Feeling insecure - would this bother you or is it just me? (ExW related)

[FaithLoveandHope]

Hi All,

DP and I are having a few rows as of late. I think a lot of it is about my own insecurities rather than what he's doing. He has an ex wife, separated 3 years and official divorce came through 2 and a half years ago. I'm not the OW, we met shortly after they separated but didn't get together until a while after the divorce came through. They have a DD together who he sees often and I've always liked the fact that for the most part they have a very amicable relationship. However lately she will text him asking him to do something for her and if he doesn't reply immediately she will bombard him with texts and then say their DD needs to talk to him until he phones her and then of course DD doesn't want to talk anymore and has just run off. Last week she asked him to help move something for her twice. The first time I was okay with, he did it on a time he was picking up / dropping off his DD and didn't need to go out of his way. The second time though she insisted it had to be done that day. I'd actually wanted to spend time together as it'd been a stressful week and I thought it'd be nice for us to do something together. He didn't ask me if I'd had plans just assumed it would be fine and off he went on a one hour return trip plus about one hour moving this thing. He injured himself in the process which then meant our plans for the next day got scrapped.

On an unrelated (but in my mind interlinked) issue, whenever we try and discuss the future of our relationship it feels like it falls on deaf ears. It feels like I can't even talk about the future yet here is somebody who he married, had a child with and is still running around after. I don't know if it's just my own insecurities. Re the ex wife he says he wants to have a good relationship with her for the sake of their daughter but also that he really struggles saying no especially when in his mind there's no real reason to say no. Would this bother you or is it just my insecurities?

[FaithLoveandHope]

This is exactly right: you don't mind him doing anything for her but when it suits him and you not her, that way he's not at her beck and call but still willing to help out.

Last night we weren't specifically chatting about marriage and he brought it up and asked how I would feel about getting married next year! This year would be a no go for both of us due to various reasons but it sounds promising that he mentioned next year.

[iyamehooru]

I think it's your insecurity. There are too many crap dads in the world, let him be a good one but also ask him to draw the line at outing your time together second. Say you don't mind him doing anything for her but when it suits him and you not her, that way he's not at her beck and call but still willing to help out.

[FaithLoveandHope]

It's horrible isn't it :(

[Joysmum]

Me too and I'm 22 years into this one but things still pop up

[FaithLoveandHope]

Tbf to him I've made it sound worse than it is. Normally she asks him maybe once a month to help her. It's just the last two weeks she asked him twice in a matter of days and it's the way she (and he) went about it that bothered me. He sees her two days a week because of their DD and actually last night I was surprised, she dropped her off and left immediately. She told him last night she would drop their DD off at 8 am on Saturday and he told her no way - normally pick up at 9 and take her straight to her class which is 5 mins from her mum's. She kicked off and said fine you'll have to pick her up from her nans then which he was absolutely fine with so he is actually putting things into place.

You're absolutely right Joysmum and I think I do understand a lot because I know that I still have issues from my previous relationship.

[Joysmum]

If you've had to have the discussion I guarantee you ...you will repeat this discussion over and over and over again

Of course, people don't just shake off being in a controlling relationship and realise what is 'normal' or how to behave normally. That's why it's great to have an understanding person in your life who can gently point out what's normal for you. That doesn't mean it's not the responsibility of the victim, just an acknowledgement that abuse is their 'normal' and this takes a lot of time to overcome and rewrite.

[Summerlovinf]

Your bf's commitment to change would be more convincing if he addressed his behaviour rather than his 'being' (a doormat). If he took steps say, to only see his ex once per week or to only respond to urgent texts that might be a start. He's not made any commitment or plans to change anything and he's also convinced you that the lack of future planning in your relationship is your fault.

[Slowdecrease]

If you've had to have the discussion I guarantee you ...you will repeat this discussion over and over and over again. He's not ready. Trust me.

[FaithLoveandHope]

Thank you Dad your post made a lot of sense and it's really interesting to hear from the other side.

I don't know Lightening that to me seems a bit manipulative especially as I literally can't do anything to help. Hopefully now we've had a proper discussion about it things can start to move forward more positively and it'll be less of an issue.

[Lighteningirll]

I'd go with him be really smiling and helpful (even if you sit in the car and wait for him) he's doing the best he can if she is being if manipulative (if) she will give up or kick off either way it will bring things to a head which eventually means problem solved. If it's just that she needs help it will be great that you are there.

[1DAD2KIDS]

Hi. Thanks for your post it has given me food for thought. I suppose I am in a similar position to your man but for a couple of differences. I was married to an emotionally abusive woman. She was not overtly abusive, she was very covertly manipulative. I my case she left me and i am single parent to a 1 and 4 year old. We still talk most days and I do find my self doing little things for her. Maybe it's still a way she keeps a certain level of control over me plus the man she left me and the kids for is a bit of a waist of space (not being bitter he truly he is lazy, self centred and does nothing for her). I too what to keep a good relationship with her for the kids and some how she keeps me feeling sorry for her. Although I can't wait for the divorce to be completed and I want nothing romantic from her it feels like we will always be somehow bonded through a common history and the kids. I am not in a relationship but it has made me see potential pitfalls for if I ever find the time for one.

So yes I can know how hard to detach from this sort of manipulative woman. Especially in his case where she has the children.

Also if he's anything like me his former relationship will have put massive amounts of doubt in the future of any future relationship. Plus after previously falling in love with such an emotionally abusive woman really makes you question deep down ability to choose a partner wisely. For me I didn't realise the level of emotional abuse and lies till well after we seperated. So I am sure the previous relationship will have an impact on his willingness to comit.

