Christmas with toxic grump parents. Tell me it's not my job to fix them, please!

[rainbowmash]

Sorry my first post on here will be a negative one. I am 25 with no kiddies yet.

I'm alone in my flat after spending Christmas day in a black cloud of negativity and tension.

For as long as I can remember, my dad has been a mentally diapered manchild who had such a quick hop from his mum to his surrogate-mum wife (my mother) that he never found the time to grow a sense of social accountability, or experience any real consequences for his actions.

He is an intelligent, loving, accomplished man, but for one reason or another he gets into these moods where he feels like he needs to dominate the situation in petty, horrible ways. He gets off on throwing his weight around in the form of put downs and snide remarks. I think he is lazy and undersocialised, and feels resentful that he doesn't have the kind of life he wants. In the last few years all he's done is hang around the house, and it's making him worse.

If he loses something (phone, keys, etc) while I'm there, I tense up, because I know he's going to take out his frustration out on the whole house, blaming my mum, cursing out loud, stomping and shouting and banging furniture around. Car journeys were always a nightmare, because it was a case of waiting for the almost inevitable row. Wed be trapped with them in the car, not knowing if it was going to be passive aggession or screaming rows this time around. Almost every time, he panics afterwards and tried to act super nice in any way except to talk about what happened and try to resolve it. I genuinely think he's not in the least bit manipulative, just impulsive and immature to the extreme.

Although we never felt physically threatened, it would make my little brother and I sick with worry when we were young. We didnt know when the next fight was coming. We are both emotional wrecks as a result of it, and have has problems with anxiety and depression, but our parents never made the link, or never cared to.

Mum is in total denial. She lives in a total fantasy land where everything is fine. She looks down on people who've had divorces, because sthat could never happen to her, its something that happens to other people. Screaming rows are "forgotten about" and never spoken of again. No matter what he says to her, the minute he calms down, it's like none of it ever happened. She thinks she is being very clever by "ignoring" his outbursts, when really all she is doing is giving him a free ticket to storm about terrorising the house with no consequences. On the other hand, she does literally everything for him around the house. He would be a lost wreck with out her, like a lot of men from that generation.

Because everything would always be "forgotten about", I never felt I was "allowed" to acknowledge that the bad stuff ever happened. It's like I was made to question my perception Of reality. Mum was really bent on making sure I was a doting little fantasy child who adored her parents without question. Neither or them understand why my brother and i keep our distance these days, rather than smothering them with kisses every second of the day.

I am very blessed to have grown up, sorted my head out, and formed my own set of behavioural standards with my partner.

Anyway... Christmas day was a disaster. It was like a stream of negativity coming out of his mouth. He slung insults at the people on the telly, the people on the radio, the people in the newspaper, and generally made an atmosphere. He needed to look for batteries at one point, which led to a huge noisy scene where he stomped around cursing the house, his life, and my mum for "moving his stuff" (if she didn't tidy his stuff away occasionally, the house would be a tip). It got to the point where he was shouting sarcastic questions at mum and taking the piss when she didn't answer. She was working hard in the kitchen, but he acted as though she was just busy out of spite (he thinks meals appear by magic). Me and my brother hid upstairs in our rooms like frightened kids - it was ridiculous.

He only just managed to tone it down when my brothers gf came over for dinner.

At the end of the night, he suddenly moved on to slinging insults at my mum directly, in front of me. He was trying to push her buttons by turning the telly up too loud. When she mentioned it, he turned the sound off altogether and smugly waited for a reaction. When she refused to say anything, he leant across to me in the silent room and said "just look at her face, [my name]. Huh, merry Christmas, eh?", trying to involve me in the game. I couldn't take any more, so I made my excuses and went to bed early. I have no idea what happened between them after that. I just sat in my old childhood room and cried my eyes out. I am 25, and I felt like a frightened kid again. How ridiculous! I feel utterly disrespected.

I think mum guessed I was offended, but I suspect she'll find a way to "forget" this, too.

I'm tired of being expected to play the part of the loving daughter and somehow "tune out" the negativity and never react to it.

