Is it possible to not realise someone's asleep

[charlotteswigwam]

I've lurked on mumsnet for ages but this is my first time actually posting something. I pretty much just need some objective answers to the question above, rather than judgements iyswim but to set out the full story...
A few nights ago my partner had gone out for the night whilst I stayed behind (we have a young child so this is quite normal). I went to bed in pajama bottoms and underwear and he must have come back much later (probably early hours of the morning but I didn't check). Anyway, basically I was woken up by him having sex with me. I didn't say much at the time other than whats going on (confused and sleepy) and didn't have a chance to talk to him about it the night after (he came back from work late, then our child woke up so I went up to him etc) but the night after, I told him how uncomfortable it had made me feel and asked him not to do it again. His first reaction was to laugh and say something along the lines of "so many rules"* . This annoyed me slightly (since I dont think its a particularly unreasonable rule) but he did agree not to do it again so I thought fine. Then in bed that night he returned to the subject and said that he hadn't realised I was asleep. I asked how he could not know I was asleep etc and he asked what I meant and it went on for a while. To be clear, I wasn't trying to be argumentative but it bothered me because if he hadnt realised then how could he promise it wouldnt happen again? His response was I didn't realise you were asleep so I won't do it again but logically that doesn't make sense to me. In the end after basically saying the same things to each other I just left it. My two questions would be -

1. how easy is it to really not know someone is asleep (As far as I know I don't normally talk/respond to things in my sleep, and he would have had to pull my pajama bottoms and underwear down etc. For me to not wake up sooner I guess I must have been quite deeply asleep rather than in a half awake state)
   
2. How can we stop it happening again? (eg how can he make sure I'm awake/asleep.
   

*As background to his so many rules comment: we had talked a few weeks earlier about how I find him too pushy sometimes about having sex. We normally sleep together about 3 times a week, and I didn't often say no, but when I did it was never just accepted iyswim. He would keep trying and often would wake me up a few hours later to ask again. I explained (nicely) how this was basically killing my libido and making me feel a bit crap and he agreed that I would (in his words) "be in charge" from now on. This bothered me a bit since I wasnt saying I wanted total control in a domineering sense, just that we should both have a veto if yswim. But to be fair to him he did stop doing it (actually until the night before the night in question when I had to properly shout at him to make him stop feeling me up. He did then stop however.)

[Bogeyface]

He does get it, he just doesnt think that it applies to you :(

[SilverBirchWithout]

Most men only like sex when the woman is up for it too and is quickly turned off when it's clear she is not interested. Your DP is not interested in mutually pleasurable sex it's all about having his needs met.

The incident when you were asleep ( & he certainly knows you were asleep) was rape because you were not able to consent.

Every caring normal man can quickly sense when a woman is receptive or not.

If this charmer needs clearer signals in order to avoid raping you again in future, he needs to ask verbally 'is this ok with you' or 'are you up for this at the moment' or similar words and then respect your answer. If you are asleep you will not answer clearly, it's as simple as that.

[SpeakNoWords]

I'm so sorry Charlotte, you shouldn't have to be dealing with this. The way he's behaving is not right, and to have sex with you without your consent is rape. The constant pestering for sex is grim too. Don't even think about the whole "finding something to complain about" idea - you've got legitimate things to object to because he keeps pushing your boundaries each time you pull him up on it. It's his fault, not yours.

Could you contact and organisation like Women's Aid for advice of what to do? Or maybe see a counsellor (without your partner) to discuss this?

[Canyouforgiveher]

I can't see how it is possible to have sex with an unconscious person and not notice they are unconscious. He decided to have sex with you because he wanted to and he really didn't care whether you consented to it or not. There is a name for that.

And apart from what he actually did, his response to you would really really bother me. Even if he thought you were awake (how???) "so many rules" is a bizarre response. A man who might have made a genuine mistake (how???) would have said "jesus you were asleep I had no idea, I was a bit drunk and you turned over and said my name, I thought you were awake, god I'm so sorry" So many rules tells me he doesn't feel there should be ANY rules for him when it comes to having sex with you.

he has a real problem with being told no to sex. That is not an attractive trait at best and is downright dangerous at worst.

[Tatiana11235]

He was pissed, he knew you were asleep and he didn't give a shit. He just wanted to get it wet. As simple as that really.
Tell him in no uncertaint terms you don't want it happening again. If he still does it then it's up to what you do. Either put up with it or don't

[Abed]

I wouldn't be 'putting up with it, it's rape FFS.

[charlotteswigwam]

Thanks for all the replies, I didnt expect them to be quite so unanimous... I will try to reply properly in the morning - I need to make sure I log out now

[SpuriouserAndSpuriouser]

OP I hope you are ok and safe.

