How would you feel is your BF's response was 'we'll see'

[Tearsoffrustration]

If you text them to say you were looking forward to having sex (not on so many words) the next time you see them

Basically he's in a huff because I'm out Friday night and Saturday night and won't see him until Sunday

[ChippyOikInTinsel]

ps, I'm not his first wife!!

[IrishDad79]

Oh chippy, chippy, chippy. Have you ever considered that maybe, maybe Irish women are happier in their marriages and don't want to divorce?! For the uk to have practically HALF its marriages hit the rocks, something has gone seriously wrong, and it's certainly not a society we should be trying to emulate.

[bobs123]

irishdad are you my ex? He's Irish, but actually a crap dad. He created scenarios in his own head too. As for the gender reversal, I would have had no problem, after his 2 lads nights out, in being invited to an evening of debauchery

[bobs123]

Oh and his first wife was Irish - she divorced him too!

[DadWasHere]

Man with same attitude would be slaughtered here.

Possibly. In a reverse gender situation like this the woman would probably be praised for not allowing herself to manipulated by a may who seemed to want to track sex and availability of it to his timetable. Unfortunately society is weighted to think men, being always up for it, should accept whatever circumstance and timetable rolls sex out. Instead of saying "we'll see" he should have taken a more traditional role, panted like a dog in heat, then the OP could derive power as being affirmed a gatekeeper of sex.

[Fratelli]

It may not be related to that. He just might not have been in the mood when you text. I don't understand why some people think it's ok for women to refuse sex but not men. Anyone has the right to refuse sex for any reason.

[ChippyOikInTinsel]

No irishdad. What magic would make irish women happier?

[ChippyOikInTinsel]

Lol bobs. She was clearly wrong to divorce him because really she was happy.....

[QuiteIrregular]

'derive power as a gatekeeper of sex'? Is that what you think women do? Or is that a critical account of the nonsense men talk about women?

I'm up for a gendered reading of absolutely anything, but I don't think the gender-altered version of this scenario gets us further. Mostly because gender-altering is mostly useful as a way of foregrounding how weirdly our society treats gender, not as an 'aha, gotcha' way of proving someone wrong.

Because it would be different if the genders were changed. Amazingly, MN commenters are able to notice that out culture treats men and women differently when it comes to sex, so men pressuring women for sex (not that that's what's happening here) is much more common, sexual coercion is more common coming from men, sexual 'reputations' are subject to a double standard, etc etc.

Inhabiting a society which puts massive pressure on women to perform their gender role to men's liking, then demanding they act as if that society is totally equal or face being accused of hypocrisy, seems rather disingenuous to me.

[RudeElf]

at yer man! 'Irish women happier in their marriages'. Stuck is the word i hear most often. 'No choice' 'made my bed...' 'Cant leave' are others. If irish divorce rates are lower than those in the uk its nothing to do with the women being happier. The men might certainly be happier mind

[ChippyOikInTinsel]

All of this has been explained to him. People in negative equity can't fund two households etc.............. more disapproval from older relatives. Knock on effect of fewer friends to have blazed that trail and made it acceptable. He doesn't hear it.

[ChippyOikInTinsel]

women the gatekeeper of sex!?!?!? I haven't had a shag or a relationship in over a year. men are the gatekeepers to sex and relationship in my world. I'm on the scrap heap at 44! And I wouldn't be alone there. My perspective not unique.

[IrishDad79]

Oh you're so right, chippy, that's the reason Irish divorce rates are so low - it's because of negative equity! How could I not see that?!

[dreamingofsnowyskies]

Did 'gatekeeper to sex' make anyone else think of Ghostbusters?!

And I would imagine that the main reason that there are so fewer divorces in Ireland would be due to the fact that it is a very religious country where divorce is frowned upon, not that all the Irish women are skipping around happily in love with all their twinkly eyed Irish brogued husbands.

[CastaDiva]

Irishdad, if you think that sexuality, cohabitation, marriage and divorce - in fact, the whole set of scenarios involving the intersection of sexuality and property (who lives where, who owns what and pays what rent/mortgage, moving in together and disentangling yourselves financially at the end of a marriage) hasn't been affected by the property bubbles and crashes of the Celtic Tiger and afterwards, I think you're very naive.

