wwyd? (NC with parents)

[sliceofsoup]

I have posted about the situation with my parents before. The back story may or may not be relevant, but it is too much to go into here, though I will if I need to.

Over the summer things deteriorated badly when I basically stood up to them and changed some arrangements concerning the DCs, which culminated in a ceasing of all contact in August. This was my mums choice at the time, but I was prepared for it and I decided to step away and let the situation calm a bit, and also, not back down, which is what I have always done in the past.

So Sept and Oct passed, and we were having a Halloween party. I invited my parents and some other members of the family. The other members came, but my parents didn't acknowledge any of my contact attempts. They wouldn't answer the phone and didn't reply to several texts. The party came and went and they didn't come.

I should add at this point that the DCs (DD1 in particular) are missing them terribly.

So DD2's birthday is this weekend, and today a card has dropped through the door. I haven't opened it but I know its my mums writing.

I am incensed tbh. I grew up with this shit, literally. Cards and presents dropping through from relatives and grandparents that I longed to see but couldn't. I really don't want my DCs going through the same. DD2 is too young to know (3) but DD1 absolutely will care if the same happens at her birthday, and tbh it will do more harm than good.

Not only that, but how dare she? How fucking dare she? She can't have it both ways. SHE chose to stop contact, she chose to not come to the party, she is the one doing this, and then she sends a fucking card like it is ME keeping her away. She HATED it every time it happened when I was a child, and my feelings were never even NOTICED because all we heard about was how angry and hurt it made her. So why is she doing the same to me and my DCs now?

So WWYD? Respond? Ignore? Give the card to DD2 and have DD1 ask why they are sending cards but didn't come to the party? Don't give DD2 the card? I just don't know.

Do I reach out again and invite them round for dinner?

I am stumped. I just haven't a clue where to go from here.

[sliceofsoup]

Thanks for replying everyone.

Shadows that sounds really horrible, and I am so sad that your DD was treated so badly as well.

The similarities to my situation are uncanny. I am waiting on an assessment for my DD1 for Aspergers, and last year when it was first mentioned by the school my mum told me the teacher was "talking shit" and that there was nothing wrong with DD1. She shouted over me and dismissed my concerns. I know my child better than she does, and I know there is a problem.

I really think that I have Aspergers, and so much stuff that I struggled with as a child, and even now as an adult, makes sense when I read about Aspergers in girls and women. I wonder if my mum sees me wanting to fight for support for my DD as some sort of comment on her crap parenting...if that is the case she can just take every aspect of my parenting as a comment on how shit hers was, because I am everything she wasn't. :o

She is competitive and hates to think that I would be better than her at anything.

I had been seeing a counsellor, but I wasn't feeling anything regarding this situation, and it all appeared to be under control. Since I have stopped going I think things have shifted in me. The counsellor kept telling me to grieve for the parents I should have had, and I know why, but I couldn't feel it. I couldn't feel the loss. I was just numb.

I think Christmas is the catalyst for me beginning to grieve. I am feeling angry, and I am feeling a loss. But I also feel hope, and I feel positive that this is a good thing in the long term. Mostly my feelings are jumbled up, and I am contemplating going back to the counsellor in the New Year.

Sorry, I am rambling, its just good to get the thoughts out. :)

[LivingInTheShadows]

I had something similar with my 'mother'. She had cut me off for 6 months after hanging up on me on the phone when she accused me of being a crap mother when I was looking for support as my DS was being assessed for ASD, 'there's nothing wrong with DS, it's you' etc! I then shouted asked her where did she think I had learnt my parenting from? (I am certainly not the mother she was.) A week later she sent every photograph of me and the DCs, every card we'd sent her, and every picture my DCs had drawn for her, back to me in a big parcel with no note. The rest of the family all pulled back saying they would not get involved but their loyalty lay with my mother.

She asked for a meeting after the 6 months in which I stupidly believed we would sort things out but she demanded to see the DCs and said she wanted nothing more to do with me. She had not been interested in the DCs for the proceeding 6 months when DS3 had a birthday or when the DSs started secondary school. When I told her that she could not have a relationship with them without me in it and I would not allow contact until she helped me resolve a lot of childhood stuff that had happened (like preventing contact with my bio father, scapegoating me because of him and the sexual abuse by a sibling), she flounced calling me 'disgusting'. A few months later, she sent DD (aged 16 then) a card with a cheque saying that she would always be her 'grandmother'. DD got to it before I could and sent a text to say thank you and she replied that she would never forget her. I was incensed and sent her a message telling her not to contact my children again until she faced up to me.

There was no further contact until last year, despite me trying several times, when DD by now 18 decided that she wanted to send Christmas cards to my family. Not one of them responded (she gave her mobile no). She was devastated as she had had them in her life for a long time. I had told her to expect that but even I didn't think they would do that to her.

Funnily enough my mother also cut off contact with her own family and my father/father's family too when she married my stepfather, similar to your mother OP, so we never saw grandparents/aunts/uncles/cousins growing up either. I was also born into a massive family. I desperately did not want history to repeat itself for my DC but I will not allow her to keep control over me by using them.

