your ex. From your post he respects you and loves you. He's everything your ex wasn't. Communication is key in every aspect of a relationship. In my opinion when he said we will have sex if you carry on , you carried it on because you wouldn't sex in his eyes. To call him a rapist was harsh. You need to apologise and be more open with him. Maybe a new word when you're not into instead of " stop or no "
Maybe counselling could help aswell

[TheNaze73]

You should have some counselling op. Your DP seems, like a good egg & he did nothing wrong IMO

[loobyloo1234]

Only read your original post so far, but he did nothing wrong my lovely.

I think you should look into counselling - I think your previous relationship is messing with your head very much so

[AyeAmarok]

But here you continued doing it when he said you were making him want to have sex with you.

I'm quite alert to things that some men (and women) will claim are actions of women who "wanted it really" when it comes to forcing sex on them, and they very rarely fly with me.

But this is different to pinching someone's bum then wandering off to the shower, this sounds like a sustained period of foreplay, effectively. You did something to turn him on, and then kept doing it knowing he was getting very turned on. He then actually said he'd want to have sex if you kept doing it, and you did, that is as close to you saying "I want to have sex" without actually saying the words aloud. You continuing to engage in a sexual act with him when he's told you it would lead to sex-there is no way someone would take that as anything other than you want sex (with your partner) too.

Think of it this way, if I'm doing sexual stuff to DP and he says to me "that's going to make me come" and I continue doing it, then clearly I want him to come. Even if I said "really?". I can't then acted surprised/annoyed if a few minutes later he comes! If I didn't want him to come (eg because I wanted to have sex or for him to do something to me first) then that's my cue to stop doing what I'm doing.

Don't know if that helps explain it. Sorry if TMI.

[category12]

I think he should have stopped and checked in with you when you said you needed a wee. But it seems like he is usually responsive to you. I wouldn't prostrate yourself with apologies, but you do need to clear things up and do some work together.

[Dontanalyseit]

I was confused reading your op and I'm not sure if you knew or not if you wanted sex although your behaviour made it look like you did.

[Lostandinsane]

Cabrinha - In answer to your question, I started to tease him just because it's sometimes we'll both do; turn the other one on when we're just chilling. For example I can be doing the dishes and he'll come over and kiss the back of my neck then walk off, or I'll squeeze his bum or nipples and waltz off into the shower. It's a normal, playful thing we do.

[PeppaAteMySoul]

Apologise to him. Explain were your reaction came from and have a look into counselling. It will be okay. It's hard to reset your thinking to that of a person in a "normal" relationship who doesn't have to be scared anymore. We will both get there.

[Lostandinsane]

Peppa, thank you for that post. It does help to know I'm not the only one. You've hit the nail on the head, I'm afraid to say no incase he doesn't stop or incase he hits me or lays into me verbally. Even though he never has!

God, I'm such a dick, overreacting in this way... I've lost sleep, not eaten and been tearful for days. And he didn't do anything wrong! Just having outsiders confirm that, rather than me worrying I'm minimising, has really brought me some clarity.

Off to compose an apologetic, heartfelt email to DP (he's at work). Poor bloke.