[CastaDiva]

Dreaming, the fact that Irishdad is wrong doesn't make insanely wrong generalisations about Ireland any righter. Ireland isn't "very religious'. See the thread on Ireland and divorce for actual nuanced points of view on why there is a lower divorce rate - in part due to fewer marriages, and in part due to the average age of marriage being higher.

[dreamingofsnowyskies]

I wouldn't say that my generalisation was 'insanely wrong.' Yes, I agree that it was a generalisation, but I have many Irish friends, and I have heard first hand accounts of people who have risked being ostracised from their families if they divorce their husband, due to the Catholic Church's view on divorce.
I have read the Irish thread and I was just presenting the religious side as another reason why divorce is lower there, I wasn't disagreeing with the reasons which you gave.
I feel the religious stance is - to some extent - a generation thing, and is slightly fading as the years go on, but it is still a factor.

[IrishDad79]

CastaDiva, I'm not wrong. The primary reason that Irish divorce rates are so low is because most Irish women (and most Irish men for that matter) are (shock, horror) happily married. That fact might not sit comfortably with the mn ltb agenda but, hey ho, deal with it!

[RudeElf]

The primary reason that Irish divorce rates are so low is because most Irish women (and most Irish men for that matter) are (shock, horror) happily married

Yeah? Where's the results from that survey?

[ShortandSweeter]

He may not know right now if he's gonna be up for it on Sunday? Doesn't seem unreasonable.

[Offred]

Sorry op for not even attempting to engage with your issue, it seems sorted anyway.

I just couldn't allow;

Have you ever considered that maybe, maybe Irish women are happier in their marriages and don't want to divorce?!

To go!

Irish dad have you ever considered that the toxic grip of the Roman Catholic Church which says women have to put up with awful treatment from their husbands because they are a. Not fully human like men, and b. If they divorce they will be damned to hell for all time, has something to do with the lower divorce rate?

[sadwidow28]

steakpunararemediumwelldone Wed 09-Dec-15 18:36:21

Sad I believe the question was 'how would you feel', not 'how quick can you pile on a judgement'

I certainly wasn't piling in with a judgement. I offered a view about neither party having to feel pressured into having sex, and not using sex as an appeasement strategy when the boyfriend 'is in a huff'.

[CastaDiva]

IrishDad, do by all means produce the properly-conducted research that suggests Irish woman are 'happier in their marriages'.

You seem to be taking the reasoned arguments that there are all kinds of reasons why there is a lower divorce rate - later marriage, more unmarried cohabitation, the length of time it takes to get a divorce in Ireland, those Catholics (mostly older people these days) for whom marriage is an indissoluble sacrament, making civil divorce an irrelevance, because they would not be able to remarry, property prices, negative equity meaning people are literally tied together etc etc - awfully personally. Why so chippy on this issue? And why on earth do you get to speak for all Irish women?

And for the record, I tend to approve wholeheartedly of the vast majority of the situations where Mumsnetters agree that a poster should seriously consider ending her relationship. These are overwhelmingly either situations of physical, financial or psychological abuse, repeated infidelity, or - in a new relationship - full of indications that the relationship is likely to be unequal and unhappy for the woman. In many cases the poster had put up with an appalling situation for some time, and is too cowed and/or brainwashed to leave or self-esteem too battered to think she is worth more than the minimum.

Offred, that isn't actually the case. I am an atheist who could not be more critical of the Catholic church, but divorce doesn't condemn you to hell by any means from a Catholic hierarchy pov - it simply means you can't remarry in a Catholic church, and that any subsequent civil marriage isn't recognised by the church, unless you also get an annulment. It's by no means a liberal position - if you are a Catholic who marries in a Catholic church first time around, divorces, and remarries in a civil marriage, you are not supposed to take communion until you have gone to confession and promised not to have sex with your new spouse! - but it's hardly hellfire. You've committed no sin if you were divorced against your will.

On other issues such as contraception and abortion, I would fully agree with you.