Teasing father, how cruel was it?

[mynewusername]

My father died a few weeks back. Like a lot of fathers, he was in some ways great and in some basic ways not-so-great. My sister was asked to write his eulogy, and she asked whether we wanted to mention anything in particular. One of the things I wanted to mention was his skill with words and tunes, evidenced by the songs he made up about us all when we were very little.

This is when my sister got a bit upset and said she'd prefer not to mention that, because she found "her" song particularly hurtful. My song was OK -- it talked about how I had a bit of a lisp because I was wearing braces on my teeth at the time. It was short and sung to a cheerful, upbeat tune. My sister may have a point about her song: it was about how she was slow and lazy and didn't pull her weight around the house. It went on for longer than mine.

In a family of five children, the songs would be sung by everyone during long car trips for light entertainment. Everyone had their song and each song was sung in turn, sometimes lots of times until the subject of the song stopped crying (I think the idea was to toughen us up).

My sister was six at the time and we probably stopped doing the songs when she was about ten. Is she being over-sensitive about this after all these years?

I'm just curious because it caused quite a bit of tension at a very difficult time for us all.

Thanks for your comments, I feel I am probably in too deep to judge this.

[mynewusername]

Thanks everyone. Your comments have really helped.

Yellow, Norway was insinuating that I was of inferior intellect in one of her posts. I don't think I am, so I defended myself. I do think that's allowed.

I can see that I transgressed majorly, for some of you, in writing from my sister's point of view. But I was really just looking to see if anyone out there would have taken her side, and I thought this would be the best way of getting people's totally unbiased reactions. I was not looking for the sympathy vote but the bare truth of it. It was also a way of trying to get inside my sister's skin, in an attempt to understand.

I just want to thank everyone again. It has helped me somewhat, even though (or maybe because) this discussion did not go exactly as planned.

[ShizeItsWeegie]

I too think you are right to be upset by your treatment as a child. You were cruelly treated, definitely.

[yellowpuddingpot]

I'm not sure what being a Cambridge graduate has to do with anything Norway is completely and utterly right.

However that all sounds cruel.

[AcrossthePond55]

So you're saying that your sister including a reference to these 'songs' in the eulogy after you specifically asked her not to? I'd say the apple didn't fall far from the tree, then!

I'm so sorry OP. What your dad did was cruel and uncalled for.

[GregorSamsa]

I teach my kids, "It's only a joke if the other person is laughing. IF the other person is getting upset, then you're not being funny, you're being nasty".

Kids can understand this, so adults definitely should. Your siblings are colluding with the abusive dynamic that went on in your childhood, like a kind of Stockholm Syndrome.

[YouAreMyRain]

Teasing is a form of emotional abuse.

The first time I read that I was on a training course for prospective adopters, run by social workers. It was a very powerful moment for me. My DF was a relentless teaser. He played practical jokes on me and my siblings and would let the others in on it. Very cruel as we felt special and clever at the time but now I feel guilty for my part in it. His "jokes" still upset me thirty years later.

When I was five, I remember being asked to estimate something in maths at school. I was so afraid of getting it wrong and being laughed at and feeling stupid that I went into the toilets and cried.

I was five years old and I was terrified of being wrong because of the teasing (or tormenting) that I had experienced.

Teasing, although often seen as acceptable, is very harmful and emotionally damaging.

My dad died twenty years ago, before I realised how cruel he was. It's very hard to see things differently, especially about a parent who has gone. You have recognised it now and maybe need to allow yourself to grieve for your "lost" previous version of your childhood.

You are not wrong to be upset. I totally understand. I still breakdown when I talk about the tricks that were played on me.

[BlackeyedSusan]

oh love, it still hurts, probably because no-one is ackjnowledging that it was not nice.

I hope that people here have helped, by saying that you are right and it was hurtful.

good on your aunt too.

[MiscellaneousAssortment]

What a cruel thing to do - can you imagine making your own children cry by forcing them to sing a nasty song over and over?

I suspect your siblings dont want to admit the reality of the situation - that they colluded in being extremely nasty, and that their beloved dad was the instigator.

[mynewusername]

Yes, it's a common theme I see. Some people will be that way and it's not necessarily a generational thing. Yes this was happening in the late sixties/early seventies but even these days, some people need to see a reaction, need to know they have hit a soft spot. I can see it everywhere in other's threads. It must make them feel great.

I once remember an aunt saying to my father: actually that is extremely cruel and I would never let you make up a song about my girls. Daddy just laughed her off.

Thanks Attila, and everyone else

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

You cannot let it go because you realise that your dad's actions were both cruel and unnecessary.

If he did that to supposedly "toughen you up" (and why did he think that was necessary at all, he was not running an army camp) then it clearly did not work . All he did there was deliberately upset you all as his children and your mother did not stop him from doing that either. Power and control crap rears its ugly heads yet again.

