unwanted attention

[DollyRocker1]

I've recently joined a volunteer group and am having a fabulous time - ran my first training event tonight.

However there is a guy in the group that is being forward. Tonight he put his arm round me and when I said I had had a Big Mac before coming he said he could fall in love with me as he loves McDonalds. He also drops hints about going to the cinema and for a meal.

It's hard to describe exactly but to me it's more than friendly banter and he's making me feel uncomfortable as I'm not interested in him in this way. He isn't from this country so I wondered if it was a culture thing at first but don't think it is.

I need to keep things cordial / friendly as we have to work together on projects. How can I deflect his attention in an appropriate manner?

[SolidGoldBrass]

Yup, from what you have posted now it does sound more like boundary-crossing - and that he has form for doing it - so hopefully the team leader will get him to mind his manners and leave you alone.

Cailin: I do think that there are people who will delude themselves that there are reasons other than 'not interested' when someone doesn't respond to initial overtures, and that not all of these people are dangerous predators. There's a thread with a female OP active at the moment who is determined that there is a 'spark' between her and some bloke who's done everything but run off screaming whenever he sees her...

And, again, it's awkward when A fancies B and B isn't up for it, even when both parties are perfectly nice, reasonable people. It isn't necessarily wrong to flirt or try to initiate a flirtation as long as you back off when told, but quite a lot of people are reluctant to be blunt (whether the flirting attempts are creepy or just unreciprocated). People don't, on the whole, like to hurt other people's feelings.

[AnyFucker]

..and that is absolutely your prerogative

[DollyRocker1]

Hello, thanks for your comments. I have mentioned it to the team leader. She has been concerned herself about his behaviour and was intending to address it but hadn't yet found the time. We are going to sort it out next week.

The arm draping happened at the end of an external event we were hosting, so was totally unprofessional and was the main reason I mentioned it to the team leader who wasn't there last night. If my male work colleagues acted in this way I wouldn't hesitate to report this to my manager, so why should I put up with it in this situation? It's not been one forward comment about going out, it's been several every time I've seen him.

It's hard to explain but with this guy it's not so much what he says but how he says. He's very intense.

I get what you're saying about how my boundaries being slightly more relaxed if I fancied him but TBH this would put me right off.

[RubbishMantra]

It's horrible being sharked. I joined a similar group. walking down the road the next day I heard someone shouting my name. Bloke from the group. First question he asked me was "are you married/in a relationship." Never even spoken to him before.

He was in a relationship. And had "play fights" with his gf. Where the police would get involved.

The McDonalds declaration of love would have made me laff a bit though.

[cailindana]

SGB do you genuinely believe that there are men out there who are chatty and tactile but who are so poor at reading body language that they can't tell when someone standing right next to them isn't interested?

[SolidGoldBrass]

We shouldn't have to tolerate ongoing unwanted attention from men, but from what OP is saying, she hasn't yet indicated to the man in any way that his behaviour is unwelcome. Going by what she described (and as a PP said), if she was in the market for a date and found the man attractive, the behaviour would not be unwanted.
I do appreciate the issues around the fact that women are socialised to be nice to men, and also that our culture expects men to make the first move when it comes to dating. The OP doesn't owe the man a date, a return flirtation, access to her body or anything other than friendly courtesy. It's the sort of situation where she might feel more comfortable using a non-confrontational excuse such as 'I am already in an exclusive relationship'.
It's only if he doesn't accept whatever refusal the OP offers that a boundary really has been breached.

[cailindana]

Yes don't drink, for women, every man is a potential rapist. Rapists don't wear signs around their neck. But a lot of them do cross boundaries, act overly friendly, refuse to back off even when there's no interest etc.
I don't understand your post DrMorbius. Yes, everyone has different boundaries. The OP knows her own boundaries and this man has crossed them. She has every right to tell him to back off in no uncertain terms.

