WWYD? LT(not so)B or stick it out?

[MissSusanStoHelit]

DP and I have been together for nearly four years, living together for a year and a half. We are happy - he makes me laugh, he is kind, gentle, generous, amazing with DD, his children are delightful, my cats love him, he cooks, washed up after himself, gives me a lie-in every weekend and then wakes me up with breakfast in bed - and I'm having the BEST sex of my life.

So what's the problem? What more could I ask for?

Here it is - he doesn't want to get married. He says he loves me every day, and wants us to be together until we're so old we're taking turns on the Zimmer frame - but he won't marry me. He can't say why - it's not that he doesn't see a future with me, or that he's keeping his options open - but there is "something" that he is waiting for before popping the question, and he's not sure what that is or when it'll happen.

There have been lots of excuses over the years - ranging from "I need to sell my property first so I have the £ to buy you a ring" to "I want to wait till we're next in (my home country) so I can ask your Dad and Granny in person" but each time it doesn't happen.

Marriage IS important to me. It's not just the financial security, or the shiny ring, the piece of paper - I WANT to be joined to him forever, and wake up next to him every day. It hurts so much that he doesn't want me this way... we have talked about it over the years, and I've been patient, thinking he needed more time - but last night he admitted that he's not sure if he'll ever be ready. And I don't think I can live with that.

DD would be beyond devastated if she never saw her "brother" and "sister" again - so do I stick it out for her sake, knowing that we'll never get married and make myself be happy with that?

Or do I throw away the best relationship I've ever had, with a man who makes me so happy, (apart from the marriage thing) and try find someone who WILL want me that way?

(Before anyone asks, I have proposed to him and he said no, so that's not an option.)

I feel so sad...

[EhricJinglingHisBallsOnHigh]

You would be insane to end this relationship over this issue to be honest. If you buy a house that is 80% yours you will be in a great position should the relationship end in the future and if he pays the mortgage you will be better off financially. Marriage is important to you but equally it doesn't seem to be to him. You have a home and a family together and you are not financially vulnerable so why rock the boat over something that will make no material difference to your lives?

[CogitOIOIO]

" it would be better to NOT be married if we're buying it together?? "

Anything you buy after getting married is automatically deemed a 'marital asset' unless you have things ring-fenced, documented and protected beforehand. I have a friend going through divorce at the moment who did just that when they married 6 years ago. She owned most of the house prior to marriage. Her STBXH can make a claim based on his contributions and the increase in the value of the property but her initial investment is protected.

If you are not married to someone and buy a property together then you should still have it documented what proportion each of you owns and what happens if either party wishes to sell up.

[Joysmum]

Cog has said what I believe could be your answer.

In fact if you're financially more stable than him then not being married and getting the legals wrapped up could protect what you have more than being married.

[WhatsGoingOnEh]

Where will you be over Christmas and New Year? The more I think about this, the more I feel he might be planning a proposal but doesn't want to ruin the surprise (or be made to feel like it's YOUR idea again).

I hope I'm right.

[WhatsGoingOnEh]

*own pride

• own life

[WhatsGoingOnEh]

Then it became a case of "let's live together for a while, and see how it goes".

Well, he's been "seeing how it goes" for 18 months. How much longer are you prepared to give him?

If I were you, I'd leave it till after New Year (just to make sure he's not actually planning some wonderful Christmas proposal), then finish things. Not just for your win pride, but because otherwise this will drag on for years with one excuse after another, and your in life won't move forwards.

[museumum]

It sounds to me like you have a good relationship, while it's important to understand what he particularly objects to about marriage I think it's also important to understand what you particularly want about marriage.

I am married, got married before having children, but I would probably have been happy with properly sorted out legal affairs (wills, house deeds, insurance policies and pensions etc). I didn't change my name or have a big dress or bridesmaids etc. Marriage is just the easiest way to do the legal bit in one action if you haven't been married before, but with ex-partners and children with other people you should probably get a solicitor too anyway.
Many of my friends are not married, many are very against it, and of those who are a couple had a secret eloped wedding and you wouldn't know they'd married if you weren't one of their closest friends.

It sounds to me like you don't believe the relationship is the 'real deal' if you're not married... tbh I don't think it's fair to castigate him for not being able to answer why he doesn't want to unless you can really articulate why you do want to.

Have a read on here, maybe start a thread asking those who aren't married by choice why they don't want to be... many answers on this site will be feminist reasons that don't really apply to a man, but there will also be reasons that might help you understand him more.

[MissSusanStoHelit]

He did - we'd been together for a year at that point, we were on holiday together, very romantic, snuggling in front of the Fire... It just sort of slipped out! He was shocked ( to be fair, he wasn't divorced yet) and said he thought it would be better to talk about it again once The decree came through. Then it became a case of "let's live together for a while, and see how it goes".

[WhatsGoingOnEh]

But you proposed and he said No.

[MissSusanStoHelit]

He has definitely talked about marriage before - he has told me on at least four occasions that he wants to marry me and spend the rest of his life with me. we've had long chats about how long the engagement would be (short!), the type of wedding we'd have, who we'd want there, we've even been browsing rings online so he could see what I like! It's definitely not a case of wishful thinking...

[WhatsGoingOnEh]

Your DD sees his kids what, every other weekend? A couple of weeks during the summer? you mean you'd NEVER finish this relationship ever because she'd be so devastated by the loss of his kids..? I think it's an excuse.