I am desperate to do something about it. I need to be convinced that they are not my responsibility, I am not their nurse maid. Do I confront them, or are they a lost cause? I love them, and they're fascinating to talk to, but right now it feels like I'm grabbing snatches of interaction in between the bitter snipes.

Oh gosh, I splurged way more than I meant to. Sorry about the long read.

[DistanceCall]

Yes, you're right that it will be a complete culture shock for your family. But it needs to be done. Because this is completely unacceptable.

What they do about it is up to them - as you say, you don't have to fix your parents (which is something that you can't do, by the way. Only they can do that). But you can't keep up the pretence any longer. They may react badly or not, that's up to them. But really, you don't have to continue to play the role that was assigned to you as a little girl. You're an adult now.

[shadypines]

I feel utterly disrespected. And they probably won't change from making you feel like this OP, I am so sorry, this is awful for you and your sibling.
You are so right, it is not your job to fix it, it is theirs. Please don't feel you have to put up with it, you don't. If you don't feel you can say something to them about how they make you feel (not sure what you have got to lose though from the sound of it) then get away as much as you can from this toxicity and don't feel guilty about it. I hope things get better somehow.

[rainbowmash]

I know it's my call to say something or leave when things get nasty, but it's almost treated like a taboo in our family. I was seriously discouraged from bringing it up as a child, so it feels like an unthinkable task to admit out loud to them that I'm finding it difficult. It would be a complete culture shock to the whole family. A minor one, but a far reaching one.

[Postchildrenpregranny]

My DH grew up in an atmosphere like this. It has definitely caused him long term damage (he married his first wife at 19, I suspect to get away). His F actually hit his M(his paternal GPs divorced because of similar behaviour ) By the time I met them-they were in their early sixties- it had calmed down . I asked MIL once why she didn't leave . She was afraid she'd lose everything . I warned my husband, who has 'inherited' the temper/loss of control, that I would walk out if he ever laid a finger on me . He never has, though he could be verbally abusive when younger-he has mellowed with age . I learnt to 'fight back', in the sense of telling him his behaviour wasn't acceptable, especially when we had children. Much more effective than placating someone.And I made sure my daughters didn't hear it .
You have my sympathy . I would advise, as previous Posters have done, that you distance yourself as much as possible . My DH was lucky in that he learnt by observing my own very happy family how very dysfunctional his was . I think the suggestion of meeting for brief periods in public-maybe a restaurant- is an excellent one. I doubt you can do much for your mother, but you can try and preserve what is left of your relationship with them .

[DistanceCall]

And don't get involved in their relationship, which they seem to be forcing you to do. Don't think about what they will think or second-guess them or yourself - do what you wish to do, and if they don't behave like polite grown-ups towards you, leave the room or the house or whatever. It's the only way to deal with overgrown children and emotional blackmail.

[DistanceCall]

Look, someone's got to say something because this is ridiculous. You're doing no-one any favours by going along with your mother's fantasy and burying your head in the sand.

Next time your father starts getting like this, say something like "Why do you have to get so nasty? It's horrible for us, you know". If he kicks up a fuss, then let him and go out.

Your parents know on some level that what they do is wrong. This is intolerable, and any stranger to the family in their right mind would say something about it. You really don't have to bear this. Doing this to a little girl who can't stand up for herself is a form of abuse. But now you're no longer a little girl, and you really shouldn't put up with it.

They are grown-ups. If they want to be with you, they should behave properly. Otherwise, get out.

[rainbowmash]

This all seems so silly. If I'm going on about it, it's only because this is the first time I've actually come around to talking about it in a way that makes it sound real. It's so strange, I'm very open and honest about things that I find upsetting or unjust, but this is like a ringfenced zone in my head. It was never allowed to be 'real'.

If a friend or a partner or even a complete stranger was doing this to me, I'd boot them out of my life.

[rainbowmash]

Ugh... just had a call from dad, asking me to come round for dinner, out of nowhere, which is unusual. I think he's feeling guilty. I said a non-committal "yes" even though i was already in my PJs. Halfway through, mum asks to talk to me and tells me I don't have to come (context- she knows i was out late last night and worked an early shift today, and that I'm shattered. I don think she'd been aware that he'd been about to ask me over.). I could tell that the disagreement was already making them tense. I panicked and said I'd rather stay home. Dad comes back and says "what's mum told you to do, then?".

