Mumsnet jury needed - best friend and DH have upset me

[Pages]

Have been fed up of late as despite a really nice Xmas break I have been up with the kids every morning and DH stays up late and sleeps in. Have raised the issue several times and he makes promises that I will get a lie in next time that never materialise.

Last night best friend stayed. Every time she stays I go to bed att 11 and she stays up with DH talking and drinking till early hours, I get woken up and am fed up and feel unsupported because they both lie in while I am up early with kids. Just raised it with both. DH is angry with me that I have made a scene in front of her. Best friend feels it is my issue with him and she is on holiday and shouldn't be told when to go to bed. I feel like I have two litte ones and two teenagers in the house with me. Am realy uspet that noone cares how I feel.

[Pages]

I do think you are right however about spelling out what I need from people before it gets to a point when I am wound up and upset about it and I think that is where I am at fault here (as have admitted to bf), I may have expected her to mind read how I felt(although I don't think anyone would have had to spell it out for me after the first time it happened)

[Pages]

Actually Tigermoth, my bf is very sweet in other respects, I don't cook for her - or if I do it is something simple. We usually get a takeaway and she makes herself at home in the kitchen making tea and plays with the kids, etc. I don't feel stressed by the visits, in fact I was really looking forward to her coming.

The issue really is a very narrow one - she is someone who evidently likes to stay up late and lie in late, and I am just useless the next day if I don't go to bed at a reasonable hour. She probably misses our youthful days when we sat up nattering and getting drunk till 3 a.m but I just can't do that any more. And tbh don't want to as my life is about my kids now, I wanted us to get up and go out for a nice long walk with the kids in the buggies and let them get out and splash in puddles. I didn't actually want to sit up drinking till 2 or 3 a.m and let my kids watch tv with DH while I slept. I just wanted a decent nights sleep and another adult up with me in the morning.

Btw I am not criticising anyone else who might want to do this but I am a working mum and so my weekend time off with the kids is precious. Also DS1 needs the stimulation of being out and doing stuff and I can't do it on my own.

[tigermoth]

I really feel for any parent of a SN child who knows that the hands-on stuff will not stop as they grow older. Being constantly on call and on the look out is, for me, one of the hardest things about being a parent.

Pages, I think you do well to have so many house guests. Can you rethink how much you ask them to do when they visit you? What postive things can they do to make life easier? They may not realise how to help you. IME guests (if they are nice and want to come again!) will do things if asked specifically and/or pre warned beforehand. Can you and your dh talk through this together? Would it help, for instance, if your next guests come prepared to help cook a supper for you all while you concentrate on the bedtime routine?

[Pages]

PS Thanks Lazyemma, not offended.

[Pages]

LOL Jimjams at DS1 and Stumpydog at your dog method of rousing! Jimjams, you have summed it up entirely. It IS relentless. She has no idea what a luxury a lie-in would be for me, I have been sleep deprived for 4 years and whatever his faults life is not a picnic for DH either. My bf gets up whenever she wants whenever she isn't working and goes to bed at night knowing that no-one will disturb her till the morning. That is something that neither me nor DH have or will ever be guaranteed again.

It is a shame my bf doesn't really get it - she did say she would not do the same next time which is nice, because at least she cares, but she is treating it as if it is because of some sort of neurosis of mine that she will be understadning about it for my sake. She told me that she has numerous nieces and nephews and that it has never been an issue when staying in her siblings houses, the kids go to bed late as does everyone. My kids have a fairly strict bedtime regime, partly because DS1 needs that routine and partly because I also need those 2 to 3 child free hours in the evening to have some time for myself and she doesn't get it that my kids need attention all the time and DS1 will always do, as Jimjams says, they don't just play quietly or engage in adult chit chat while you watch a movie. But I also suspect that there are times when the mother of her nieces and nephews feels a bit silently aggrieved. She may just not know about it.

But I also think you are right Blu otherwise why not just agree to disagree. It wasn't anything fundamental after all, I just said I felt a bit unsupported. It wasn't a character assassination or anything.

[stumpydoglooksforwardtospring]

when i have guests and i want them up i quietly open their door slightly, knowing the dog will get in and jump all over them, it always works!

[lazyemma]

Sorry if I offended you, Pages. It obviously wasn't clear in my posts that I absolutely think you were right to be upset with your husband about this, and were right to pull him up about it, even in front of your friend. The getting up after 2am bedtime remark was aimed at him, not you. I didn't at first think you were being fair on your friend but now you've gone into more detail (and now that I've actually read your earlier posts properly) I do see your point.

[oliveoil]

I think if you stay at someones house, you should get up and go to bed when they do.

And look after their children (if you don't have your own) so they can get a bit of peace.

Different thing, but at MIL's at Christmas, she was running around doing 100 things and all red-faced and politely asked someone if they needed anything, expecting them to say "oh no, I'll sort myself out", only for them to ask for a coffee and reach for the remote! Her face said it all.