[Nellagain]

House buying legalities aside, i completely understand where you are coming from.

The superficial but very pleasant day to day stuff is fine but the big things are one sided.
You wanted another baby, he had a vasectomy. Thats it, no discussion about long term contraception and revisit the subject at a later date.
You want marriage he is waiting for something"special" what exactly? Him to feel as committed as you?
In the meantime he moves in with you, into a nice ready made home, rather shortly after splitting with his wife, so not too much stress for him there.


It would be a deal breaker for me. If it were me i would be taking some time to consider whether i was happy to proceed like that or if there was going to be too much resentment from me. If there were then i would finish it.

[WhatsGoingOnEh]

Your DD will get over it. I promise.

[WhatsGoingOnEh]

Kick him out and move your granny in. Then you and your DD won't be lonely, you'll have more freedom to go out (she can babysit), and you won't miss him as much.

[MissSusanStoHelit]

Terrifying, indeed - not just for me but for DD too... I would be taking her siblings away from her if he didn't change his mind, and I'm now too old to give her any More... Can I really do that to her for the sake of a piece pf paper?

[WhatsGoingOnEh]

When did you propose? How did he say no but keep the relationship going??

[MissSusanStoHelit]

I'm the main factor in wanting the house - we have agreed that my grandmother can come live with us now that she's widowed and lonely, and we have no room as it is. So we've been looking for houses with granny annexes and found one that would be perfect. I don't think it's the granny idea that's putting him off, because it was his idea she move in with us rather than go into a care home at £££ a week!

[WhatsGoingOnEh]

God, I feel for you. What made you assume you'd get married one day? Has he led you on or did you just think it was bound to happen..?

I'm sort of irritated with him for saying he's "not ready" for marriage but appears perfectly ready to cohabit - which is exactly the same as marriage in every way except the legal protections. So he gets the sex, the company, the family life and your roof over his head... But won't go any further.

The only thing you can do is to thank him for being honest, tell him you love him and that he makes you really happy, but that you're not comfortable spending any more time in a relationship that's not heading towards marriage. Then help him find somewhere else to live.

If he loves you as much as he claims, he WILL change his views on marriage if he loses you by not marrying you.

But I can see why that'd be terrifying!

[APlaceInTheWinter]

Cogito is right about protecting your investment but you can protect your investment and still plan to get married iyswim

I think you're right Op to want some reassurance about the status of the relationship before purchasing a property together. Legal documents can safeguard what you invest but if you do split up you could still end up in a situation where you have to evict him, etc.

Who is pushing for a bigger house - you or him? In that context, I'm wondering if the marriage reluctance is related to the house-buying rather than the state of the relationship.

[RojaGato]

Maybe the conversation went in such a wrong direction because you are both looking at this under pressure- moving house etc. I know I've said things I didn't really mean in that situation, or said things in a way that made them sound firmer than they really were.

Sometimes speaking about it again the next day or a few days later when the pressure is off can put a new spin on things- you speak more gently to one another outside the pressure cooker.

I would definitely try to do that before you reach any decisions. But I would take what is said then very seriously.

[MissSusanStoHelit]

Interesting Cogito - so it would be better to NOT be married if we're buying it together?? If we were, would it automatically be a 50/50 split or could we do a similar share agreement for the purchase?

[CogitOIOIO]

If you're funding 80% of a shared property, you probably don't want to be married in advance of buying it. :) Not without having it properly drawn up as a joint purchase and your relative investments and share of the value documented and protected in case things go wrong.

[MissSusanStoHelit]

OK so back to the beginning -

We met online, about 4 mo after I'd kicked XH out and about the same after his XW made him move out. He approached me online first but it was definitely a 2 way street after that!

Yes. he's really divorced - his decree absolute came through in November 2013. I have filed it away so I know it's real!

She lives about 30 mins away, she is seeing someone long distance but they don't live together.

This whole thing came to a head last night because we need a bigger house - my tiny place is just too cramped with 5 people every 2nd weekend - but I said to him I don't feel comfortable buying a place without being married first. He then said that we wouldn't be getting a place at all for a while then and the whole convo started...

So as not to drip feed, if we DID get a bigger place I would be funding 80% of it, through an inheritance recently left to me by my grandfather, plus the sale of my house, which we currently live in. He would get a mortgage for the remaining 20%. So I really wanted some sort of assurance that he was committed before putting all this money into a property together!

[WhatsGoingOnEh]

Let's go right back to the beginning. How/where did you meet? Who approached whom the very very first time you spoke?

Is he fully divorced from XW?

Does she live nearby? Is she remarried/cohabiting?

[APlaceInTheWinter]

I think you should explain to him that his reluctance to get married is making you question the entire relationship.

It's obvious that you feel you've made sacrifices throughout the relationship both financially and emotionally. I think there's only so many sacrifices a relationship can bear before it sinks under the resentments. It would be better to leave before it descends into recriminations.

I don't think it was unreasonable for you to make sacrifices for a relationship that he had led you to believe would lead to marriage. Now, he's told you that it won't ever lead to marriage then you do need to rethink your position. A PP's suggestion about putting the equivalent legal safeguards in place is a good one but if this is about emotional commitment, and him meeting your needs rather than you sacrificing your needs to him again then the legal paperwork isn't going to make you feel better (although it's incredibly sensible to put it in place anyway).