Is spying ever ok?

[YouLostMeThere]

So, my (?D)H has several times now gone into my email accounts, checked my internet history, checked through my Amazon account. And he's only admitted it when I've worked out there is no other way he could have got information and confronted him, so not sure how much he has done it historically either. As far as I know he hasn't looked at my phone (nothing exciting on there btw) although he's very interested in who I'm texting and reacts to the 'ping' before I do. Is checking up on your other half ever ok? I haven't got anything to hide, but it has caused several rows because I feel invaded and that he doesn't respect my boundaries. He also manages to get and grab hold of the wrong end of the stick and WILL NOT let go! What do people think?? I don't know if I'm being over sensitive or if this is normal or what....

[GoodnightDarthVader]

This amount of jealousy and snooping with no prior history of infidelity in this relationship is NEVER normal or ok. Get out, OP.

[Garrick]

I disagree in principle, moopy. Unless you know you have a history of acting out irrational fears, then a change in your feelings around something does indicate a problem. That problem is going to be along the lines of what your feelings say it is - but your feelings don't know exactly.

Our unconscious minds are constantly processing data that never reaches consciousness: the growing "gut feel" is where the interface happens; the unconscious processor's asking your conscious to provide more relevant input. Sure you can run down a lot of blind alleys, or simply be a crap detective like me, but there's very likely to be a real issue.

These days I'll go as far as to say that feeling is actually enough to end a relationship. We don't work like that, though, so we feel compelled to seek the input.

I'm not talking specifically about Lost's husband here. His 'processor' seems to have a serious malfunction. No amount of common sense is going to fix that, regrettably.

[moopymoodle]

Lovespeace that's rather insulting to the op. She's said she's not doing anything dodgy, my DH wasn't either. Sometimes yes if you have reason to suspect then checking is one way of closure, but sometimes these hunches are pure paranoia and can destroy relationships. I hate how people say of we follow our gut or hunch we are usually right... not always!

[LovesPeace]

I spent more than a decade with my ex and never snooped.

Then, things changed and I knew he was lying. I checked his computer (first time ever) and found pictures of him having sex, naked women, you name it.
It helped me know for sure he was a lying cheating git, and to kick him out unaffected by his piteous whining.

Now I'm with someone else, I don't make a habit of checking up on him - haven't yet, anyway. If his behaviour changed or I found anything dodgy, I would check up again.

I think all these people saying 'oh how, awful, what a breach of trust!' either are misogynistic at their core (women should be adoring, trusting people) while men should get to slip their dicks into other women. Their choice in their lives. NOT their choice in MY life.

In this case OP - I'd say either you are doing something dodgy, or he is and is trying to catch you at fault too.

[Garrick]

The real problem is not being allowed any boundaries, not being allowed any personal privacy, and then being persistently accused of things I'm not doing

I really understand this, too - despite my history of snooping!

I tried checking up on XH (I wasn't very good at it) because he was abnormally secretive - and, as people later told me, was cheating. It made him very angry and he gave me all the stuff about lack of trust destroying love. In fact he gave it as my unreasonable behaviour when we divorced. That's another story.

Simultaneously, he was reading my diary and using my private thoughts against me. He followed me and had me followed. I'm the opposite of secretive but his behaviours were more of a boundary breach, in my view, than my clumsy efforts to find out who I was living with.

When postcards arrived for him, I wouldn't read the message unless he asked me to. He found it impossible to believe anybody respected basic privacy that way, let alone the wife he had cast as a possessive lunatic.

As you can see, this was a hideously dysfunctional relationship. I hope you can also see why I say there's no black-and-white answer to your title question.

As you post a little more, a picture is emerging of someone with a compulsion to find secrets where there are none. If you can ever be satisfied that he's given up - or is restricting his activities to areas you find tolerable - then there may be a future for you yet. I'm sorry to say I'm not all that optimistic. It may be that your personal level of privacy is more than he can comfortably accept, or that his level of paranoia is more than you can.

[moopymoodle]

He will feel anxiety at first as through his compulsion to check he has convinced his bodies fight or flight response to activate at every doubt. I don't want to go all technical about it but that's what basically happens.

Fear is activated due to past hurt or unrealistic expectations of the relationship, the paranoid partner doesn't recognise and label it as fear as they don't understand, they act on the fear through checking and it becomes a compulsion to either silence the fear or an obsession to validate it.

It's a difficult thing to grasp as sometimes people are upto no good, you read about it on mumsnet all the time, you hear about it in other people's relationships and you see it in the media no end. If your DH keeps up with not giving into the irrational fears, his adrenalin levels should start to taper off and as the old saying goes he will "see with clear eyes rather then fear eyes". Well that's how it happened for me aftwr lots of chats with my DH and some self help online. I now feel rather ashamed of how wrapped up in things I was and how I made my DH feel.