[Jimjams2]

actually one of the funniest things I've heard is a (male) friend pleading with ds1 to go away at 6.30am No chance he wasn't going anywhere- except into bed with him

My friend had a guest who opened his bedroom window without my friends knowledge she only found out when her ds rushed in to tell her that his autistic sister was hanging out of it. She had hold of the window by her fingertips- she was about 8- my friend had to drag her in and bruised her dd's stomach doing it. Dangerous things guests

[Blu]

Hmmm, well the fact that she was begging for an aquittal from you makes me think she has a guilty feeling somewhere!

Before I had a child of my own I often visited friends whio did have kids, and never behaved as if i was staying in a hotel. When you visit a friend as a houseguest you know you are going to be living in thier circumstances, and as a friend and guest, you should be as considerate as possible - not make a huge mess in the kitchen, not demand spagbol at 3am, and in some small way, act as a member a=of the household with regard to childcare! I regularly used to watch early morning tv with a freinds toddler, knowing that when i got back home I could have as many undisturbed lie-ins as I wanted! Yes it's your DH's main responsibility, but your friend sounds a bit insensitive, inconsiderate and selfish too.

But maybe that is my heartfelt view having had childless relatives to stay 4 days after we moved house just before Christmas, who also took naps and had lie-ins and didn't occupy DS for more than 3 mins to let us unpack!!!

[oliveoil]

I agree completely.

When I didn't have children (but had a social life) and stayed with my friend, I got up at 5.30am when her 'darling' angel poked me awake.

She was full of apologies but it was her house, I told her it wasn't the Hilton and I didn't expect peace and quiet.

[Jimjams2]

And sure that sounds envious- I am envious of people who will/have wave(d) bye bye to their completely independent children, who don't have to do all the getting up in the night, all the toiletting, all the supervision- (or live in the knowledge that it will get better and decrease). I have no problems with them having lie ins and rests and all the rest of the stuff they can do at home/on holiday, I just don't want them doing it in front of me.

[Jimjams2]

oh that's tricky pages- it sounds like she doesn't really get it which is a problem with a bf. I understand what you mean by the dismissive bit. When people used to go to bed during the day it left me feeling like a) they didn't care about the fact I'd had no sleep b) they didn't care about the fact that I never have any time at all and c) it hadn't occurred to them that it will always be like this. That when ds1 is 25 we'll still be responsible for getting up, for accompanying him to the bathroom etc It's like you're less important than a few hours sleep they can have at any time. I think when it was happening to us it was because the people concerned hadn't really recognised that our life was any different to theirs with children. Now we've got over that, but still very few people understand the feeling of point c) the sheer reletntlessness of it, with the knowledge that it will never go away, the thought that lie ins and naps are something that we'll never be entitled to.

[Pages]

Thanks Jimjams, I will look into that. We do on occasion pay DS1s keyworker at nursery to take DS1 out so we can get some quality time with DS2 (or vice versa) so it would be nice if there was some help with that financially. I can physically do it by myself but it is stressful as they both want to get out of the buggy and walk but if I let them they both go in opposite directions! Neither will respond to a command to come here. It's a bit like having 16 month old twins.

And yes, Tigermoth, I think it is DH's lack of assertiveness (well probably both of ours actually) that has led to all this. I do feel better today as he acknowledged my upset last night and said he was sorry I was upset. But I do feel my bf could have been more thoughtful too. I would have been.

One of the reasons bf is upset is because another friend of mine had come two weeks earlier and we had had a brilliant weekend because she arrived early and was completely focused on my boys (she really wants kids but hasn't got any) and we went to bed earlyish(just because she does like I do) and we got up early the next day and had another great day out. I only told bf this in brief to explain that I was hoping for another weekend like that, hence my disappointment, and she has taken it that I am saying she SHOULD be like that, which I am not (though it would have been nice). My bf told me she was coming as soon as she got up but didn't arrive till 2 by which time it was raining and tehre were only 2 hours of daylight left, and the next day by the time she was up and had had breakfast it was time for her to go home as she had plans. So I was just a bit disappointed about the lack of togetherness and connection between us I guess, even though I do understand there is no reason why she should not come when she wants and spend the time as she wishes.

I kept stressing to her that I wasn't saying she SHOULD do anything, I was just telling her how I felt but she insisted before we put the phone done that I admit that she hadn't been unsupportive of me and that I admit she was "innocent". Which I did because I don't like her to be unhappy and my boys were crying for their tea. But it has left me feeling a bit "dismissed" by her as if my feelings were irrational and my stuff not hers. But hey ho, there you go.

[tigermoth]

Perhaps you could talk to your dh then? Spell it out to him how he can politely end a conversation with a guest so he can go to bed when he wants to. Or set his mobile so it rings at midnight to remind him! Then he has no reason to be kept up by a guest(and disturb you) till 2.00 am.

[Jimjams2]

pages I do understand- when you are living the way you do (and ds1 has been up since 2.45 today- which means I've had to be as well- and I know what that does to my temper ) and you have people who you think "get it" then they demostrate that they don't at all and are just like the rest (even if only momentarily), it's depressing and upsetting, and once again you are the one dealing with the whole lot of it. If I had someone staying here at the moment who tried to have a lie in today (our 2.45 am morning follows a 1am morning earlier in the week) I think I would be barely able to talk to them out of sheer disappointment once they dragged themselves out of bed.