I feel really bad. I do think he's being genuine when he wants to make things right, he's just completely oblivious to the needs of others. He can't "pick up" on things going on around him. He thinks (hopes?) that he can cancel out bad behaviour with mawkish gestures. These gestures never include an apology or an improvement. He's extremely intelligent, but he can be so brainless.

Now I feel awful. I'm torn between feeling rotten that I turned him down, wary that I might have added fuel to the resentment between them, but also like I've just been used in a point-scoring exercise.

[MonstrousRatbag]

Be open. Can't be worse than all the hiding. tell your partner, talk to your brother. Not in the sense of expecting anything to be solved, just to acknowledge where you are with all this.

Leave your parents to it, I think. Anything else flirts with fantasies of rescue. Fact is, they are locked into this and it is unlikely you can get them out. What you can do is refuse to be involved. Leave the room (saying why). Better still, leave the house.

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

Sometimes it feels as though I'm the only one in the world who has to deal with this shit

Trust me, OP - you're honestly not. My own father has always been an evil brute and my DM had a hell of a life with him until the sheer stress contributed to her sudden death. Now his hatefulness is all-consuming and will only end with his own death

You'll never change him, so as many have said all you can do is increase the space between you; the idea of perhaps one day bringing children up among this atmosphere doesn't bear thinking about

[dostopdroningon]

Pennielane, I worry too about my behaviour reflecting that of my mother at times. I know it happens occasionally but at least I'm looking for it, am aware of how nasty it is for others and am trying to stop it. Threads like this are really useful to help me understand the situation as well.

[dostopdroningon]

This sounds really like my parents and you have my sympathies because it's horrible. I love my dad a lot and that's the reason I still go home at Christmas; he's not that well so I wouldn't like to upset him by not spending Christmas there. But my mother is so aggressive to everyone, particularly him, that I am always waiting for them to kick off and start yelling at each other. Interesting to read that a pp doesn't have children; I don't either (am 40) and I think it's because I grew up in such a stressful atmosphere that until recently I never equated family life with anything enjoyable - ex dp grew up with alcoholic parents and for the same reason, we agreed that we didn't want kids.

More recently I've started to walk out of the room when they kick off or just calmly say "please don't shout, it's not nice / not necessary". Mum usually does calm down a bit then because she knows that her behaviour is unacceptable. After 45 years they are never going to change how they interact with each other but they can tone it down when they need to. Do you think you could say anything to them like that?

[RandomMess]

TBH next year I'd invite your brother to yours for Christmas and tell your Mum & Dad why you don't want to spend time with them!

[HolaCaracola]

You just described my parents exactly. the only difference is that my father has had a successful career (but this has not made him any more pleasant). I have not had any contact with my parents for about 6 months. I have two children and the final straw was when I was physically attacked by him in front of them. My parents are now harassing me at any opportunity even though I have made it clear I want nothing to do with them. In any case, the peace I have from not being around them has done marvels for my well being.

Going no contact may seem a bit extreme, but I wish I had done it at 25, and before I had kids. You may wish to limit how/when you see them, perhaps arrange to see them in a neutral place where you can leave quickly, and don't go to their place or stay the night, limit the meetings to an hour or two. Decide how you want to approach it if your dad starts his bad behaviour - to ignore or ask him to stop and leave if he doesn't.

Be prepared that trying to put in boundaries such as this rather than no contact may lead to such an unpleasant reaction that no contact becomes necessary anyway.

Ask yourself, is this the sort of atmosphere I want to bring kids into, if I have them eventually.

and if you wouldn't want your future kids exposed to it, why would you put yourself through it?

Whatever you decide don't leave it until you are almost 40 like I did. You only have one life.

[Iggly]

This rings bells for me but it is my step father not real father. I now only visit for an hour once a year at Xmas. Last night I lay there stressing about it so may well make this the last visit as cannot take the shit anymore.