[Eastpoint]

My father is very similar and I now call him on it - when he says nasty things I ask him why he said that or ask him to be quiet. It isn't nice to grow up with such a man, I didn't have any speeches at our wedding as I didn't want him to be unpleasant about me in front of 100 people. I think its hard for you to let it go as you feel you should feel sad he has died and instead you can remember him making you cry. I'm sorry he was mean to you when you were a child and needed his loving support.

[LizzieMint]

It sounds utterly vile OP, what a cruel thing for him to do. Not only to make up mean songs about his children, but to encourage the other children to also participate.
To me it sounds more like you have processed more of your childhood and recognised that your dad had faults, it sounds like your siblings are still in that mode of 'he can do no wrong'.
My DHs dad teases terribly, he always always takes it too far and his excuse afterwards is that he was only joking and never meant to hurt any feelings. Bollocks to that, he's just an arsehole. It's taken my DH many years to come to terms with his dad.

[mynewusername]

Honestly, thanks everyone for your support. The funeral was last week. My sister re-wrote the eulogy, in a vile temper, saying that the songs were essentially affectionate teasing. I sat through the eulogy like a dumb thing -- luckily I did not have to read it out.

The rest of the eulogy was a fair celebration of a life well lived... he was, as I said, for the most part a good father.

Don't know why I can't let this go. Thanks for helping

[mynewusername]

I'm a Cambridge graduate, speak five languages, run a successful business, am widely read, so I feel my intelligence is OK Norway.

It's not at all a work of fiction, it's completely true and I know my sister's point of view as she has expressed it to me in plain and simple terms several times.

Sorry if I insulted anyone's intelligence! I don't come on here that often so missed the etiquette obviously.

[DishwasherDogs]

If your sister doesn't see this as a big deal, chances are anything you say is going to make no difference.

You could simply spell out to her that you would rather that was left out as it brings up bad memories for you, but if she is as sensitive as a brick, she may ignore you.

I do sympathise, I was teased by my father and had issues dealt with in a very humiliating way, most of my siblings felt the only issue was my over sensitivity, which was shit.

[kleinzeit]

(Sorry, x-post there - I didn't realise you were the other sister)

[kleinzeit]

A eulogy should remind everyone about someone’s best side and not their unkindnesses (even accidental ones). Are there any other, happier examples of his talent for songs or music that your sister could mention instead? You really don’t want to upset your sister at the funeral, or cause the rest of the congregation to have a sharp intake of breath.

[HumblePieMonster]

I don't like the sound of him at all, sorry.

My own dad was very 'teasing' or mocking when I was a child. Later, I put it down to his being uneducated - he left school at 13. But he's had years to catch up, he's intelligent, and he still tries to undermine me, even when I'm doing him a massive favour with his office work (taking over a month) and thinks that if he gives me some money, that will excuse everything.

[fairypond]

It doesn't really matter which sister you are, he was still a shit dad.

[NorwaySpruce]

It really doesn't help to try writing as though you were the other person.

You can still only offer your interpretation of how you imagine they see things, not their viewpoint at all.

Your sister's story might be totally different (and probably is).

It doesn't, surely, take a gargantuan intellect to see that, and not insult the intelligence of people taking time to read what is essentially now a work of fiction.

[mynewusername]

Thanks again everyone. I have committed the ultimate MN sin maybe, I AM the other sister. But I really REALLY wanted to see if I could get anyone to offer my older sister's point of view and I thought this the best way to do so. And I didn't realise "reverses" were frowned upon.

I really appreciate your words but I don't know if I'll ever feel better about this. What I would really love is for my three sisters and my brother to say, yeah, we all sang your song and yours was very cruel and sorry we kept singing it. What they keep saying instead, if they comment at all, is that the songs were really very funny and clever... and I should get over myself.

Of the other songs: one was about braces, one was about a being treated for a dislocated hip ("we hope she'll get better"), one was about not enjoying country walks, but MINE was about how slow and lazy I supposedly was.

For me there is a huge difference and if my sisters could "take" their songs it was because they were not as cruel.

My brother's song, by the way, was just as cruel in my opinion... it called him a whiner. Harsh for a little boy. But he has never complained about the song (though it did make him cry at the time if I remember correctly).

[DishwasherDogs]

I know everyone has said it now, but please don't being it up. Your dsis isn't being over sensitive.

The more I think of it, the more I realise that being able to accuse people of being over sensitive when it comes to bullying is just people making excuses for themselves to justify being twats.

[ShakeYourTailFeathers]

We had loads of banter in my family - still do.

I don't ever, ever recall my dad making me cry on purpose

Listen to your sister's wishes. You've all been upset enough IMO.

[Boomtownsurprise]

I'm unsure why the reverse is mean but the poster wonders if you're the hurt sister not the ok one.

Well had he sung "you're fat and you know you are!" To you every car trip for six years do you wonder if you might be a touch upset?

If he's so great with words why is all you remember nasty jibes? Not a great joke? Thats odd to me.