Non existant proposal

[SoVerySad100]

It was my 30th birthday this weekend and I went away with friends and my boyfriend of 3 years. I've been planning and looking forward to this trip for months but it was a disaster.
At Christmas I overheard my boyfriend speaking to a mutual friend (I was in the same room but he was quite drunk) about his plans to propose to me when we were away for my 30th. This really took me by surprise as we hadn't spoken much about marriage specifically, just the fact that we were planning on being together, buying a house, starting a family ect.
I have spent the last 3 months fantasising about and preparing for the proposal, and getting more excited as my partner mentioned things related to it- he was going to give me a special present whilst we were away, mentioning friends who got engaged, asking is I liked their rings etc.
Long story short, he didn't propose, wasn't planning to and it was apparently something stupid he said when drunk and he doesn't seem to remember it.
I am gutted because instead of enjoying this much anticipated weekend away with him and friends I was so focused on the engagement and we argued the whole weekend because it became clear fairly early that he wasn't going to propose.
He also didn't bother coming to see my family as planned to celebrate my birthday after the weekend and (sorry I know this is going to sound spoilt) he got my presents totally and utterly wrong. though I suppose it would be hard to get them right when I was expecting a ring.
The annoying thing is I was really content with our relationship until I heard him say he was planning an engagement and now that is hasn't happened I feel like I've done something wrong. I'm also gutted that the weekend was spoilt because of this. I acted like a brat but I can't help it, I feel absolutely devastated and humiliated that I built this weekend up to be some huge romantic special one and couldn't relax and have fun with my mates.
Has anyone else expected a proposal and felt let down? And how do I fix this, I feel like my partner ruined not just my birthday but any future engagement we may have. Am I overreacting? Literally feel gutted

[FredaMayor]

OP, assuming you are both 30-odd, discussions around marriage have been unsatisfactory and OH is not seeking to reassure you all mount up to you wanting different things IMO.

If you want DC in the future it only makes sense to do it with some who is on side with you. I think you have a stark choice now.

[Cabrinha]

Sorry for the hijack OP!
I wanted to answer the question - but also show that people can be wary of marriage as a legal construct for viable financial reasons.
I personally wouldn't weaken my financial position (e.g. children) without marriage. But at the same time I would think twice before marrying someone where that protection isn't needed.
Doesn't mean I wouldn't marry, as I've shown... But it would be a thought out logical decision for me.

[Cabrinha]

You're really massively projecting your feelings about your friend onto me there 😂

• I told you why I want to marry. As a public and private commitment. Is the fact I see it that say a result of social conditioning? Yeah. I also want to marry so we make next of kin decisions for each other. He watched his wife die - we have had conversations about things like resuscitation and trust each other more than anyone else to follow our wishes. I also have a provision in my pension that only goes to a surviving spouse, no-one else - and we'd be crackers to lose that! I have plenty of reasons to marry. The "downside" is that that comes with him gaining rights in the event of divorce. You seem to be focusing on life changes where you still love each other - I'm focused on the ones where you don't!
  

• I am not assuming that pre nups are legally binding. I explained this above. They're not - but courts are increasingly using them as an input to explain the original intentions of both parties.
  

• your friend's husband may be in a weaker position with no idea of her assets. Not relevant to me. My fiancé owns his house outright. I also have a detailed asset list (just house, pensions, savings) alongside my will with my solicitor, my executor and in my fireproof box at home. He has seen these. He agrees and also wants his assets to go to his kids. Don't paint him as some downtrodden bloke left in the dark!
  

I'm marrying him because I trust him. If a new law came in 30 seconds before I died meaning that all wills were revoked and husbands took the lot, I trust him to think - she wanted to have it - and hand it over. If our circumstances change, so will our decisions. Your friend might be dithering on her will - I'm not like that.

None of my reasoning is about wills or illness - it's all about divorce. And the best way I can manage that is not marry, or use an experienced solicitor to guide me on what a pre nup can potentially provide.

[SirChenjin]

So OP - how are things going today? Have you talked things over any further?

[MeMySonAndl]

(she is married on a separate assets basis, which is the reason their marriage certificate is not exactly protective of her or her husband)

[MeMySonAndl]

What I mean is that things only work while circumstances remain the same (or you both have a lot of money) Obviously, if you need to stop working due to illness, a house needs to be sold given an unexpected down fall, or your child dies, do you really think that you would have the energy at the energy/ desire to sit at that moment and discuss changes to the prenup agreement straight away? nope, you just assume that your wife/wife/husband will be with you or take care of you regardless. Just as you are assuming that that prenuptial would be respected when you know is not legally binding.

That's why I don't understand why would it make sense for you to marry, you don't want to put your assets in the same pool, and they would be better protected if you don't tie the knot and you are obviously keen that nothing belonging to you goes to him. Is it just to deal with the social conventions?

