50 shades of grey

[jamesdeandaydream]

I've been talking to a guy on tinder for a few days now. Seems really nice, normal and hasn't mentioned sex once. Until now. Very tame and not in any kind of sleazy way. If anything, I was saying worse thinns! But towards the end of the conversation he said he was 'giving me a hint' and said he's 'a bit 50 shades of grey' and then he went!

Should I run for the hills before I've even met him?!

[futureme]

D/s even. My phones autocorrecting.

[futureme]

We're exploring bdsm d/s in our married relationship. I find the whole scene thing tricky. We know a few people but we can't risk being outed for work reasons at all. We also wish to stay monogamous which seems unusual. Wed love to learn more though. There's tons of people who use aspects of bdsm or are in d/s relationships and not part of the scene...

[violettahatesoperatta]

Yeah I would agree with that, totally.

And even then.. even in an established LTR it can still happen. I know, it happened to me but many years ago now.That was a combination of inexperience and a lack of communication on both our parts.

[Offred]

I am saying unless you know someone really really well (and not just sexually) I don't think you can be being responsible with consent for BDSM.

[violettahatesoperatta]

I never said it wasn't absolutely YOUR OWN responsibility to ensure that consent is happening at all times and in all places. That if you are the bottom you give consent and the Top hears it and respects it. How did you get that I thought otherwise from what I have written? [Boggling]

I am talking about the minimsation of risk. I wonder if we are cross purposes?

If I state 'I am kinky' and JUST that I am absolutely NOT imposing my sexuality on anybody else. I am making a personal statement that is incredibly likely to be relevant in the context of online dating. In fact maybe fundamental.

[Offred]

This is like the man who told me it didn't matter if a woman they had had a ONS with was too drunk to consent or felt really awful about it the next day as long as she seemed up for it at the time, any negative after effects are her fault.

[Offred]

ODFOD. No-one should impose their sexuality in an unwanted way on someone else. If they do they are the bad guy. They do not get to shout 'discrimination' at being called a name...

[Offred]

With all due respect that is an absolute cop out in terms of your duty to ensure the consent of the people you sleep with.

That is exactly why I think it is dodgy.

You don't need the scene to have a fulfilling sex life or to do BDSM or to be happy. You are deciding to cop out of your full responsibilities to other human beings in order to get off...

Which I think is abysmal behaviour:

[violettahatesoperatta]

Oh come off it Offred! Someone who is kinky would never call a fellow kinkster perverted unless as a laugh!!

It is 'prejudiced' to call someone a pervert because of their sexual activities which happen between consenting adults. 'Pervert' is an insult.

Bit surprised at you TBH.

[Offred]

My point is that IMO there are unavoidable issues around consent with people practicing BDSM with virtual strangers and seeking BDSM sex through 'the scene'. I think that because I enjoy BDSM sex, not because I know nothing about it. I have enjoyed it since I first started having sex 15 years ago. I am not inexperienced or naive about either BDSM or 'the scene'. I think anyone who was interested in consent more than they are interested in sex would see the issues too.

[WindyMillersProbationOfficer]

I find the repetition ad nauseum of 'but the sub has all the power!' slightly daft. Sure, in a perfect world, if a person used their safe word, the other person would stop. But there's nothing to stop a safe word from being ignored. You're just as vulnerable during 'kinky' sex as you are during 'vanilla' sex, and the portrayal of the BDSM scene as some sort of egalitarian utopia of empowered subs and kindly respectful doms with Absolutely No Influence Whatsoever from nasty real life things like abuse/misogyny/racism/etc, is just daft.

I'd also like to know where the '75% of women are submissive' statistic comes from.

[violettahatesoperatta]

With the greatest of respect.. that is a bit of a simplistic and throwaway answer.

All we can do is seek to minimise harm.

If a person has got a good reputation then the chances are narrowed that you will be harmed.

An unknown man is just that; an unknown quantity. May be good, may be bad. Who the fuck knows?

That's all it's about minimising harm. A scene between two adults may go wrong. Doesn't make either bad, just that we didn't understand each other's needs.

But I will say this; it just takes one sub saying that she was abused and that mans reputation seriously comes into question. Just one.

[Offred]

As I said before unless you are trying to push BDSM or chat about it on someone you hardly know then you won't risk being called a pervert. You don't know these women know nothing about BDSM. I may call someone a name too if they started approaching me (as a virtual stranger) with their obsession over BDSM even though I love it. It is just your assumption that it was prejudice and not actually poor boundaries and respect for other people.

[violettahatesoperatta]

I'm not sure on your point there?

[Offred]

You don't need to be in the scene to understand issues of consent.

[violettahatesoperatta]

Thanks for your explanation. I appreciate it.

They are called 'perverts' by women who simply do not understand BDSM and are perhaps perceiving BDSM to be 'abuse'.. I just want to be clear though. If I had said "I met a man once who said this" that would be one thing. All I am saying is that I talk to a lot of male Doms, subs and switches and this is a song I hear time and time again.

Surely, that's got to be difficult to handle? I've NEVER been called perverted. Now that is double standards.

[Fatrascals]

I find people who are defined by their sexuality to be completely boring to be honest

Yes ^ me too. Totally agree.

