Just HOW do I protect my kids?!

[flowerlily]

I name changed for this. I'm at my wits end and need advice please.

I fled an emotionally and physiologically abusive relationship two years ago. I never reported the incidents leading up to that day when I feared for my life and I never reported the incident that occurred that day, when I genuinely feared for my safety.

My three children were witness to the unprovoked verbal attack in which my ex threatened to end my life. There was lots of shouting, and at my children were screaming. At first chance, with my kids in tow, we ran out of the house. I never went back after that day. But because I stupidly never reported the incident at the time, when I tried to get full custody of my children, they said there was no proof that these events occurred, and that it wouldn't stand up in court. I was refused legal aid and advised that even with all the money in the world, without evidence that my ex was an unfit partner, he would not be refused custody.

Months went by. We had a shared informal custody agreement of 50/50. I was never OK with it but as we both have Parental responsibility, and he was over powering, I could not do anything about this.

His treatment of the children are appalling. He is verbally and emotionally abusive towards them. Calls them names, swears at them, belittles them and they have confessed to 'learning how to behave so dad doesn't loose his temper with us'. It breaks my heart.

Ive contacted Social services 3 times now. They are not interested as he hasn't hit them and because the only way I can ensure they are safe, is by going for full custody. I know this, but I have no case. Even with all the evidence.

Families First were involved briefly at my request. Again, they did not even interview my children!! I was so let down.

A threat of violence was made towards my eldest last month. I reported this incident with the police. They said that he hasn't actually committed a crime. Therefore the best they can do is log it and refer me to Social Services.

SS have called to say there is nothing they can do to help! They will put me in touch with Families first again.

I feel so let down by the system. I have informed the Doctor, Schools, SS, FF, Police. Been to Citizens Advice, Family Law and various other organisations.

I've hit a brick wall. I feel like I am fighting this on my own. I thought prevention was the best thing? Why are they waiting for something bad to happen before they do anything?

My kids love their dad. They are also very scared of him. They want to stay with me and for their dad to 'get help and be nicer to them'. My ex will not be reasoned with. I've exhausted every option with him. He will not listen to anyone. He doesn't think he is in the wrong.

I've told him he can not have the children until he addresses his anger issues etc.. He said no chance, he'll be picking them up as normal. I have had to arrange to pick my children up early every day from school just so I get there before him. This just isn't right or sustainable.


What steps can I take next. I'm so drained and feel deflated and cheated.

Sorry for poor spelling and grammar. I'm just so tired.

Thanks in advance

[thejanuarys]

This sounds awful and I have total sympathy. Lots of good points already made, but I'll reiterate some.

I speak from experience.

Make a proper diary - daily logs of things that have happened. Flesh them out.

Don't question your child about any of the issues / situations - otherwise you will fall into the pit of you 'encouraging' a certain point of view on an issue.

Make a regular appointment with one GP and give them an update of what has happened. Time consuming yes, but will serve you in the long run. And also illustrate the level of stress you are being put under.

CAFCASS is a Children and Family services. They will only get involved if there is 'gross' abuse - they are not concerned with this type of abuse, even though they should be as emotional welfare of a child is (or should be) recognised by the courts.

Ditto Social Services. They, in my experience, are not very good at monitoring / helping with this type of abuse. You will have to do the leg work.

If you are on Tax Credits and can show unemployment, then the courts will waive their application fee. You will need to take documents into the court with the application. The problem with this route is that you are a Litigant in Person, so you will most probably be bamboozled with the court system.

Going to court is challenging. The following may help before you go down this route:

Go back to the police and state that they have a duty to log all domestic violence incidents - and the threat of violence to you a month ago needs to be logged properly. Theresa May, Home Secretary has enforced new guidelines for police to record all incidents of domestic violence and they need to ensure that this has been done properly and take the necessary steps to protect you. Your ex has committed a crime - he threatened you. Make sure you get a Crime Reference number and that they take down your statement fully. This needs to be done soonish.

Also, ask to speak to the Domestic Violence Unit at your local police station. Each, or each district, has one. They are generally way better than the police person on the desk/on the phone. 'Advance' and 'The Minerva Project' come to mind, but it depends on where you live. They will be able to advise. They can also help you get the statements you need.