You remind me a bit of my best friend, she has a great job and salary, her husband not so much. She has protected all her financial interests to the point her husband doesn't even know of certain accounts she has. She has also being so busy that has not had a chance to update the blooming will. She is protecting her assets so well, that if she dies suddenly, the only thing that the husband and DD are sure to get is the house they live in. She has been telling me that she will update the will, mentioning the other assets, "in the next 6 months" for the last 6 years.

[Cabrinha]

How can you feel secure enough not to discuss things? The more secure you are, the easier it should be to talk openly.

[Cabrinha]

Is there a rogue autocorrect in there? I don't understand what you're saying!

[MeMySonAndl]

That sounds very good, but circumstances change, and that's were vulnerabilities start, because once life in common begins you somewhat feel secure enough not to discuss certain things.

[Cabrinha]

MeMySon we both have houses. We're in the process of deciding practicalities - we don't live together yet as we both have children at home and choose not to combine households. Current plan is that he moves into my house and let's his out. So I might not allow him any interest in mine (and vice versa, mind!) If I die, he can go back to his house.
Or I may give him a life interest if we decided to sell his house. It will all depend on our circumstances and our wills are living documents. Currently both have said all our assets will go to our children.
He's a widower - we're both aware that life can change dramatically.
The best way to give him no potential rights would be to not get married, yes, because a pre nup isn't binding. But we want to marry - for no better reason than that we do We want to make a public and private commitment, we want to be each other's next of kin (he nursed his wife until her death and had to make care decisions - he really knows what this means).
I also want him to gain the spousal pension from my scheme when I die, if you want a less romantic reason!
The practicalities are different for any couple. I am the higher earner currently, he has more equity in his property, I have more pension... I love him but sadly I know marriage can end in divorce - and if it does, I don't want him to have money that could go to my child. He feels the same.
That all probably sounds antagonistic - it's not, we've discussed it and we agree, he wants his house to go to his kids, too.
We're very much middle aged and see no reason why the other should be entitled to anything in a divorce. As I said before, no joint children, no career impact...

It stands for me at a younger age though too. Unless I was putting the other party at a financial disadvantage (career break, limitation, moving for my job) I would be protective of my assets.
I believe - although sorry, no example - that some legal systems keep assets gained pre divorce separate. That makes sense to me.

Example of my friend: earns £80K, husband £50K. Both good pensions. Neither a SAHP. Latest house move 5 years ago was to further his career and actually held hers back. House owned outright from inheritance to her. He slept with female prostitutes and casual sex with men. Gave her chlamydia. She ended up with a mortgage for £100K to buy him out of the house, 50/50 asset. Would rather stick in my craw!

I think it's perfectly possible to love someone and be hopeful for a long life together without thinking "yeah, you can just have half my assets when we split".

[amarmai]

get good legal advice before you buy a house and have cc with a man who does not marry you .

[MeMySonAndl]

So Cabrihha, what happens if you get ill or die before he does? do you make him leave his home so your percentage goes to your child straight away?

Wouldn't you both be better off not getting married at all? With separated assets all the time?

Honest question, not having a dig.

[Cabrinha]

Well thanks for that, SirChenJin There's room in this world for different approaches.

There's nothing wrong with thinking twice before putting yourself in a position that's financially quite disadvantageous.

As it happens, with my fiancé (with whom I discussed a pre nup which whilst not legally binding would be considered as clear intentions of the parties) is actually in a better position than me now, but is unlikely to be in 10 years time. So it's actually to protect him initially.
We're both happy with it. But we're both getting ready for our second marriage and can't have more children, there'll be no giving up careers for the other.

I want all my assets to go to my child - well, those I haven't squandered personally on fun and fine things!
No matter how much I love my fiancé, I'm not keen on the risk that we could divorce and he could take assets I wanted to pass on to her.

I wouldn't expect or accept a pre nup if I was a lower earning spouse giving up earning power to support another's career or have their child. But in the absence of those, no - if I divorce I don't want to give my hard earned money to someone else.

[AnchorDownDeepBreath]

You need to ask him outright if he wants to marry you.

Whilst it's entirely possible that this was a drunken conversation and the rest was confirmation bias, and he didn't mean to mislead you, the fact that he hadn't reassured you that he does want to marry you could be very telling.

If he doesn't want it now, there's no guarantee that will change. It might, but it might not. You don't want any big commitments with someone who isn't too sure if they want to commit to you, so your house and baby get further away. If you need to find someone else to persue those dreams with, you want all the time you can get.

While I can fully appreciate that you want to go back to how things were, this is a vital opportunity to make sure that you are actually on the same page and this isn't just talk and financial agreements.

[DinosaursRoar]

I would talk to him about your future, you are 30 now, you don't have another decade to bob around hoping it all becomes sorted if you want DCs.