[TiredAndBeaten]

Just wanted to show solidarity too as I'm going through something very, very similar with my toxic parents. I'm expecting more drama over Christmas and when my new baby is born next year. We are currently NC after some truly awful behaviour in September. It does get easier, but the disappointment is still here. Your DDs have a great mother with their best interests at heart. Just like you deserved.

[Joysmum]

My mum protected me from her mum's toxicity.

I've never regretted it and she knows she did the right thing and just regrets that her mum couldn't have been normal enough to take the chance on.

[poorincashrichinlove]

sliceofsoup I know it's hard not to keep going over things in your head, but it's more important to remind yourself constantly of the freedom you now have from the abuse you've suffered. Things may work out for you and your family in time, but perhaps when you're feeling stronger and on your terms

[sliceofsoup]

Sorry to hear than poorincashrichinlove. It really is shitty, and this time of year just makes it worse, doesn't it.

Christmas when I was small was really the only time of year I have good memories from.

I am really struggling today. The second card arrived. I just keep going over it all in my head. She is blaming me for not seeing the DCs, when it is her toxic behaviour that is to blame.

I used to wonder how I got into an abusive relationship in my late teens. My parents were still together and there had never been DV at home. But now I can see that my ex's behaviour is so similar to my mums. The gaslighting, refusal to accept blame or responsibility, turning everything on me.

Its really sad that a mother could treat their child in this way.

[poorincashrichinlove]

I'm going through a similar situation OP and posted about my toxic DM in the summer. My eldest DC misses her but life is more straightforward without her shit infecting it. It's hard though, especially at this time of year

[sliceofsoup]

Thanks. Yes, I agree completely.

DD1 is the most settled and content that she has ever been, and me and her are closer than ever. Her behaviour has completely changed since she hasn't been seeing them. I think that speaks volumes tbh.

We knew this was coming, but it actually being in front of my eyes is another thing entirely.

My mum has always been extremely selfish, and this is just another thing that shows she only thinks of herself. Her missing my DD1 is more important than how my 6 yo feels. Her feelings have always come before everyone else's.

[candykane25]

Just thread the thread.
Saying miss you to a 6yo in this situation is just low and immature and she's foisting her agenda on a child instead of thinking what is best for the child.
You haven't created this situation.
It's very card because reading the card will be hurtful for your daughter, not getting anything is also hurtful. All you can do is talk to your daughter and reassure her she is loved and she is a good girl and everyone loves her very much.

[sliceofsoup]

So, one Christmas card fell through the door this morning. For the eldest. I assume there will be another one tomorrow for the youngest.

I snapped and messaged her and told her to stop sending cards, that I wasn't giving them to the DDs and if she wanted to wish them happy christmas she knows where we live. I said she wouldn't be having a relationship with my children if she wasn't having one with me.

She has read the message, but hasn't replied. I know that she won't.

The card says miss you and love you etc. She really is a piece of fucking work. What a martyr!!! Trying to make out to a SIX YEAR OLD that I am stopping her seeing them. My DD1 knows the bloody truth.

[Helloitsme15]

“All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.”
Just to repeat - you are doing the right thing. Stay strong. Walk your own path.

[sliceofsoup]

No she hasn't bonded with DD2 but that was no one's doing except hers. Plus she has the track record of the favouritism between me and my brother.

You are right, I am not sure. I have been NC with them before and always caved because I believed her rhetoric that it was all my fault and that led me to back down and tow the line. But this time SHE made the move to go NC, and while it is upsetting, I am no where near as upset as I thought I would be.

I have never been respected in my own right. I am her daughter, for her to treat as she sees fit. For her to punish, still, at 28, even now I am a parent and a wife. I am not respected as a parent, or as my own person.

DD2 is harder to manage than DD1, but we didn't expect her to have DD2 every time she had DD1. The favouritism showed through in other ways, and she would even go as far as to say derogatory things about DD2.

There have been days where she walked into our house, refused to sit down, stood in the centre of the room and talked AT me about what was going on with her. Talked OVER my father while he tried to have a chat with his grandkids and my DH. She didn't ask how I was, how we were, what was new with us. Didn't acknowledge DH or DD2 whatsoever. And once she had finished speaking she just said time to go, and left. That happened several times.

The thing with her is that most of the things she does are just skirting around the edge of shitty behaviour, so they can be seen differently. But that just means she can easily twist them in her favour. But as DH said, the birthday card is "loaded". To an outsider it is a nice gesture. To the people who know, it is a tactic in her toxic game.

She is not a reasonable or rational person, and I think I have to give up trying to find a reasonable or rational explanation for the way she has treated me.

So I can see what you mean, but responding to your post just makes me see how bad this has got. :(

[OhBeloved]

Devil's advocate here and hard. Hat on.

As I've rtft i was thinking that one could interprete badgm's actions differently :
You had a row following an attempt to change an arrangement - then issued 3 invitations - she could've thought more cooling off time was needed.

She favours elder dgd - younger is only 3 and therefore still very hard work I imagine - does badgm find dd1 much easier? Has badgm not bonded with dd2? Do you know why she favours dd1? Is there another reason that could fit other than a manipulation strategy?