[AnyFucker]

No, I don't read it as "dangerous sex pest alert" but equally I don't think women should have to tolerate unwanted attention from men, no matter how well intentioned

[DontDrinkandFacebook]

AF hmm…well 'it's more than friendly banter' could be interpreted one of two ways. The way I interpreted it, is that it is flirty banter with a hopeful agenda, as opposed to non-flirty banter with no agenda. Whereas you obviously read 'more than friendly banter' as 'dangerous, predatory sex pest alert.'

Women know when their boundaries have been crossed.

Er…yes they do, of course, but not everyone else does!

in the OP's case, she doesn't fancy this guy, fair enough, so her boundaries are somewhat different, I imagine, to what they might be if she did fancy him. We'd be hearing 'ooh, do you think he likes me? He put his arm around me the other day in a friendly sort of way so I'm not sure if he's flirting or not, but he did joke that he could fall in love with me for liking McDonalds - what do you think? Does it sound like he's interested? He did mention the cinema...'

Yet, everyone says 'Oh he's just being friendly, he's just angling for a date.' So the woman is left feeling like a rude bitch while the man pushes and pushes. Conveniently if he rapes or assaults her, he can say that she never knocked him back. Lose all round for the woman.

So he's a potential rapist now?

The way she talks about him anyone would think he spent all his time cornering her, groping her and whispering lewd comments in her ear, not hinting that he'd like to take her to the cinema. I know it's a bit icky if you really don't fancy someone but maybe he's just one of those socially inept guys who is not very good at judging social situations, body language etc. It's not a reason to be downright nasty to him at this stage, I'm sure he'll get the message soon enough if she just gives him a wide berth and is a little aloof.

Or, he's from a culture where the sexes don't mix freely and sees British women as fair game and a sure thing, in which case OP by all means, put him in his place as firmly as you like, because he is showing you huge disrespect by treating you differently to they way he would expect his own sisters to be treated by a man.

But based on what the OP has said, I really don't think it's fair to assume at this stage that he's a creepy potential sex attacker who needs to be barked at to keep his distance. At least try to let him down the normal way first. Then if he's a thick skinned creep, by all means up the ante.

[MadeMan]

"Either that or knee him in the nuts, whichever works best for you."

I missed this comment yesterday.

I imagine a knee in the nuts would put your feelings across quite succinctly, OP.

[BabyGanoush]

just say:" you know, that actually makes me feel really uncomfortable"

or "please don't touch me"

You can say it in a friendly manner.

Just realise I have not and any (wanted/unwanted) male attention for ages...I don't miss it!

[LastNightADJSavedMyLife]

If you can you need to be, or appear, really confident in this situation. If he moves closer/touches you say "Don't" If he carries on "I''ve asked you once, don't do that"

If he continues then someone, a manager if you have one, give him a final warming or he leaves the group.

Sometimes men people use your kindness against you, and you want to be perfectly clear you will not allow him to do this.

I had someone recently in a pub put his arm around my waist. By saying straight away "don't touch me" it got him off guard and he fucked off. More difficult in a social setting though I know.

[popalot]

I should think he probably knows he's crossing a line. Be firm but polite and tell him you don't like the touching. Don't apologise either. He'll take advantage of that. Let him feel embarassed. It'll learn him for next time he tries it on too heavy.

[DrMorbius]

cailindana - Everyone has slightly different boundaries surely. Of course there are "hard boundaries" but from the text of the OP alone, it is hard to tell if any have been crossed. The first response should always be a polite "no thanks" in whatever way is appropriate to the approach.

It is not always so obvious if there is interest, the following (in short) was posted recently, and almost all posters replied "she likes you, ask her out" and yet she is ignoring him: -

There has always been some awkwardness between us.
if we're in a group she tries to almost 'hide' her face with something)
Here's the thing, whenever I enter the room she's in she'll be looking at the door looking at me walking in then as soon as I look at her she turns her head and eyes away from me and goes back to loking at her PC screen.

If I look at her whilst she's walking past, and she notices, she'll avert her eyes.