Re- not being able to go out without someone else- know that as well- do you have help from social services- I applied for help when ds1 was 4, and we now get direct payments- I use them mainly to employ someone to help me with an extra pair of hands, so we can go out during holidays, can get ds1 a pair of shoes (2 person job) etc. It took about a year to organise, but I'd really recommend applying for direct payments. SS were sympathetic to the argument that being stuck in for weeks on end because of their brother was not good for ds2 and ds3.

[Pages]

And I can't discipline DS1 before anyone suggests Supernanny - he is 4 and can't talk or understand what I am saying to him

[Pages]

Also feel a bit affronte by the suggestion Lazyemma that there is no big deal about going to bed at 2 and getting up with the kids. But do yours wake you through the night? DS1 and DS2 both woke at least 3 times after DH and bf went to bed. DS1 gets up in the night and plays for two hours sometimes and DS2 is teething. I never get an uninterrupted nights sleep - ever. That is why I am tired. And that is why I shout at 2 a.m

[Pages]

And yes, Jimjams, bf knows how difficult my life is and one of the reasons I was looking froward to her coming is because I can't take the kids out on my own without another adult present and I had been stuck in the house a lot of Christmas as DH hasn't been well, so I was hoping we could get up early, leave DH to his own devices and do something together ie get out of the house with the kids(which didn't happen).

[Pages]

Tigermoth - you are on the wrong track...honestly! I wanted to point that out after LazyEmma said it because I wanted to stick to the point and not let the conversation go off on a tangent about something it is not about. I can honestly assure you that them "flirting" (LOL and I'll tell you why)was not an issue for any of the 3 of us and was not raised by anyone as we all know that it is not one. It really is only about the issues I describe.

But since we have now gone off on that tangent I will explain why it is not an issue. The only other thread I have posted about DH goes some way to explain this and if I could do links I would - it was a thread about him being irritable a lot and we Mnetters all came to the conclusion that it is because DH is such a hermit and doesn't like company much that he was like it. He has always also felt hugely socially responsible and I do feel I need to defend him a bit here because his relationship with bf is much more one sided than she realises. I knew that he would stay up if she did more out of duty because he would feel he had to. He is not a normal bloke in that he doesn't flirt with other women (I wish he would so he would realise how gorgeous he is) and he is almost too possessive with me. I actively encourage bf to have a friendship with him because quite frankly he doesn't have any other friends and I don't actually want to be his whole world all the time. His words when I told him bf was coming to stay, as they are every time were "Oh no, how long is she staying for?" It isn't personal, he just is not good socially and has always preferred it when it is just me and him. BF knows he is that way to a degree and we also have a very honest relationship so she knows it is not an issue. Although she doesn't realise that he doesn't like people staying really (anyone, not just her - I have another girl friend staying next week who is very pretty and single - bf has a long term partner btw - and when I was arranging it with her yesterday he was nudging me and shaking his head saying "no not another house guest".

So that gives you some idea about DH. He is not a normal bloke, I even have to persuade him to socialise with his own family.

Also, bf is the salt of the earth, she would never try and undermine me deliberately and I like that she thinks so much of my DH.

I do feel a bit sorry for DH getting so slated because although he is a lazy bugger about getting up in the a.m, given a choice he would definitely have preferred not to have to entertain my guest (as he sees it) and he wouldn't (90 per cent of the time anyway)have been up that late had she not been here. That is not meant to be casting blame it is just a fact. And before anyone pounces on DH for being disingenious it is not that simple for him. He tries to be sociable but finds it hard and he does genuinely like my bf - but he really does prefer the radio to most people a lot of the time including me!

[tigermoth]

pages, I'm sorry to hear your friend argued about it again today. I do think she was thoughtless, especially as you had told her very recently that you have problems sleeping. But I agree with those who say that mainly is it your dh who is the most responsible.

You say your friend felt upset and offended by your confrontation. Do you think she felt you were implying there was some flirtation going on between your dh and her? Indignation about this might have made her blind to the simple issue of your lack of sleep. And could this partly explain why your dh was also angry?

I know you say everyone in your circle can see you and your dh have a rock solid relationship, but perhaps your friend just can't comprehend your sleep problems as she has no children of her own, so has irrationally assumed you felt threatened that she was up talking to your dh.

I may be on the wrong track entirely but as this seems to have caused lots of upset all round, it's just a thought.

[kickassangel]

pages, i'm with you on this. dh is terrible baout getting up, but has at last realised i should be allowed a lie in. as our room is above the lounge, then other people staying up does affect me.
just glad that before i had dd, when visiting my bf, who had 2 kids getting her up at night, i went to bed early, then did all the washing up for her the next day ebfore leaving. didn't want to be patronising, just flet i should do something to let her sit down for 5 mins.

[Jimjams2]

If I went to the house of someone who was ill, or for some reason hadn't been sleep deprived for years, or the house of someone with a new baby I would respect their need for sleep, and I wouldn't lounge around expecting to be waited on. It's only asking the same consideration in return.