If you can get through to them, call Rights of Women and Women's Aid. They may be able to provide a bit more support. They may also be able to pass you onto local groups. Essentially, you need someone with domestic violence knowledge to help you monitor your situation.

You need 'organisational' support as well as your diary. The school may prove to be a red herring, but it may help monitor any abnormal behaviour after their contact with their father.

Also, they will be able to provide you with someone whom you will be able to speak to at length to support you whilst you go through this. Also, they will be able to help you with the Pro-Bono unit if you need to go to the court solution. But be aware, this will also be a massively stressful situation.

Sadly, there are no easy solutions. You have an abuser as your children's father, and this is something you need to get a handle on now before it is too late.

Good luck.

[amarmai]

have you claimed for maintenance? Also do you get any social assistance $$? Salvation Army, YWCA, churches , -can they help?

[gingersam]

Try the bar pro bono unit ( Google helps find it) also what pp has said re talking to school
Inform the father what you are doing and why you are doing it ie withholding contact put there onus on him to apply to court
There is no automatic right to see a child it is the child's right for a relationship with parents if ^it is safe to do so
or beg borrow 215 get it into court asap^^

[wallywobbles]

From what you have said here (in the time it took me to construct my epic post) what you are really lacking is someone backing you up - and I'm afraid that is the job of a lawyer, it really is. You need to find recommendations for a good lawyer and go and see them and talk to them about your finance issues first.

There are ways of doing it cheaper. They tell you what they need and you get it for them. But you cannot just allow this to go on because you cannot afford to stop it.

[MumOnTheRunCatchingUp]

As your DC are old enough, then your 'proof' is also tied up in what they tell the courts via cafcass. How they feel and how their dad makes them feel

You can self represent in court

You can have a meeting with school and they can call you if dad turns up to collect DC and 'stall' him til you arrive

Every problem you've given has a solution

[wallywobbles]

I want to tell you my story, because I think it is probably fairly realistic and not uncommon, and it may help you to see that the important thing is the long game.

First thing to say is I am not in the UK, but in France, where it is generally considered harder than the UK to protect your kids.

I was divorced from my EA alcoholic ex husband when my kids were 2 & 3. I felt sick every weekend they were there. I worried how far he would go in their ill treatment to punish me.

At the time of the divorce he chose to have them only every other weekend to punish me (he got that wrong). Then when he had understood what he had got wrong, he then went for 50/50 but he lost. By this time I had got a very good lawyer.

There are 3 things to understand at this point:

Judges do not like turning over previous agreements.

They will not turn over previous agreements without there being a significant change in circumstances.

Lawyers, will generally accept flexible payments terms, and good lawyers are not necessarily the most expensive.

So, then he accused his mothers partner of abusing the children - no evidence of abuse was found after a 2 year enquiry. I supported my ex parents in law, because I knew this to be the case. But, they were my support network, and the damage to that was huge. The kids could no longer to their grandparents, even after the enquiry, as I risked being painted as a neglectful mother.

Then his mother took us all to court to get a right of access (in France the Grandparents have rights). I supported her claim, even though I knew that it was likely to have a negative impact for me. She won - so now a triple access arrangement, with my ex MIL having the first 4 days of the two week holidays in Oct/Nov, Christmas, February, Easter and one week in July and one week in August.

All through these proceedings I:
Was non confrontational, kept it to the facts and went for a narrowly defined thing.
Always always went for the interests of the children, even if it wasn't in my own interests.
Let me lawyer speak for me, practiced the one sentence she gave me to say. (I am bilingual, but stress does make you stupid).
Answered any questions I was asked briefly.
Had any and all evidence ready to hand - including recorded death threats, drunk phone calls etc. The judge can hear these if the person recorded agrees to it. He did - so the judge heard his death threat.
Get witness statements from people, in France we have set forms for this but I'm not sure how it works in the UK, but I imagine there is something similar.

What we discovered is that if we gave him enough rope he hung himself better than we ever could. We would go to court and my lawyer would read her 1 page statement, and he would read his 58 page statement and look like an utter nob. He would bring up everything that had happened all his life, every past court date, things that his mum did when he was a kid etc.

