Feel like I'm being taken for a chump

[HarmlessChap]

Hard post to write, partly as being a typical bloke its not easy to talk to others about personal stuff but also because as a male I feel like I'm entering the lion's den here but I want the opinions of women here, so where better than mumsnet.

The background. We've been married for nearly 20 years and I've always been the driving force in affection and intimacy in our relationship. In our early 40's (we are both the same age) my DW decided that sex was finished and we haven't been physically intimate for several years now, but in the last year its become not only sex but hugs, kisses and so on. I still hug her but its not really reciprocated and often she pushes me away. Same with kissing, a peck is OK but anything more is a no no.

Friends have said I should leave her but I love her dearly and also I'm not OK with becoming an every other weekend dad and lets face it unless there is something bizarre the woman always gets custody.

She seems jealous of any life I have beyond the marriage and periodically accuses me (without foundation) of having affairs, her justification for this seems to be that I keep myself fit, like to be well presented and smell nice which she seems to think I'm doing for some other woman but I'm doing it for my own self esteem and have always have done.

Anyway what brought things to a head for me was when I hit the anniversary of my mother's death, which is always a really hard time for me, I was asked what was wrong as I was very introverted and down and when I reminded her I was asked if I "wanted a hug or something" but I feel that if she really cared she would have just given me the hug(s) without needing to ask.

I'm currently feeling needy and unreasonable and when I raise these issue my wife's attitude is that "well that's just what I'm like......you should know by now". Is it normal that as we get to middle age couples stay as friends but stop being lovers or am I just the comfortable, safe option.

Anyway, thanks for getting to here and any opinions welcome, do feel free to be blunt and to everyone else, yeah I know TL;DR

[EBearhug]

If your youngest is 13, you've probably got 5 years till they're both off doing their own things and won't be living at home, at least not full-time. In some ways, it will be gone in the blink of an eye, but in terms of living with no affection, it's a long time.

[TheVeganVagina]

This isnt fair or normal. I can understand your apprehension about leaving. Unfortunately you may be seem as the bad one. You neex to have a talk with her. Dont let her try to get out of it. Yoh need couples counselling to work out any issues also. If she wont do any of these things, if it were me i would wait a few more years until my dc were of an older age and then leave. Sex and intimicy are normal healthy parts of a relationship.

[HarmlessChap]

At the moment it sounds like you're basically flatmates, crossing paths cordially enough but never adding any new intimate moments to the stockpile.

That's spot on, exactly how it feels.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

What do you think your children are learning from the two of you about relationships here?. After all we learn about relationships first and foremost from our parents.

What do you get out of this relationship now?.

Your children likely see far more than either of you perhaps care to realise as well; they can and do pick up on all the unspoken vibes. They may even wonder why you are actually still together because their mum's lack of love and respect for you is all too apparent. It will do them no favours at all for them to see another five years of this only for one of you to leave when they are of age. I doubt very much that either of them would be too inclined to visit either of you very often going forward if that happened.

She needs to tell you why she is acting in the ways she is because there are always reasons why. Withholding those reasons from you is unfair.

[HarmlessChap]

Hmmm, we had a chat. There is some resolution to put some effort into things and some pointers on what I can do to help matters along too. I get angry too easily, not aggressive more Victor Meldrum style frustration, I'm an emotional person but I need to be a calmer sometimes as she finds it unappealing when I get a cob on.

I've told her how depressed its been making me feel and she's said sex maybe something we can look at too......"but not tonight".

No specific answers about why things have got to here, but some hints towards her feeling unattractive, which kind of confuses me as I would have thought that my being affectionate and showing a physical interest would reinforce that I find her attractive, sexy and desirable but instead she has been rejecting and not reciprocating affection.

So lets see how things move along from here, I've communicated that there is a problem which needs to be addressed and we have agreed to work together towards sorting it out. If nothing much changes then I think we need to get some counselling and I will suggest it.

Actually stating that there is a problem has been quite cathartic, there was no surprise from her so obviously aware already. I don't want to pre-judge any outcome so I shall take it as it comes.

[hellsbellsmelons]

Well I'm glad you got it 'out there' with her.
That's a good step.
I really hope things work out ok for you both.
Good luck.

[HarmlessChap]

Well over the last week my mood had tumbled, I'm feeling like a drained, numb and empty. I suspect that I'm depressed, phoned the GP who said to ring for talking therapy and I've booked a couple of appointments, but they couldn't seem me for a couple of months, which is disappointing to say the least. Just got to try and muddle through until then :(

[Offred]

Ah saw your previous update.

Re the you finding her attractive thing; that may only make her feel worse. If she feels unattractive how you or anyone else says (or shows) they feel about her may not change her feelings about herself. It may just feel like pressure to do things that she feels uncomfortable with and cause her to focus more on her feelings about herself.

Maybe she could do with therapy re her crap feelings about herself and her insecurity in the relationship that is causing her to feel resentful and paranoid?

