How do I change this dynamic?

[AKAmyself]

I'm really upset with Dh. We have a good supportive relationship but there's something not right with our sex life and idk how to change it. Put simply - Dh doesn't "do"'intimacy outside of sex, no occasional kiss, no cuddles, no holding my hand or hugging me before we fall asleep, in summary very little body contact. He also complains regularly that I don't make myself available to him sexually enough (as in - we don't have sex frequently enough). After a few days when we haven't done it he becomes sulky, uncommunicative, and passive aggressive. I know he's punishing me for it and I hate it. He claims I'm never in the mood, but I disagree completely and I tell him that the reason I'm not in the mood is that he doesn't create the conditions for me to be in the mood , he expects me to simply switch it on from zero to 100 whenever he feels like it.

This week was a case in point. I worked last weekend and was exhausted (though we still had sex on Sunday noght). He was away mon-tue and came back late on wed night when I was already asleep. Thursday night I went to bed at 10 I was so knackered and he tried to initiate it but I was basically already asleep and said I was too tired for it. Well, yesterday he came home from work, didn't say a wOrd to me, read all evening and went to sleep without a word. This morning he's still not talking to me and he's now left without speaking.
.
As I write this I'm getting really angry and depressed. I realise I am always actively counting the days we go without it and making sure we don't go over 3 or I know it will be awful between us. I enjoy it but it's very much something to tick off my to do list to make sure we keep harmony in the home. But I should be allowed to say not if I'm truly exhausted as I was on Thursday after 12 straight days of work with no breaks, right?

This is so unromantic isn't it. I resent him for making this so transactional (is it too much to ask to go out once in a while, have dinner together, or simply spend us time ? He never plans or wishes for anything like this. I've stopped planning for things like these as I find it just too depressing to always be the one driving this kind of intimacy) and he resents me for not putting out more.

It's all so unhealthy but he refuses to even talk about it and acknowledge we have a problem. As far as he's concerned I am the problem.

I love him dearl, I am attracted to him and our relationship is otherwise great but this is too much. I know I'm going to have to initiate sex tonight to make peace (after a day of him having treated me like shit) and I cannot tell you what a turnoff this is.

How can I change this dynamic?

[Joysmum]

From that link (if understandably you're not happy to click on links:

^Rather than using physical force, the abuser will frequently use coercive sexual abuse.

He will use guilt, pity, anger, moods, nagging or accusations to 'persuade' us. He does not see this as sexual abuse, but it is. Any sexual act that has been coerced is abusive.^

[AKAmyself]

I read the link. It's not. I am very comfortable categorically stating this and I ask that you consider the possibility that I might be right. Again I appreciate the intent and the support but this is not the dynamic were in.

Randomness thanks for your post. I wasn't clear on whether you and your Dh managed to sort things out and if so, was it thanks to therapy? It gives me hope that unhealthy dynamics can be changed and that with love and a mutual desire to grow you can turn things around. This is what I'm after

[AKAmyself]

Thanks sarahlou. You are right. I will tell him once more and hope he sees the importance of it

[LastInTheQueue]

Ok, so you both want to fix this. But, seems you're the only one doing the "fixing" by watching out for his moods and meeting his needs. You clearly love him and want him sexually, but your needs (for intimacy) don't seem to be met, so what is he doing to meet you halfway?
Personally, good sex is more than the physical act in the bedroom or wherever, surely?

[AKAmyself]

Yes lastinthequeue, that's exactly right. Perhaps these are the words I should use - that sex is not just the act but a way of living and loving each other.

[LionHearty]

It's hard to accept the situation for what it really is because if the situation is abusive (and it is) it's not just communication, it's about respect, lack of empathy and care

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How can you sex to appease him be anything but abhorrent, to both him and you? How can he want coercive sex? This is not just about communication.

[LionHearty]

X posts, as slow typer. . I hope someone has the solution you are looking for.

[Joysmum]

After a few days when we haven't done it he becomes sulky, uncommunicative, and passive aggressive. I know he's punishing me for it and I hate it

It was you who said he uses moods to punish you for not having sex. That's coercion, coercion is sexual abuse. Either he's punishing you with his moods or he isn't?

I wish you all the best for your future. I'm hiding the thread now

[AKAmyself]

Thanks for taking the time to post Joysmum. I'm not sure why you feel the need to hide this thread but do whatever you need to do.

[DoreenLethal]

I know he suffers from a difficulty expressing his feelings (physically, verbally, emotionally)

No he doesn't - he make sit PERFECTLY clear when he wants sex.

[Choughed]

Well OP you either live with it or you don't. You can't change your DH and he's unwilling to change himself. You can't issue an effective ultimatum while you are in the relationship so what about separating until he gets the help he needs.

There are not enough "good points" in the world to outweigh sexual coercion in a relationship.

[MatrixReloaded]

You say he's not abusive. So what's the problem ? Tell him you'll no longer be having sex when you don't want to. Being the non abusive man he is I'm sure he'll accept this.

[EasyToEatTiger]

I can absolutely recognise that you are not in a position to accept that there may be something a bit more to this than what you write. Play it by ear and everyone will be here if you need us.

[TresDesolee]

I know how hard it is to break down the wall because I tried and I couldn't.