It is most definitely not ok, and neither is being "pushy" with sex. As someone said upthread, most men aren't turned on when a woman is obviously not into it. If he wants to use you, when you are unwilling, for his own pleasure, that is a bad sign. You don't have to put up with it and it is not normal.

[RunRabbitRunRabbit]

He has now moved past excessive unwanted groping to raping you in your sleep the night after you shouted at him to stop the groping.

He is laughing it off, making it sound like nothing and is also making up ridiculous excuses to wrong foot you. Didn't know you were asleep? That's utterly ridiculous. Just stupid. I mean really come on, you know that's a total load of bollocks. He knows exactly what he did, that's why he's trying to minimise it.

If you don't come down hard, very very hard, on this, it will happen again.

You aren't planning on having sex with him 3 times this week are you?

"When you did that to me the other night then made up bullshit lies, it hurt me deeply. I don't feel attracted to you right now and I don't know when I will again. You've got a lot of work to do to regain my trust. How are you planning do that?"

[hiyahen]

This is the first time I've been moved to respond to a thread on AIBU after months of lurking.

If I go into the bedroom and my husband is in bed with the lights off, I assume he is asleep unless he indicates otherwise (by speaking to me).

I think that is what anyone would do. For that reason I cannot believe he walked into the bedroom ready to ask for your consent that night.

He got into your bed to have sex whether you wanted to or not.

This isn't the action of a loving partner.

Whether or not you started off by saying no and gave in under pressure (or changed your mind) in the past is irrelevant to what happened that night.

[hiyahen]

I meant reply in the relationships thread not AIBU

[Isetan]

He gets it, he really does, he just doesn't care.

He knew you were asleep and that's why he had sex with you. The bullshit about not knowing you were asleep, is exactly that, bullshit. This man's contempt of you really has no bounds.

When a man shows you who he is, listen.

[clam]

This thread has made me feel slightly ill. How could you ever want to sleep with him again? The persistent pestering before would have turned me right off, but this?

[MatrixReloaded]

it was never just accepted iyswim. He would keep trying and often would wake me up a few hours later to ask again

It sounds like he has been sexually abusing you for quite some time. Refusing to accept No and waking you is abusive. It sounds like the incident where you were sleeping is an escalation of the abuse as opposed to a misunderstanding. Unfortunately like all other types of abuse it will continue to escalate.

Decide where your line is. Would you accept this from anybody else ? Would you have dated him if he had acted like this in the early days ? If your thinking that if you can just get him to see your point of view he would understand , you are mistaken.

[crazycatdad]

There is no two ways about it, you were raped. No way he didn't know you were asleep. The question is, can you be 100% sure that was the first time, or just the first time you woke up?

I would recommend getting away from him ASAP, he has a very disturbing lack of appropriate boundaries which is dangerous for you. You should make a report to the police IMO.

[Hobbes8]

There's not "so many rules". There's one rule: that you consent to sex before he has sex with you. That's a pretty simple rule, the norm in most relationships, and the law, but he's disregarded it anyway.

[WhereYouLeftIt]

"Its just it always feels like I confront him on one part of his behaviour, he agrees to change and then starts doing something else instead."

It doesn't just feel that way, it is that way .

[CalleighDoodle]

This is so sad. He has worn you down so you think youre wrong. Phone womens aid when you can.

[MLGs]

Agree with others - this is rape and I would consider leaving him and going to police.

[differentnameforthis]

So he stopped pestering you for ONE day, for sex, then raped you that night...claiming he didn't realise you were asleep...yet told YOU that YOU are in control from now on?

It is pretty obvious that someone is asleep during sex, because they will be unresponsive.

You wouldn't have been physically ready, so therefore penetrating you would have been difficult

He raped you. You know that, don't you?
He is sexually aggressive - doesn't take no for an answer, wakes you up to "try" again

How can we stop it happening again HE not we, the only reason women get raped is because they are in the company of a rapist. The ONLY person who can prevent this happening again, should you not wish to leave him, is for him not to rape you again.

OP, you have NO control here, and him raping you, is him proving that to you!

[differentnameforthis]

I would say no at first, he would push and then I would eventually say OK then This is called coercion, op. You consented to sex to stop the badgering, again, sex after coercion is rape.

Its just it always feels like I confront him on one part of his behaviour, he agrees to change and then starts doing something else instead. Which is typical of an abuser

[HelenaDove]

Agree with diffname. Hes raped you OP Please phone Womens Aid.


I weep at what ive seen on this board recently.

[oldlaundbooth]

This is rape.

You need to get out.

This man is vile and a rapist.

Listen to what people on this thread are saying!

[oldlaundbooth]

So many rules?

Yes, not raping women is one of them.

Quite a big one too.

[SecretWitch]

I'm thinking about you, honey. So very sad this has happened to you and I'm afraid it may happen again. I've been married to two men, neither have raped me in my sleep. You don't have to live with a man who does this to you..