[YouLostMeThere]

Thanks guys goldierocks wannaBe Moopymoddle you've totally expressed how I feel. It is soooo suffocating, and upsetting knowing that the person you love really doesn't trust you. And it kills love, and I've told him this. He says he has realised that what he is doing is wrong and that he is trying to change. He has been suffering really bad anxiety in the last few days because he is trying to alter the habits of years. I respect him for trying, but I am going to take a lot of convincing before I can trust him again (and I have told him so).

[moopymoodle]

I agree with WannaBe. If your snooping it's because you don't fully trust. Using snooping so you can trust is a compulsion and actually eliminates trust. To trust Is to put faith in the other person and the relationship that all is well and they wouldn't hurt you. If you snoop before you can come to that conclusion then your only temporarily silencing doubts to put your mind at rest.

Trust is hard at first if your anxious, but choosing to trust leads to a calm state of mind and relationship. Choosing to snoop fuels the doubt and the fear grows, we then sabotage the relationship anyway in most cases.

I've nothing to hide yet I'd hate my DH snooping through my phone, certain texts to friends and posts on mumsnet are personal to me and I'd be furious if he read them. He deserves to be respected and have his private life too.

[wannaBe]

IMO people who feel that snooping is A, perfectly justified and B, that the person being checked on has no need to be upset if they have nothing to hide are spectacularly missing the point.


It's not about the fact that you have nothing to hide that is the problem, the problem is that if someone else feels the need to go and check up on your texts/emails etc they clearly don't believe that you have nothing to hide, in which case your relationship is lacking in trust.

My dp can look at my phone whenever he wants. He has access to the passcode etc, similarly yesterday he was using my laptop and wanted to check his own emails so he had to log out of my email account to log into his. i am certain that when I go on the laptop in a bit it will still be logged into his email account. It would take me a matter of minutes to do a quick check of his emails before I log him out again but why on earth would I want to do that? Similarly if I found him looking through my phone I would want to know why he felt the need to.

It's not about wanting to keep things private, it's about the right to not be under constant scrutiny and mistrust. Anyone who feels the need to look through their partner's phone every few months has trust issues. And incidentally it's a bit of a false security, because if your partner knows you look through their phone then chances are that if they're going to cheat they'll just buy a new phone you don't have access to.

[goldierocks]

Hi again OP.....

"The real problem is not being allowed any boundaries, not being allowed any personal privacy, and then being persistently accused of things I'm not doing, despite the spying turning up nothing to justify the accusations."

That was EXACTLY my situation. When my ex snooped and found nothing (because there was never anything to find) he escalated his snooping. In the end he became dangerous.

He simply would not believe there was nothing to find...he convinced himself he was not looking hard enough. I had to hand over my phone and be accompanied to the toilet before it dawned on me that I was not in a normal relationship anymore. Of course he claimed he only did it because he loved me - that is the sort of love I am 100% happier without.

Please be careful - nothing you have said so far makes me think that your DH sees what he is doing to you is wrong, or why he should stop. It is truly suffocating and no way to live.

Take care

[moopymoodle]

No its not acceptable. I found my ex cheating on me constantly, next relationship I snooped on my now DH. I wasnt convinced he had done anything wrong but couldn't help thr urge to snoop. Over the course of 2 years I read his emails about 5 times, his phone 3 times, would often find receipts and check them, once I even checked the collar of his work shirt for lipstick!!!

I told my DH what I had done everytime, as it wasn't healthy and I knew that. It all blew up one night and we talked and since then I've never had the urge to look or fear he might cheat. What really resonated with me as I read your post was when you said no matter what you do to convince him it's like he basically doesn't hear it. That was me!! I felt like every word was a lie and he would happily lie, sort of projecting my past experiences onto him.

IMO he has an unrealistic expectation of what a relationship should be like, expecting it to still be like the honeymoon stage and you to be crazy about him. I had that expectation too and it can completely shatter a relationship.

He needs to be honest with you about his fears and get help, it's not fair on you to put up with it and until he realises that the paranoid thoughts he has that drives the obsessive behaviour isn't rational he won't challenge them and stop.

We have a brilliant relationship now, I will never snoop again as I trust my DH completely and I recognise it was my problem not his. Good luck OP

[Joysmum]

There was ant any trust in snooping but that lack of trust for me was in my worthiness to hold anyone, my lack of trust in thinking I was worth enough to anyone.

Mind you in my case case never a used my DH of anything. My snooping g was a deep seated fear, not a suspicion.

I did stop when I realised that he did think the world of me and it was my own judgement I couldn't trust, not him.

This all feels like so long ago to me, it was over20 years ago at the start of my relationship after a previous poor relationship completely fucked me up.