My mum flits between denial and accepting that his behaviour is unacceptable. I think it is her way of coping.

[MrsMargoLeadbetter]

Or even 2nd line. Arrhh!

[MrsMargoLeadbetter]

Sorry meant DF in the first line...

[MrsMargoLeadbetter]

OP, sorry to hear of your difficult Christmas. Your post rang some bells with me, esp your DH's behaviour.

I am nearly 40 and have 2 DC of my own. Having counselling has helped me over the years.

They all raised the idea of speaking to my DH about his behaviour, but I just cannot do it.

I still see them and they are good grandparents. Small doses helps.

But I have got to a place where I am less affected by it and I mostly accept I cannot fix them.

I think being aware of their behaviour will hopefully mean you can ensure your own future family (be that you and a DP or DP & kids) won't experience the same.

Hope you are feeling better today.

[Sprink]

Sorry, that's wasnt coherent or complete. It's late here. Best of luck.

[Sprink]

OP, can you get some counselling?

My hope for you is to get help for yourself do you can build the strength to speak to your parents about this, either together or separately. My hope for you is they will listen, and possibly modify their behaviour, at least somewhat (essential characteristics rarely change).

Did your father have a difficult childhood, emotionally? He sounds needy and seems to lack self-awareness of his own power. I'd guess he feels powerless often.

[GingerbreadPudding]

Oh rainbowmash, it sounds horrible. You can't cure your parents and your mum isn't going to thank you for raising it with her either. The only thing you can do for yourself is to get a little distance from it. Would it be possible to visit but not stay over? That way you don't have to end up in your bedroom in tears. Your mum doesn't confront the situation, she just waits for it to pass and that's worked for her a coping technique because like you say it does pass and then he's ok again. You also don't confront it but maybe there is a place for saying 'it's all getting a bit stressy in here, I'm going for a walk / going home' so that at least you get an escape and they know it's not just oddness from you. I do feel for you, I know very well how stressy family situations can wear you down.

[wallypops]

I stopped going to Christmas at my parents house at the age of 16 because it wasn't fun and I'm the youngest of 6 kids. And we all live miles away - 3 of us left the country to be away from them.

You don't have to go for Christmas and be subjected to your insult throwing father, you are 25 and can quite reasonably have your brother to Christmas at yours, wherever that might be.

Your post rang bells for me, as this is how my Dad was, and my Mum rewrote history even after he died about how lovely he was. For me that has been harder to swallow than the original shit-slinging.

[pollypocket99]

Also to add, I find it hard to make eye contact with my father, I don't know why. I am incredibly uncomfortable around him. Eg I could never do anything alone with him - I don't recall us spending any time together since I was a child. I couldn't bring myself to now, it would just feel too weird and I would feel very awkward. Just being alone with him in a room for more than a minute makes me want to run away

[pollypocket99]

I could have written this thread myself so I know exactly where you are coming from. Our parents and situation sound almost identical. I have run out of ideas myself about how to "fix" things and now just feel despairing and often empty of emotion. It is very sad. My parents have never hugged me nor told me they loved me - not that I can remember anyway. Christmas is all such an act - when I leave, my mother puts on this show "thank you for helping make it a lovely Christmas" and then my dad pats me on the back, I smile feebly (crying inside), get in the car and drive off, and burst into floods of tears as soon as I get out of sight. Friends that I have told (literally one or two close ones) say "Oh why don't you come to ours next year" etc but they don't realise how hard it is to observe happy families having genuine fun. I barely heard any laughter in my parents house this year. The couple of times I tried to make a joke it was not appreciated and met with the coldest of stares from my father. I am now 35 and also don't have any children. I think my relationship with my parents is partly the reason for me being single and childless still. It devastates me to think I may never have a happy family of my own as this is all I really want in life. And I would make sure it was a happy family, with every day full of joy and laughter and not taking each other for granted. I don't think it would occur to my parents that this is what I yearn for, as they really do not seem to see me as an adult who thinks for themselves and has their own life I also spent much of Christmas sitting in my bedroom wishing things were very different but not knowing what I could to change them.