I know my ex isn't an abusive man. He was genuinely devastated when he realised I no longer wanted to have sex with him. I know if he could go back and change his behaviour to change the outcome (separation, him living apart from his kids) he would.

My heartfelt advice is to take a deep breath and absolutely insist on counselling. And talk about what's happening, when it's happening - 'you haven't hugged me for x days; I feel unloved'. 'You want sex and I feel I have to have sex to make you stop sulking; that's shit'.

It's incredibly uncomfortable and unpleasant, but separating is pretty shit too.

I don't regret my separation because I'm much happier now than I was before (and am with a man who cannot stop hugging me!) but I wholeheartedly wish I'd insisted on counselling earlier than I did. My ex was genuinely astonished at how far I was willing to go to get the physical affection I need; 15 years of occasionally mentioning it to him turned out to be a completely ineffective communication strategy (because he didn't understand, and didn't want to do it, so would just hope it had gone away when I stopped talking).

You need to make him understand that this isn't going to go away.

[TresDesolee]

Oh and do not - DO NOT! - have sex when you don't want to. That really does fuck with your head. as far as your DH is concerned, having sex with him makes you feel loved. He needs to understand that it doesn't - it makes you feel coerced, because you do NOT feel loved.

Over invested, sorry!

[AKAmyself]

I'm getting really uncomfortable with the tone of some of the answers tbh. Do you get a gold star or something if i admit to being in an abusive relationship? Because this is about me and my life, not your need to be right. And it may be that I'm blind and stupid but bullying me into an admission is unlikely to be v helpful rn.

But heartfelt thanks to all those who have posted constructive advice.

[AKAmyself]

Thank you TresDesolee. V honest advice. I can see exactly how I'm enabling him to continue this emotionally stunted behaciour

[Cabrinha]

OK, question for you if you feel that punishing you until you have sex with him (your interpretation there) is not abusive.

What is it?

What do you think is happening?

That excess testosterone builds up from the mere presence of 2 day old sperm that actually has mood altering properties?

He's choosing to be nasty to you when you don't have sex.

What would happen if you said to him "I'm not interested in sex right now, because you're being very rude me?"

Would he genuinely suddenly realise that's what was happening, apologise, and back off?

[TresDesolee]

You sound a long way from blind and stupid OP. These things are very nuanced - adult intimate relationships are hard!

But please, as a takeaway - hold on to the fact that you should absolutely never have sex you really don't want. Have a massive row instead - it's honestly much healthier and I wish I'd had the courage to do it.

[Choughed]

I'm sorry if you are feeling bullied OP. It's hard for people to understand every nuance of your relationship as we only know what you post here.

I think it's easy to ignore the bad stuff in a relationship if lots of it is good. It's also natural to feel compassion for someone if they've been affected by past events. But your own happiness and well being is being badly affected by this situation.

As I said before, you can't change someone. They have to want to change for themselves.

What was he like at the beginning of your relationship? Was he moody when he didn't get sex? Is he moody with other people? If the answer to either of those questions is 'no' then it shows he can control his emotions, he just chooses not to with you.

[AKAmyself]

I take this as a very valid takeaway TD. Thank you. I mean it

[DoreenLethal]

But heartfelt thanks to all those who have posted constructive advice

No problem.

[Hillfarmer]

You shouldn't feel you have to have sex to make sure your partner stops being nasty to you. It does say something pretty awful about your H if he sulks until he gets sex. It is emotional blackmail isn't it? And there's obviously a very fine line between emotional blackmail/manipulation and emotional abuse. You may understand his family background with regard to affection etc. but it is a rather vile way to get what he wants, whichever way you slice it.

It is a shame that his behaviour is, understandably, turning you off sex with him when you actually do want to have a healthy sex life. Is he not at least concerned that his behaviour is a turn-off for you? Why would he want that?

This may not be an abusive dynamic OP, but what everyone is seeing is someone who is reluctantly having sex in order to stop someone (in this case the person who is supposed to love and respect her the most) giving her the silent treatment and being a bit of a shithead. It's not how I would want to see a friend being treated. I would be concerned.

[SanityClause]

DH was like this.

He also comes from a very dysfunctional family.

I really resented that, in effect, his signalling that he wanted sex was to sulk until he got it. He would also start arguments, after which there would, of course, be makeup sex.

So, I stopped rewarding this behaviour. I told him I didn't find sulking sexy, and it didn't put me in the mood for sex. I refused to have sex with him if he was in a mood. I also stopped having makeup sex, which was effectively me rewarding him for starting an argument by having sex.

We went to counselling. She basically gave me permission to say "no" to sex, or any other form of touching I didn't want. She gave me permission not to have to justify myself to anyone. I could say "no" because I damn well didn't feel like it.

We're not out of the woods yet, but things have definitely improved. DH is much less sulky (now it's not working for him) and I enjoy sex more because it's not something I feel guilted into doing to appease him - I'm doing it because I want to.

We only went to counselling because DH thought we would split up if we didn't. (A lot of stuff came out about DH's childhood, and he went to counselling on his own, to sort it out.

Your DH may currently not feel there is enough at stake for him to need to change.

[Nanny0gg]

Was the situation you are in now, the same when you met? Did you get romance and cuddles and hand-holding then? Or the silent treatement when you didn't 'put-out'?

It's all so unhealthy

Indeed.