She has sent a card without responding to your invites - could that be because she thinks your falling out shouldn't affect dds?

And referred to dd1 in dd2's card - just so she doesn't feel left out?

I wanted to give an alternative pov because you don't sound too sure at all about nc and it's a huge irrevocable step to take if you are not absolutely sure that you are doing the best thing for yourself and your family.

If you are not sure then I suppose the best option may be to do nothing - which might be the best course of (in)action anyway.

[sliceofsoup]

You summed it up perfectly 665.

And yes Rabbit I had said to DH earlier that this card wasn't about DD2. It was setting the scene for them to be able to send DD1 a card on her birthday and not be accused of favouring her.

That was before I opened it. But your last sentence has hit the nail on the head.

[RunRabbitRunRabbit]

That's the right attitude. You should be angry with her. It is her not you that fucks things up.

She'll never stop playing favourites. Your 3 year old can't even have the sentiment of a card without it being given to her older sister.

[665TheNeighbourOfTheBeast]

while still expecting to have a relationship with DD1. Obviously that wasn't acceptable and couldn't continue.

I hope that after the first few times I will get used to it and it won't be so bad.

If I react to this in any way, it will give further ammunition to her twisted logic that I am the root cause of all of life's woes. However much I want to react, on reflection I think its best if I just stay silent.

She was not a good parent to you
and would now like you to abnegate yourself so that she can bypass you and have a relationship with just one of your children ?
does that sum it up?

She ignored your invitation - but has it in her head that she doesn’t need to go through you to have a relationship with them........sigh...

Either you choose to protect your children from someone who is incapable of having a healthy adult relationship with their own child because she is incapable of doing so
or
You protect your children from someone who is incapable of having a healthy adult relationship with their own child, because she chooses not to.

Fuck off indeed

[sliceofsoup]

DH is home, and stupidly I opened the card. We had agreed that we are going to stay silent and ignore, but if there was money in it we would put it into DD2s savings account.

Wish I hadn't fucking done that.

The card is to our 3 year old, but tagged on the bottom is a message to DD1 saying "X, love you too xxx"

FUCK OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Stupid bitch doesn't know the meaning of the fucking word.

[Helloitsme15]

Just another point, following on from Atilla's post - when we went NC I did sit the DC down and explain to them in very simple terms why they would not be seeing my dad again. Up until that time I had not told them anything about what had been happening, but once we went NC we had to explain why.
The DC were fine - children understand at an early age that somethings are wrong. They have grown up healthy and happy without him.

[Helloitsme15]

I have been NC with my dad for 9 years - he still sends birthday and Xmas cards which just go straight in the bin.
I told the DC when they were older and asked if they wanted them but they both said no.
Simples.

[OnceAMeerNotAlwaysAMeer]

definitely right up there with the poisonous toadstools, your mum. It does sound like you're making the right decision soup. Best of luck.

[sliceofsoup]

Mostly I'd be worried that your mother will play the 'be present/be absent' game every time she's cross with you, along with her general toxicity.

This is exactly what she does, and in recent years continued to do this to me, while still expecting to have a relationship with DD1. Obviously that wasn't acceptable and couldn't continue.

I hope that after the first few times I will get used to it and it won't be so bad.

If I react to this in any way, it will give further ammunition to her twisted logic that I am the root cause of all of life's woes. However much I want to react, on reflection I think its best if I just stay silent.

[OnceAMeerNotAlwaysAMeer]

I understand, sliceofsoup

I have spent my life being pulled every which way, but nothing I did or didn't do was ever good enough, and as if that hadn't damaged me, now I have been shunned again.... I can't face the cards dropping through the door on every happy occasion.

Regarding how much you tell your daughter, suggest you speak to your counsellor if you can. There is a balance in the healthy middle between being told nothing, and being told everything. You are talking to your child in order to inform and extend their understanding, which is much better than simply never seeing GPS again. You aren't using her as a dumping ground. This is for HER benefit not yours.

Mostly I'd be worried that your mother will play the 'be present/be absent' game every time she's cross with you, along with her general toxicity. That would be dreadful for your daughter.

About the cards dropping through the door - the harassment letter would stop that, if it didn't you do indeed go to the police. I understand the dread of the cards and how your heart sinks or goes Thump when you see that handwriting. If it's any consolation, if you don't do the harassment thing, then it does rather influence occasions but overall, it gets easier iwth the years and after the first 2-3 times it doesn't spoil the whole celebration.

[sliceofsoup]

I would be giving the same advice, and have done in the past. I do agree with you.

It is just really really hard.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Its not you, its them.

You have to grieve for the relationship you should have had with your parents rather than the one you got. There is really no future left in any relationship with your parents. They are not going to play nice or be nice.

Ignore the cards and shred them, these will not have any power if you do that.

Many people who side with toxic people are flying monkeys and are acting in their own self interest rather than yours. They have their own reasons for wanting you to still play your role in the overall dysfunction and have been manipulated further to believe in the lies peddled by the toxic people.

If all your family of origin are toxic then it is really best to keep the hell away from all of them. It will do you no good at all to be at all dragged back in. You would not have tolerated any of this from a friend, I argue that family are no different.