Every time he threatened the kids or me, I went to the police and made a complaint, so there was a paper trail. Every single fucking time. I never expected any action to be taken - there never was. You are building up a dossier against him. Brick by brick. It is only when this is high enough that you can win.

I found someone (turned out to be our GP) that the kids would talk to, who was prepared to do statements for the court. Finding someone the kids could talk to was a major difference for them. I have now found a proper psychiatrist who they are prepared to talk to, but it is really hard to find someone they like.

I explained to the kids that everyone would try and manipulate them, because everyone, even me - though I would try not to, had so much to loose each time.

My eldest was deeply affected so we looked at the Out of the FOG website, which has been really helpful. My kids are mature beyond their years in certain ways as a result of all this, but the only way you can protect them is by being upfront, so they know they can trust you.

I told the kids what was going on all the time. I explained that I could not go to court just because I thought it was wrong, because I would loose, but I would support them if they ever choose to, all the way through. This is something I think MNetters find hard to accept. It's not because we don't love our children that we let them go to abusive partners. Its because if we stop them going we could loose them forever.

When my children (aged 8 & 9) had finally had enough - and said they no longer wanted to go back - after he had trapped them and yelled at them and threatened violence for 2.5 hours. Then I could finally do something. So I made appointments, and it takes weeks to sort them out.

We went to the doctor, where the kids said more and she said they musn't go back. So from her office, where I now had more facts, we went to the police and they interviewed my 9 year old, and I made a complaint on her and my 8 yo DD's behalf. We came out of that with another piece of paper for my lawyer.

Then I went to the appointment with my lawyer, to tell her that I wouldn't be sending the kids back to him. She made a representation to the court for an emergency appointment, which we got a month later.

I then went to all the local gendarmeries to tell them what I was doing, in advance of my kids next date to go back to him (3 days after my lawyers appointment) for a month of summer holidays. I said I would be putting my kids out of harms way, but I would not tell them where they were. They all knew that my ex had issues. I had reported the death threat to them, but they had refused to take action (unlike the police).

Then I informed my ex they wouldn't be coming to him. And the shit hit the fan.

He made a complaint when the time came and went. I now have a criminal record as a result. I accepted that I had done something illegal, against the legal court agreement for our children, and said why. This was another piece of paper for the lawyer.

We went to court, the death threat was heard which although not relevant to the case really really helped, and the judge agreed to hear the children. My ex brought up the recorded call saying I had manufactured it, which allowed for the recording to be heard with his agreement.

The kids were awarded their own lawyer, and a week later we went back for that - just the kids one by one, with their lawyer and the judge. She took statements. She let me read them (I took scans on my phone), and then 3 weeks later we got our judgement.

The judgement was 2 hours a fortnight in a visitors centre, for 4 months. At the end of that time, we were meant to agree a new agreement between us, or one of us was to request a new court date (more costs). The children chose to have a break from seeing him. We no longer have any valid court judgement.

We are now a year on and they have not seen him again. He rings for end of term school reports and their birthdays.

The children are much happier and more stable. It took 8 years to get here. And it may be temporary, but having been heard by the judge once, they will now be able to be heard by the judge every time, which is a significant difference.

The kids also understand that if either of them choose to see him again, it does not mean the other one has to. And that I will defend their right to make a choice all the way.

Anyway, all in all, good luck.

[bibliomania]

Procedure for emergency hearing

[bibliomania]

In the middle of last year, DD came back from contact particularly distressed, to an extent that I felt unsupervised contact was no longer safe.

This is what I did:

• emailed NSPCC (who independently contacted SS)
• encouraged DD to talk to school (who independently contacted SS)
• contacted SS myself and told them that I was going to apply to court for an ex parte interim order to stop unsupervised contact. SS agreed to give me a letter noting the concerns expressed by the NSPCC and the school and stating their support for my application
• I went to court by myself and got the order. Someone sent me a really helpful step-by-step link - I'll try to dig it up.

We're still going through the court process, and I'm not sure where we'll end up, but finally there is a SS report where the safeguarding concerns are on the record. Contact has been supervised since then. I think my ex will get some form of unsupervised contact at the end of the process, but certainly not 50:50.

[ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight]

I'm saying that ss can't step in because they don't have the resources to do so. It costs a huge amount of money to issue care proceedings and your case wouldn't meet the threshold because you are in a position to protect them by withholding contact or obtaining a court order.
I appreciate you feel frustrated and I don't blame you but the idea that ss can step in and provide help is outdated. There should be early help services in your area that can offer support especially around parenting but they are voluntary- nobody can make your ex engage in it unless it was ordered by the court.

I just struggle to see why you're at risk of losing your 50% status quo care if you go to court. Can you build up more evidence? Report him for previous dv now?

[flowerlily]

Obsidian. . Mckenzie friends told me that at the family law centre. He said my ex could end up with 50% if not more, if I don't have sufficient evidence. Which based on what I told him, I don't.

[flowerlily]

Thank you ofdod. To my knowledge he does not abuse alcohol. I do believe he smokes cannabis but can not be certain.

How do I stop contact if we both have PR? If he collects them from school, there is nothing I can do. Genuine question as I'm worried I'm missing something. Thanks

[flowerlily]

Obsidian. . Yes I have read your posts. Have you read mine?

I realise ss cannot deal with the legalities of custody. In my posts, I mention my experience with the family law centre. What they had advised me and without proof it is highly likely I will not get full custody. They concerned proof as in physical harm.

I also can not afford the courts.

Again, I can not simply stop contact. We both have PR. He can collect them from school just as I can. I can not stop that.

I don't know what I expect from ss tbh. I feel let down as I thought they were there to protect vulnerable children. To prevent them coming to harm, or use their mediation service to help my ex build a relationship with his kids? Yes I know in theory it my job. But aside from never letting my kids out my front door in case my ex gets them then I don't see how I can fully protect them!

My ex is an emotional bully. He's unstable. I cannot reason with him

[ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight]

Flowerlily have you read any of my posts?
Children services cannot take the place of private law. It's not their remit. If you think the kids aren't safe with their dad then stop contact - and apply to court for an order to make it official.
You are expecting children's services to do the job for you. You're the parent, you act first. Public law (care proceedings) is not the correct procedure for a contact issue.

If you take all the appropriate protective action within your power and he continues to act abusively then you have an issue to complain over.

[flowerlily]

Thank you Throwingshade. No I am all for my children speaking to SS. I'm actively trying to arrange this but SS don't want to know. I'm a little flabagasted.

[flowerlily]

OK mumontherun. .I'll word it differently. We both have Parental Responsibility! You know what I meant! The children do have rights..rights to feel safe and secure and to be protected. I can only do so much nd currently cannot guarantee to keep them safe as their dad CAN have them back if he wishes. It's not right

[Throwingshade]

I'm so sorry you and your kids are going through this. Thank God your children has a strong, devoted, loving mother who is doing everything she can to make sure they are protected. Please remember that.

You say you don't want them to speak to SS or get involved but might that be a strong move, for them to tell authorities how afraid they are of him? Sorry if I am way off the mark.

Now that emotional abuse (intimidating, coercive, controllling behaviour in a family relationship) is a criminal offence, it's so frustrating for you that he is not seen as a threat to your kids (or to you when you were together)!!

[MumOnTheRunCatchingUp]

No he actually has NO rights over the children. Neither of you do. It's the DC who have the rights.

[ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight]

Who advised you that he might get more than 50%?

[springydaffs]

Really feel for you. I hope you find a way

[flowerlily]

Mumontherun. .. how do you expect I can do that??? He has as much rights over the children as I do at the moment. He will not listen to me regarding contact. Aside from keeping them prisoners in their home and never sending them to school, I don't see how I can prevent him seeing them!!

[flowerlily]

Actually I have tried on numerous occasions with the family law centres. They said I need pay the fees (which I cannot afford) and I do not qualify for legal aid.

Also. Family law centre (mckenzie froends) said that despite my case, it will almost certainly not hold up in court as no act of violence has been committed. He said I run the risk of my ex getting more custody than me if not half. I kid you not. I was speechless.

So yes. I feel let down