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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

Is spying ever ok?

59 replies

YouLostMeThere · 07/10/2015 12:29

So, my (?D)H has several times now gone into my email accounts, checked my internet history, checked through my Amazon account. And he's only admitted it when I've worked out there is no other way he could have got information and confronted him, so not sure how much he has done it historically either. As far as I know he hasn't looked at my phone (nothing exciting on there btw) although he's very interested in who I'm texting and reacts to the 'ping' before I do. Is checking up on your other half ever ok? I haven't got anything to hide, but it has caused several rows because I feel invaded and that he doesn't respect my boundaries. He also manages to get and grab hold of the wrong end of the stick and WILL NOT let go! What do people think?? I don't know if I'm being over sensitive or if this is normal or what....

OP posts:

acatcalledjohn · 07/10/2015 15:23

Bit delayed, but sorry you suffered all of that Goldie. It's amazing how things can creep up on you until you feel you're in too deep.

LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 07/10/2015 15:26

I am always slightly amazed at the posters being told to snoop.

I have never cheated on anyone, but if someone looked through my phone, it would be a total deal breaker.

Emilyjane101 · 07/10/2015 15:27

In your opinion acatcalledjohn there is no right or wrong in this situation, just people's opinion. Mumsnet is too full of people thinking they hold the rule book for life in their hand.

No one cannot dictate what is 'normal', threads like this are a bit pointless if everyone agrees.

I think looking, whatever your motivation (family history, insecurities etc). Is fine if you don't do it often, and don't let it effect your relationship. In the grand scheme of things what does looking through someones phone for 2 minutes actually do in a relationship? What is the damage? If you don't argue about cheating/insecurities or are controlling or jealous, and you do that to just put your mind at rest, it really makes no difference.

MajesticWhine · 07/10/2015 15:30

I admit to having snooped. It was due to a break down in trust after discovering an affair. There are circumstances where snooping seems justified but I think it's wrong to do it routinely though.

LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 07/10/2015 15:39

Imo the damage is not trusting someone, to the extent that you violate their privacy.

Like I said, I have never cheated on anyone, but my phone is private, not because it contains anything remotely incriminating, just because it is my property, and contains personal stuff.

If I had a partner who was at the point of feeling they had to behave like that, then the relationship is dead, as far as I am concerned. I would hope they would walk away if they didn't trust me. But if they didn't, then I certainly would walk away.

LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 07/10/2015 15:42

And the thing about "he must be having an affair because he suspects you" - I notice how that isn't said to the posters who come on here to say they suspect their partner. Often, the first thing that they are asked is if they have had a look at his phone.

A breakdown in trust is a terrible thing, whether it is genuine or suspected.

acatcalledjohn · 07/10/2015 16:12

The OPs H is repeatedly snooping despite her objections and despite repeatedly finding nothing.

Thing is, we sometimes have private conversations with friends and family members by text or email. I'd be rather upset if I had a private discussion with a friend shared without consent.

I am far from proud about having snooped in the past. It was once, my suspicions were confirmed. However, unless I had very clear suspicions, I would NOT do it again.

Technically it's only ok if your partner gives you permission.

If one feels the need to check regularly then I'd argue they'd have to work on fixing their trust issues, not giving in to their insecurities. It will only exacerbate the insecurities. I live with an anxiety sufferer and I can guarantee giving in to the thoughts is the worst thing they can do.

Original poster

YouLostMeThere · 07/10/2015 16:17

I never used to have a problem with the idea that he could look through my things, I have nothing to hide and the only conclusions he can come to are that either I'm trustworthy and honest and committed to the relationship, or the wrong ones. But that's the problem, he Does come to the wrong conclusions, and then he persists and persists and will not let it go. It was only after I found out that he had been spying and had jumped to several incorrect conclusions that I started to feel invaded and pestered. It is just like having a large, loud, needy toddler follow you into the shower, the loo etc. no privacy. BUT part of the reason I never worried about him snooping was that I trusted him, I thought he trusted me and it never occurred to me that he would do it or think it was justifiable.
Yes, I agree, I think there might be certain mental health issues that need to be addressed,certainly anger and anxiety, but it is difficult to get him to face this.