It got me to the stage where I could trust and fully commit. I'd never have been able to do that otherwise. Likewise I didn't keep these fears a secret, we'd always talked fully about the fears.

[YouLostMeThere]

I think the problem is not about secrecy, I have nothing to hide. The real problem is not being allowed any boundaries, not being allowed any personal privacy, and then being persistently accused of things I'm not doing, despite the spying turning up nothing to justify the accusations. That would drive anyone nuts wouldn't it? If you snooped once, and there was nothing to justify your suspicion, would you then continue snooping or would you stop? Where is the trust and respect in snooping?

[Emilyjane101]

Yes I can totally relate to that joysmum by having a look on my DHs phone more regularly at the beginning I now trust him so much more. And now if I have a look once a month there is nothing on there that is interesting it makes me feel better. But it works both ways, we know the pass codes to each other's phones, which automatically logs on to Facebook/Twitter/whatssap etc and just by having all that open and happily leaving it for the other person to look makes you trust them more. If my DH started taking his phone with him to the loo etc I would already know something is up......

garrick that is spot on "its impossible to snoop where nothing is hidden"

I think having very 'private things' isn't entirely honest in itself, would it be strange if you had a private drawer your other half wasn't ever allowed to look in and if they did it would be a deal breaker??

if you would be offended if the person you love looked through your phone I would think that a bit strange in itself. What's so private about a phone? Texts to your friends, music, photos of your kids, calls to the dentist, what is on there that is so private?

[Garrick]

I agree with Emilyjane and her Mr. There is no fully right or wrong answer to "Is it OK to snoop?" because everything depends on what else is going on, the balance of power in the relationship, and past histories. When you're both relaxed about sharing information, that's the only time you know you've got a good balance of trust - because it's impossible to snoop where nothing is hidden.

I do want things to work, and I don't want to break up a family and a a marriage.

Was this the marriage you envisaged? Did you plan to raise a family in an atmosphere of blame and counter-attack, escalating aggression and tensions? Be careful about what you're protecting here.

[Joysmum]

I'm all for snooping, my DH would agree too despite the one being snooped in.

If I hadn't snooped in those early ears I never could have trusted in our relationship because of my history.

Not trusting in the relationship is not the same as not trusting him. I never trusted in myself not to fuck up and push him away.

I've not snooped in donkeys years now and I fully trust in his live for me even though I don't understand how it can be.

If I'd not snooped we'd not be 22 years into a wonderful relationship and my irrational fears would have destroyed us. We're both very happy and if that meant the snooping was needed to learn to trust again then so be it. I'd rather never have been paranoid enough to feel compelled to but it was that or never reach a state of trust.

Whilst I fully appreciate others won't agree, the persons feeling that matter is my DH and he's just glad I was finally able to commit.

[Lweji]

Sorry.
Domestic violence.

[MatrixReloaded]

I lived with this sort of thing and I really understand how you feel. Do you have access to his phone , email ? I would check what he's up to as cheaters often project like this.

After that I would lock him out of all communication and I wouldn't entertain any discussion about infidelity on your part. If he really thought you were he would leave.

[YouLostMeThere]

thegreysheep yes! Self-fulfilling prophecy - I have used those exact words. He thought I was threatening him! Grr.

[thegreysheep]

"I feel invaded and that he doesn't respect my boundaries.... He also manages to get and grab hold of the wrong end of the stick and WILL NOT let go!"

OP, not respecting your boundaries is not good, and the not letting things go sounds exhausting. Maybe his unreasonable behaviour s rearing it's head again like it did for his EX?

A friend of mine is currently dealing with a lot of jealousy of exes from her new partner - she literally can't do a thing right sometimes and gets accused of all sorts. It's 100% his issue and he's insecure as he feels she's going to leave him. She really loves him but ironically she probably WILL end up leaving him due to his behaviour - self-fulfilling prophesy on his part.

[Elendon]

YouLostme

Well, I put my heart and soul into my third child, because he needed it.

And, he's doing GCSEs now, and coping well - he's a lovely 14 year old lad. We who were abandoned all agree, me, him and his two older sisters as well; we all deserve a .

[SacredHeart]

Total deal breaker for me. If you can't trust someone, what's the point of the relationship?

I have never cheated but have been cheated on twice but I still never snooped on partners, I just talked it out and dealt with being shat on. I would say both cheaters constantly checked up on me where I was, what I was doing and my emails etc..so I think it can Be a sign of a guilty conscience as they project their guilt onto the other.

[YouLostMeThere]

Lweji. DV?

[YouLostMeThere]

Elendon that's horrid, poor you. Hope you're coping.

[Lweji]

he Does come to the wrong conclusions, and then he persists and persists and will not let it go.

Yes, I'd say his anger and anxiety are the worrying parts there.

It reminds me of my exH, who ended up committing DV.