I think it's good you are getting some therapy (eventually) but try to remember that you can't fix her. You can only work on yourself.

[RandomMess]

Regarding the affection/sex.

Could you discuss with your DW that you make a point of being affectionate each day, just a 5 minute cuddle in bed/watching TV or something with no pressure for it to go on anywhere further.

Sometimes when you've got into a long habit (what ever the initial cause) it is very uncomfortable and feels alien to start being affectionate again.

TBH it's probably the same with you talking properly to each other, having honest conversations about how you both feel. Just listening to each other without taking it to heart, trying to fix anything, or blame each other. Once you stop it's hard to change it and that lack of emotional intimacy is difficult to survive without.

Now your DC are older and not needing sitters perhaps you should make a point of doing something as a couple each week - even if it's a walk, or going to a craft event. Just time engaging with each other.

Shame about the length of wait for the appointments - is that NHS? Could you afford some private sessions?

[BlondeOnATreadmill]

In our early 40's (we are both the same age) my DW decided that sex was finished and we haven't been physically intimate for several years

^^ This is completely untenable.

The thing is, even if you managed to have sex now, you would feel that you had coerced her in to it, and that's never going to really feel good, is it?

It is not normal at all, for a couple in their mid forties, to say that their sex life is over. You've got decades left (I hope), before that conversation should pop up.

She is insecure about you and other women, because she knows that she has checked out of the sexual part of your relationship. I think she's got a bloody cheek actually!

No wonder you have mood dips. So would anyone who was in your shoes. I think you've been a saint for not going totally off the rails.

PP said what I was thinking - if you really can't bear to leave before the kids are adults, there's only 5 years left. But I wouldn't go another 5 years without sex. Sit her down and tell her that if you two can't get your sex life back on track, then you seek her blessing to pursue a sex life with someone else. You are a young man still, and this cannot continue.

Harsh maybe, but enough is enough.

[ProfGrammaticus]

Poor you, OP. Everyone on here will tell you to leave, but your teenagers are unlikely to want to try to live in two places, even if you could afford something larger than one bedroom. So you may see very little of them if you go. It may be better to stay put a few more years if you can, stick out their exam year a and leave once they are at university.

[RandomMess]

Blonde - would you say the same if there was some reason why sex had stopped, such as illness, surgery etc.???

I raise this as a genuine question because sometimes you have to learn to live without sex and focus on the other elements instead however difficult that can be...

[HarmlessChap]

Don't want to leave, she doesn't want me too either. She admits to being not affectionate, we have established it as a problem. We are prepared to seek some counselling as a couple but want to try and address a few things first.

We are planning date nights, we are planning doing more together but I need to deal with my temper (tantrums), which I think is probably tied into feeling miserable while all the time acting like everything is OK. Then when something breaks the surface emotions pour out as rage this is what she feels is making her feel not attracted to me. For me its a viscous circle the lack of affection causes the miserable feelings which I suppress until something needles me, I thought that I had managed to suppress the outward appearance of these events but she tells me not, she often finds me difficult to be around. I have asked her to keep a record of when and what as either I'm not doing as well as I thought at keeping it to myself or she doesn't notice I've stopped but either way the anger still builds so whether I'm externalising it or not I really should speak to someone about it.

I know I can not fix her, I know that her response may be trying to find a reason why she's gone off me, but either way I owe it to both of us to try to take that out of the equation.

I have wondered how I would feel if she asked me to "come to bed" and I agree that it would be impossible. I would feel that it was out of pity rather than desire and that would make me feel even more worthless than I currently do. Sex is great but its a lot less important to me than just a basic level of intimacy.

I don't think I'm in any immanent danger of wandering to the woods with a length of rope, but I do feel like I wish I could do a system restore to the last stable version of me.

To quote Yazz - "The only way is up" f##king well better be.

[SfaOkaySuperFurryAnimals]

You say you keep yourself fit, is she a bit fed up with how she feels about herself, I am 39 soon and to be fair I think as you approach 40 you can feel a bit jaded about your age, your future etc. It could well be that she doesn't fancy herself therefore she doesn't want to be intimate, only she can change that. Hope things improve for you

[SfaOkaySuperFurryAnimals]

figure!not future, sorry

[Theendispie]

All you can do and it looks like you are doing it now is keep an open dialogue whether that is just the two of you or through formal counselling. No it's not a great relationship to have no intimacy and I say that as someone that has to have time by myself.

I remember Yazz, your carbon dating Yourself there.

[RandomMess]

My dh and I spent some £££££ seeing a therapist regarding issues and it was worth every penny as it meant we had a safe environment to say the scary things about how we were feeling and have help to put them into perspective and someone to be accountable to do actually put into action simple things like asking how our day had REALLY been etc.

You need to ring around therapists and be honest about what you need and see who you feel you click with. Go to a session and check you both feel ok with that person, that you both "click".

Good for you that you recognise that your anger/mood is an issue and that you want to change that, admitting the issues (on both sides) is a big step.