OP posts:

Elendon · 07/10/2015 16:30

I fully trusted my ex. More fool me. And I was left the sole holder of the child who has disabilities; he moved 200 miles away. His 'current partner' supports him financially. He cut me off and fled, because he knew I was trusting.

Never again.

Lweji · 07/10/2015 16:33

he Does come to the wrong conclusions, and then he persists and persists and will not let it go.

Yes, I'd say his anger and anxiety are the worrying parts there.

It reminds me of my exH, who ended up committing DV.

Original poster

YouLostMeThere · 07/10/2015 16:35

Elendon that's horrid, poor you. Hope you're coping.

OP posts:

Original poster

YouLostMeThere · 07/10/2015 16:37

Lweji. DV?

OP posts:

SacredHeart · 07/10/2015 16:46

Total deal breaker for me. If you can't trust someone, what's the point of the relationship?

I have never cheated but have been cheated on twice but I still never snooped on partners, I just talked it out and dealt with being shat on. I would say both cheaters constantly checked up on me where I was, what I was doing and my emails etc..so I think it can Be a sign of a guilty conscience as they project their guilt onto the other.

Elendon · 07/10/2015 16:48

YouLostme

Well, I put my heart and soul into my third child, because he needed it.

And, he's doing GCSEs now, and coping well - he's a lovely 14 year old lad. We who were abandoned all agree, me, him and his two older sisters as well; we all deserve a .

thegreysheep · 07/10/2015 16:57

"I feel invaded and that he doesn't respect my boundaries.... He also manages to get and grab hold of the wrong end of the stick and WILL NOT let go!"

OP, not respecting your boundaries is not good, and the not letting things go sounds exhausting. Maybe his unreasonable behaviour s rearing it's head again like it did for his EX?

A friend of mine is currently dealing with a lot of jealousy of exes from her new partner - she literally can't do a thing right sometimes and gets accused of all sorts. It's 100% his issue and he's insecure as he feels she's going to leave him. She really loves him but ironically she probably WILL end up leaving him due to his behaviour - self-fulfilling prophesy on his part.

Original poster

YouLostMeThere · 07/10/2015 17:01

thegreysheep yes! Self-fulfilling prophecy - I have used those exact words. He thought I was threatening him! Grr.

OP posts:

MatrixReloaded · 07/10/2015 21:04

I lived with this sort of thing and I really understand how you feel. Do you have access to his phone , email ? I would check what he's up to as cheaters often project like this.

After that I would lock him out of all communication and I wouldn't entertain any discussion about infidelity on your part. If he really thought you were he would leave.

Lweji · 07/10/2015 21:08

Sorry.
Domestic violence.

Joysmum · 07/10/2015 21:27

I'm all for snooping, my DH would agree too despite the one being snooped in.

If I hadn't snooped in those early ears I never could have trusted in our relationship because of my history.

Not trusting in the relationship is not the same as not trusting him. I never trusted in myself not to fuck up and push him away.

I've not snooped in donkeys years now and I fully trust in his live for me even though I don't understand how it can be.

If I'd not snooped we'd not be 22 years into a wonderful relationship and my irrational fears would have destroyed us. We're both very happy and if that meant the snooping was needed to learn to trust again then so be it. I'd rather never have been paranoid enough to feel compelled to but it was that or never reach a state of trust.

Whilst I fully appreciate others won't agree, the persons feeling that matter is my DH and he's just glad I was finally able to commit.

Garrick · 07/10/2015 22:24

I agree with Emilyjane and her Mr. There is no fully right or wrong answer to "Is it OK to snoop?" because everything depends on what else is going on, the balance of power in the relationship, and past histories. When you're both relaxed about sharing information, that's the only time you know you've got a good balance of trust - because it's impossible to snoop where nothing is hidden.

I do want things to work, and I don't want to break up a family and a a marriage.

Was this the marriage you envisaged? Did you plan to raise a family in an atmosphere of blame and counter-attack, escalating aggression and tensions? Be careful about what you're protecting here.