[Fatrascals]

To be honest, my definition of a pervert is more associated with child abuse, child pornography, bestiality etc.

I wouldn't for a second think someone who was kinky (to whatever extent) was a pervert. Not if what they do with whomever they do it is consensual.

Each to their own, it really doesn't interest or bother me.

I was only motivated to post on here because of the bollocks comment about "'Nillas" (I could barely bring myself to type that playground term) and kink.
I (as someone who enjoys a great vanilla sex life with my husband) found it offensive to be labelled in a way which was obviously intended to be derogatory and then generalised about (incorrectly). Your statement was based on the evidence from one person's experience ....yours.

If ALL the men you meet have been told they are perverts by someone at some stage in their lives I would find this immensely worrying. I would be worried about issues with their boundaries and their knowledge of consent. I wouldn't be blaming the "Nilla's" (vom) for not being into kink. Your logic seems skewed.

[violettahatesoperatta]

Being a submissive is an incredibly vulnerable position to be in. It requires great trust on both sides. It is so easy to exploit new subs because of the naivety, their newness and their eagerness to play (sometimes referred to as 'sub frenzy).

I have personally picked up several stalkers who are not kinky but who have pretended to be kinky and have got their knickers in a twist because I refused to engage. Not pleasant.

Only last night I got a 'feeling' about one 'Dom' I was talking to with a view to meeting. I wondered over to his profile to find he had deactivated. Messages on KIK went quiet too. In my experience, a genuine Dom would always inform before pulling his profile. I suspect a married man getting his jollies.

I always make it a rule never to sext a man online or on IM's until I am in a relationship with them. Too many out there who want essentially sex chat but wont pay the £1.50 per min..

[violettahatesoperatta]

^Sex is very very important to me and I have a high sex drive. I love BDSM stuff too.

It however is not something my whole life or my relationship revolves around.^

Totally cool. It's not for everyone and I guess we all have our points where we are comfortable with.

I will kind of take issue with one point though Offred. You raised some good arguable points about the benefits/problems with being 'scene'.

However, I would argue, if you aren't in the scene then how could you ever know it's potential efficacy? What it may look like on the outside and what it may look like on the inside are not necessarily the same thing.

I would also argue that scene means 'issues with sex'. It doesn't. It means that we have a healthy interest in sex but not to the exclusion of all else.

I am in the scene for three reasons

1 - to raise awareness of prejudice against the community. It is not unknown for people to be 'outed' to bosses and family with obvious ramifications for their lives.

2 - to help and support other women.

3 - to stay in touch with friends and make new ones. I do mean 'friendship'.

I totally support anyone's wish to live their life as they see fit. I really do not see it as them and us. However, I have personally been on the receiving end of several distressing experiences from people claiming to be kinky. That was when I was new and if I'm not careful, it still could happen. That's why I choose to help others who may be in the same situation. I feel very passionate about this.

[ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight]

Called a pervert in what sense?
'Ew, get away from me you pervert, I never want to see you again'
Or 'omg you're such a perv '
Anyway just because all the kinky men you know have been called perverts doesn't mean that all 'nillas ' run screaming and call people perverts.
If I was dating a man who told me he was into fetish I'd end it because it's not my thing. I know it's not my thing, I have good friends who are on the scene, I've heard lots of stories, seen lots of pictures and I know 100% I'm not interested. That doesn't make me a nilla, or a vanilla, because my sexuality doesn't define me. I find people who are defined by their sexuality to be completely boring to be honest (yes, met a few of those too). I'm a person with vanilla sexual tastes but a lot more besides.

[Offred]

The whole thing about healthy sex is about being comfortable with not getting exactly what you want from someone else's body and actually sharing a joint experience. If people who have strong and matching obsessions happen to match up in the 'scene' then there's no harm done but that's really the best I think you can say about it. In general it is highly highly risky.

[Offred]

Sex is very very important to me and I have a high sex drive. I love BDSM stuff too.

It however is not something my whole life or my relationship revolves around.

Sex is about intimacy and sharing for me. However that objective is achieved is fine.

I think anyone who demands a particular type of sex and whose life is centered on any kind of sex scene has some issues with sex.

I don't see it any different to being obsessed with pornography. Sex or sexual practices should never become an obsession. That's when people start hurting themselves and others IMO.

[Offred]

Being called a pervert means you have imposed unwanted sexuality on someone who is not comfortable with it. It's absolutely the fault of the person doing it. You can't behave like that.

[Offred]

I'm sceptical about the ability of those in the 'scene' to manage and maintain proper boundaries. I don't see how you can do a check on a top. You can ask people who have 'played' with him how they felt but each time you practise BDSM with a virtual stranger you are at risk because you dont actually know each other.

I'm just highly highly dubious about the whole 'scene' thing...

Especially when there's that smugness about being better than people who are not into kink.

I think it's perfectly justified to sling 'pervert' at someone when they chuck their very specific sexual requirements at you whatever they are.

If you develop your sexual relationship slowly and respectfully with someone you won't get called a pervert.

I really dislike the whole 'BDSM makes me better at sex than everyone else and means I can push my sexuality on other people and then call them frigid or closed minded if they don't like it'