I think such a relationship leaves alot of wounds that are hard to heal. Plus it sounds like the ex is still trying to exert a certain level of control over him. I think the best thing you can do is keep being open and talking to each other. Hopefully with time you can find away to make things work better and move forward in your relationship. Thanks you, your post has helped me see my own issues with my ex wife.

Good luck to the both of you.

[228agreenend]

Well done

[Joysmum]

Wow, what a fantastic update. Hopefully this marks the point where things develop into a closer relationship for you both, especially as you recognise it won't be easy.

Best of luck for your future

[FaithLoveandHope]

Thank you all. We had a chat last night and I think it went quite well. He realises it's his issue and not just mine re the ex wife and that he "needs to stop being a doormat" - his words not mine. He said he wants to work on that but obviously I'm not expecting anything to change immediately. I respect the fact he's trying and I do know it's not easy to just step back from emotionally abusive and manipulative behaviour. After discussing it quite a lot he respects the fact it's not about me trying to dictate his time but about us being a partnership and discussing our lives and plans together.

Re the future, he said he finds it difficult talking about it because I'm not as open as I think and what I say and what I feel seem to be two different things. I can understand that. In all honesty I think sometimes thinking about the future is just as scary for me as it is for him and I do think sometimes I'm sending out mixed messages. I was engaged before to somebody very similar to his ex wife. My ex did actually get as far as independent counselling but not couples counselling and it was at that point I realised he was never going to change. I think in all of this I'm reminded that it could've just as easily been me who has the ex husband and a child and so in a lot of ways I do appreciate things are difficult for him.

We've noticed lately we don't spend as much quality time together. We see each other a lot but don't seem to make the most of that time and so we've said we're going to make a conscious effort to spend proper alone time together 2 days / nights a week. I think in my mind I need to give it 6 months or so of us consciously making the effort and talking more etc and then reassess how things are then and if we're still not more open about the future then I need to seriously reconsider what this actually means to each of us.

[TheNaze73]

What Slowdecrease said is spot on. As a guy who split from his wife, I know we're all different but, it was around 4 years before I could comprehend a serious relationship. He just doesn't sound ready to me

[Slowdecrease]

The guy has relatively speaking just finalised one marriage I'm not surprised hes not in a big rush to discuss the next one. If marriage is what you want, this isn't the guy OP, I can tell you without any discussion with him at all, a huge commitment he made fell through and that takes time to recover and learn from , before leaping into it again.

[FaithLoveandHope]

My last post seems really contradictory. I mean we discussed a few weeks ago about us both getting help to buy isas and how if we saved like crazy we could afford a house together relatively quickly which I suppose is about the future really but nothing in detail really and I'd really like us to discuss actually getting married as that's really important to me. I think this evening we're going to try and sit down and have a proper conversation.

[FaithLoveandHope]

Joysmum I think that sounds like the best approach.

Cabrinha no we've not been together that long - just under a year. Sorry I should've explained that in my original post. We almost got together shortly after we met but neither of us were in the right place for a relationship and then it became a case of we were such good friends neither of us wanted to rock that by getting together. So actually we've been together a relatively short amount of time. Perhaps I need to remind myself that just because the feelings were there we didn't act on them and so actually it's not really been that long. I do think though we need an open and honest conversation about where things are heading. He's alluded to the fact he'd want to get married and we've discussed buying a house together but if I actually try and sit down and discuss things he just seems to close up and not really talk about it.

[Cabrinha]

Too much focus on the first issue - though all the replies on it are valid and helpful.

But not being able to talk about the future? Sounds like you've been together 2 years from what you describe? If you can't openly talk about the future after 2 years, walk.
He can't say no?
Bet he can to you.
Seems to say no to talking about your relationship.
After two years I'd expect a man to be able to say to me "yes, I really see a future here", and definitely be able to talk about it.

The XW is an issue - but I'd sort out the second issue before deciding whether the first is still your problem!

[Joysmum]

A nice open conversation about trying to make your relationship as good as it can be and you being worried and not wanting to inadvertently push any buttons which had been activated by his previous relationship is the only way forward.

We can only guess how he might be feeling.

It may be much of her manipulation isnt even registering as remember he's been conditioned to this over many years so her manipulation is natural to him, even if it's obvious to everyone else she's manipulating him still.

[FaithLoveandHope]

It wasn't intentional but perhaps that's how he sees it? I just genuinely wanted to spend time with him. If I'm planning on doing something I normally discuss it with him to make sure he didn't have plans that could be affected so I guess I just assumed it'd work both ways.

[Summerlovinf]

The second time though she insisted it had to be done that day. I'd actually wanted to spend time together as it'd been a stressful week and I thought it'd be nice for us to do something together. He didn't ask me if I'd had plans just assumed it would be fine

it was that section of your OP that gave me the idea that you were arranging his time too. I don't blame you for trying to get organised, sounds like he's still running around after his ex and is not assertive enough to either say no to her, or to make proper plans with either of you. I really doubt he's going to change.

[FaithLoveandHope]

I'm not trying to organise his time Summer I'd just like to have some discussion and for my plans and thoughts to actually be taken into consideration!

[Summerlovinf]

I'd guess he probably feels guilty and like he can't say no. And now he's got ex and you both organising his time for him - no wonder he won't make future commitments. I don't think you're going to get what you want from this guy.

[Joysmum]

I would explain it in a way that you are concerned for him, rather than you being uncomfortable.

Wait for the next thing to come up and then remind him how the last time he was manipulated into calling and then doing her favours on the guise of his DD daughter wanted to speak to him.

If he's been the victim of this behaviour in the marriage, hopefully he'll start to see that just because he's out of it doesn't mean she's duddenly stopped that. Difference is that now he can put his own boundaries in place rather than accept the manipulation any more.