She seems to kind of ignore me more than others.

if we're together in a group she'll be more Interacting with me, but if we're alone she'll be less so.

If we pass each other alone she won't say a word to me, other times she will.

Do I annoy this woman? it's starting to bother me, why she would avoid looking at me when I look at her etc I hope I haven't done anyhting for her to dislike me.

[DollyRocker1]

Thank you. I woke up to a FB message from my best friend. She said is it xx? A group shot of 14 had been posted from last night. I asked how she could tell. She said he had a look.

[cailindana]

Women know when their boundaries have been crossed. Yet, everyone says 'Oh he's just being friendly, he's just angling for a date.' So the woman is left feeling like a rude bitch while the man pushes and pushes. Conveniently if he rapes or assaults her, he can say that she never knocked him back. Lose all round for the woman.
No one has to put up with someone stepping over their boundaries, ever.
OP you don't need to be polite. Typical, kind people can clearly see when another person isn't responding well to them. This guy either doesn't care about your discomfort or has a problem with understanding boundaries. Either way you need to draw a definite line.

[AnyFucker]

"it's more than friendly banter and it makes me uncomfortable" has crossed a line though, right ?

[DontDrinkandFacebook]

I agree with SGB. I understand what you are saying AF but people do have to start somewhere when trying to chat a person up and flirt. If they didn't take a punt by being very friendly and familiar and maybe even a little bit tactile once in a while we'd all be waiting a bloody long time, watching for A Sign that the other person might like us without ever daring to give out any signs ourselves.

It's can be a risky business, flirting and angling for a date - sometimes we get knocked back. But if you are doing the knocking back there's no harm in doing it gently and diplomatically is there? It's not really necessary to be be so blunt and rude about it at this stage, is it? It's not like he's being a sex pest.

I see no reason to be so hard on him unless and until he becomes an annoying, thick-skinned creep with no boundaries.

[SolidGoldBrass]

From what the OP has said, there is at least a possibility that this man is not a clammy-handed creep but someone who is simply making initial advances. (She mentions he's from another country so there might be a cultural difference, and it's not totally unheard of for people in volunteer groups to start romantic or sexual relationships with one another.) This is the sort of situation where the I-am-already-in-a-relationship line can work, when you want to maintain an amicable friendship with the person who has expressed an attraction to you and give him/her the opportunity to retreat gracefully.
Of course, if either the My Partner line or the polite assertion that you're not romantically interested, thanks, doesn't work, then it's time to be firmer and, if need be, enlist whoever's in charge as backup. Mr Hopeful might have form for grabbing and slobbering at every female newcomer to the group and one more complaint might be enough to get him booted out.

[MadeMan]

"...and when I said I had had a Big Mac before coming he said he could fall in love with me as he loves McDonalds."

You could always tell him that Big Mac your huge brick shithouse giant Scottish caber tossing boyfriend.

[Botanicbaby]

but 'My Partner' could mean a female partner as much as a male one :)

OP I would hate someone to put their arm around me too but some people really don't mean this to be creepy and can catch you off guard. I think if you have a startled, uncomfortable reaction and he doesn't pick up on that and not do it again, then he is ignoring it deliberately. I'd have no qualms about saying loudly DON'T DO THAT..

I think him dropping hints about going for dinner and cinema need to be handled directly, nipped in the bud asap and you need to be as subtle as a brick here. Say you are not interested, no can do, not gonna happen. Firm & no nonsense, matter of fact tone. Don't let him spoil your enjoyment of volunteering!

[AnyFucker]

It doesn't sit right folds arms

[SolidGoldBrass]

AF: That's why I said that some people don't like doing that for ethical reasons - it's not something I would like to do myself. However it's an option for someone who wants to avoid anything more confrontational while putting a stop to the unwanted advances.

[AnyFucker]

ugh to using either a real or imagined other male to see off said nuisance male

brings up nasty images of ownership of females