Emilyjane101 · 11/10/2015 21:47

Yes I can totally relate to that joysmum by having a look on my DHs phone more regularly at the beginning I now trust him so much more. And now if I have a look once a month there is nothing on there that is interesting it makes me feel better. But it works both ways, we know the pass codes to each other's phones, which automatically logs on to Facebook/Twitter/whatssap etc and just by having all that open and happily leaving it for the other person to look makes you trust them more. If my DH started taking his phone with him to the loo etc I would already know something is up......

garrick that is spot on "its impossible to snoop where nothing is hidden"

I think having very 'private things' isn't entirely honest in itself, would it be strange if you had a private drawer your other half wasn't ever allowed to look in and if they did it would be a deal breaker??

if you would be offended if the person you love looked through your phone I would think that a bit strange in itself. What's so private about a phone? Texts to your friends, music, photos of your kids, calls to the dentist, what is on there that is so private?

Original poster

YouLostMeThere · 12/10/2015 09:44

I think the problem is not about secrecy, I have nothing to hide. The real problem is not being allowed any boundaries, not being allowed any personal privacy, and then being persistently accused of things I'm not doing, despite the spying turning up nothing to justify the accusations. That would drive anyone nuts wouldn't it? If you snooped once, and there was nothing to justify your suspicion, would you then continue snooping or would you stop? Where is the trust and respect in snooping?

OP posts:

Joysmum · 12/10/2015 09:59

There was ant any trust in snooping but that lack of trust for me was in my worthiness to hold anyone, my lack of trust in thinking I was worth enough to anyone.

Mind you in my case case never a used my DH of anything. My snooping g was a deep seated fear, not a suspicion.

I did stop when I realised that he did think the world of me and it was my own judgement I couldn't trust, not him.

This all feels like so long ago to me, it was over20 years ago at the start of my relationship after a previous poor relationship completely fucked me up.

It got me to the stage where I could trust and fully commit. I'd never have been able to do that otherwise. Likewise I didn't keep these fears a secret, we'd always talked fully about the fears.

moopymoodle · 12/10/2015 10:22

No its not acceptable. I found my ex cheating on me constantly, next relationship I snooped on my now DH. I wasnt convinced he had done anything wrong but couldn't help thr urge to snoop. Over the course of 2 years I read his emails about 5 times, his phone 3 times, would often find receipts and check them, once I even checked the collar of his work shirt for lipstick!!!

I told my DH what I had done everytime, as it wasn't healthy and I knew that. It all blew up one night and we talked and since then I've never had the urge to look or fear he might cheat. What really resonated with me as I read your post was when you said no matter what you do to convince him it's like he basically doesn't hear it. That was me!! I felt like every word was a lie and he would happily lie, sort of projecting my past experiences onto him.

IMO he has an unrealistic expectation of what a relationship should be like, expecting it to still be like the honeymoon stage and you to be crazy about him. I had that expectation too and it can completely shatter a relationship.

He needs to be honest with you about his fears and get help, it's not fair on you to put up with it and until he realises that the paranoid thoughts he has that drives the obsessive behaviour isn't rational he won't challenge them and stop.

We have a brilliant relationship now, I will never snoop again as I trust my DH completely and I recognise it was my problem not his. Good luck OP

goldierocks · 12/10/2015 10:22

Hi again OP.....

"The real problem is not being allowed any boundaries, not being allowed any personal privacy, and then being persistently accused of things I'm not doing, despite the spying turning up nothing to justify the accusations."

That was EXACTLY my situation. When my ex snooped and found nothing (because there was never anything to find) he escalated his snooping. In the end he became dangerous.

He simply would not believe there was nothing to find...he convinced himself he was not looking hard enough. I had to hand over my phone and be accompanied to the toilet before it dawned on me that I was not in a normal relationship anymore. Of course he claimed he only did it because he loved me - that is the sort of love I am 100% happier without.

Please be careful - nothing you have said so far makes me think that your DH sees what he is doing to you is wrong, or why he should stop. It is truly suffocating and no way to live.

Take care

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