Say that you want children and would like to be married before hand. That you are 30 now, if you want DCs in the next 5 years (or whatever time frame you have), then if he's not really wanting those things, then he should say so, as it's not really fair to let you 'waste' your fertile years with him.

As others have said, keep repeating to yourself, having a child is a commitment to the child, not to the mother, taking out a joint mortgage is a commitment to the bank, not a commitment to the other party in the mortgage. If he wants to commit to you, he'll commit to you. As the lower earner, you are more likely to be "the logical decision" to go part time or give up work after having DCs. Yours is going to be "the logical" career to take the hit, he should want to give you the protection of marriage.

[Naicehamshop]

99percentchocolate - I can't believe you are making excuses for your DP - he has been really unkind IMO!!

(Sorry OP!!)

[MeganBacon]

I think it is natural for you to be very disappointed. I think he probably was planning it at the time as we don't tend to say totally unthinkable things when drunk, and the other clues are all there. I think he bottled out or just changed his mind.
It's put you in the position of the person who wants something that the other one is holding out on, and that's a very bad dynamic that you must try to change to get the relationship back on a healthy (more equal) footing before it becomes entrenched. I second trying to build a more independent life as other posters have suggested to redress the balance.

[SirChenjin]

Good job everyone isn't like you then.

[Cabrinha]

He's entitled to whatever drunken conversation he wants!
And I agree that the comments afterwards were you assuming things with this knowledge. It's not his fault you overheard the conversation!
I understand why you'd be disappointed - but you ruined this 30th weekend for yourself.
Btw - I'd think twice before marrying a lower earner than me - I made a prenup part of my acceptance.

[donajimena]

My partner did something similar. Hinted at a ring even made a joke about me being his fiancee at a function later on in the year. (I'll be taking my fiancee ha ha )
Of course I got a little carried away in my head...
I then had a conversation about our future goals only for him to say well we can't get married because x, y, z...
I was really cross because it was like something I had been expecting (because he fucking alluded to it none of it came from me!) was suddenly ripped away from me.
I felt shaky for quite a while even though I am 100% confident that we are as equally comitted. I told him in no uncertain terms that his 'jokes' were crap and not to mention the M word again unless he put his (metaphorical) money where his mouth is!
However I am a lot older than you and I'm not planning children. I just wanted to say I completely understand how you feel emotionally.
I'm not bothered at all now but I would stress as others have marriage is massively important if you are sharing a future with children. Its not wrong to say to him that you will not consider having children without being married. You MUST have that talk. If he won't I'd be questioning if he sees your relationship as 'the one'
It would be terrible if you broke up over this but it would be even worse if you broke up in four or five years time having been strung along by the promise of 'one day'

[scarlets]

I think you need to have a really candid chat. Don't be fobbed off with, "I'll propose when the time is right" - this isn't 1920 and you're not a blushing 19 year old - you need to be taking control of your future.

[MeMySonAndl]

I think that is the sad thing, that at some point you realise that you shouldn't be so trusting as you cannot fully rely on him (at least if you read that in their reluctance to marry).

And then you embrace your independence and realise that you are actually doing very well on your own thank you, and gradually lose interest in the relationship.

[AuntieStella]

I read the OP's interpretation of the later comments as confirmation bias. He could simply have been talking about newly engaged friends because they are friends, mentioned a special present because he was buying something he thought would be special (and there are oodles of possibilities other than an engagement ring) and commented on friends' engagement rings simply because they'd recently been flashing than and he was making conversation.

Which means I don't see it as him leading you in with expectations. He was talking wildly when drunk (as as proved by events, didn't really mean it), and he had no idea you'd overheard let alone built up a whole scenario on it.

But it has had a value. It's made you think about what you really want. And now you need to talk to him about it.

And yes, you need to maintain your independence until you are sure you want a shared future with him.

[LeaLeander]

I don't want to feel like I did the last few months, waiting for and expecting a proposal.

Why passively sit around and wait? If you want to marry him, why not ask him instead of hankering and hoping for months on end? Then you would know where you stand.

Or is it the grand gesture you want from him - the bended-knee, I cannot live without you my beloved! scene that you envisioned? Again, shouldn't you know that by now, one way or another, about someone whom you may allow to impregnate you? If he hasn't declared that he wants to spend the rest of his life with you, why plan to buy a house and "ttc" with him?

It is not much of a "proposal" if you have to armtwist, prompt and guilt someone into making it. Why not find a man who unreservedly and enthusiastically declares his long-term commitment to you, and is willing to back those words up with the legal protection marriage would give you?

[RedMapleLeaf]

I feel like i should go back to being as independant as possible, not go out of my way for him and as another poster suggested do more for and by myself.
that makes me sad because to me the whole beauty of being with someone is trusting them and being able to rely on them, i'm not sure how to balance that with not relying on them to complete my happiness

Very good question imho!