No sex, no idea what to do

[ClayGhost]

I don't know what to do. DH's work is one where we have to move country every 3-5years. He is not British. We have two DC under three.

DH doesn't touch me. He doesn't want to have sex with me. Last time we had sex was October 2013. Before that was Jan 2013 and before that was end of 2011. He loves me though and I him. He has started seeing a medically trained sexologist (ie I think he's also a gynaecologist, not a only a "counsellor") who says he has a naturally very low libido.

Him agreeing that he has a problem has taken years to arrive at and has gone through many, many iterations of me thinking it's all my fault (I'm now clear that it's not, but my self-esteem has been damaged). It's also a big deal because he finds it virtually impossible to discuss sex, including with me.

The sex was never frequent or earth shattering, but because I was secure in the fact that he loved me I thought it would come with time, so was patient - and I had NO idea that men wouldn't want sex (I know, I know).

So, DH had one appointment and the dr gave him his personal phone number (so no going through hospital secretary) because he wanted to see him before he went on a month's holiday. DH didn't call.

I know it's only a month, but it took two months from the time he was given the referral to actually call, and only then because I had a meltdown.

I've been looking into divorce, but it's extraordinarily complicated because neither of us are nationals of our current country and we didn't get married here either. I've not worked properly due to moving with his job for the past 7 years. I've got no family to speak of and no friends here. He has both. The house comes with his job. I can't see a way where it works out ok for me. I literally have nowhere to go. Additionally, I cannot leave this country with the kids, without his written agreement. Because of our lifestyle, I don't really have anywhere to "return" to anyway - my friends are literally all over the world.

I'm finding it harder and harder to continue. Today I've just been trying not to cry the whole day. I have started to think that there's no point in even living anymore. I've felt down about it for a long, long time (and he knows this) but never this down. I've told my GP and she essentially thinks that the level of stress this has put on me is at least a contributing factor to my health problems at the moment.

I don't want to go on antidepressants, because taking a pill everyday should not be the solution to my marriage and it would be a daily reminder too. I do love him too so I don't really want to divorce, in addition to the massive difficulties that would cause.

And I HATE how people (especially visiting in-laws) see me down or irritated and think I'm unreasonable, I have a beautiful life, a husband who does lots with the kids etc, when behind the scenes I'm struggling with the fact that my DH hasn't so much as touched my arm for over a year.

I don't even know why I'm writing this, I just need to tell someone I guess.

[GilbertBlytheWouldGetIt]

I'm sorry but it does sound as though he may be Asexual.
Some people who identify as Asexual can enjoy sex, on a physical level, but don't typically experience attraction.

There is a spectrum of Asexuality, ranging between demi or "grey" Asexual, who are able to occasionally enjoy sex within a certain set of circumstances, to fully Asexual, who never want or need sex and find the idea confusing or repulsive.

Lots of people never realise they could be somewhere on this spectrum, as the definition of Asexuality is often over-simplified.

[FantasticButtocks]

Can you think again about massage? If you were to say to him I understand you don't want sex etc but I require some physical tenderness and comfort so I will be needing you to give me a proper massage once a week. He could go and have one himself first so he knows how it should feel, or even better he could do a course so he learns how to do it properly... If he agreed to this he might start to feel more comfortable about the intimacy, and the giving of pleasure.

This would put him on the spot about whether he actually cares about you and the marriage enough to actually put himself out and try something different.

[UptheChimney]

remaining with a great guy who I love and finding great sex with other guys

Thing is, that you want a full marriage with this man, and he's not reciprocating. The situation you're in wasn't what you signed up for, and you're not unreasonable to see this as a problem that is central.

I think even if you found sex with someone else,you may find that's it's not the act itself (or lack of it) that's the problem.

I really feel for you, as you've made all the compromises in your marriage, and by going wholeheartedly into it (changing countries etc) you've made yourself quite vulnerable & dependent. And your OH hasn't acknwledged that or reciprocated.

[Pinkfrocks]

Clay- I have some experience of this personally but would rather PM you to keep it confidential for all parties involved.

[ClayGhost]

That was a bit epic. Sorry, I need to become more succinct ;)

It has really meant a lot to see people replying to me and not making fun of me. I was a bit worried that I'd get a lot of LTBs and at least a few nasty comments and I've received nothing but kindness and compassion. I feel so stupid for getting myself in this situation and for not seeing where this was going way, way earlier and for not leaving when it would have been significantly easier (and had I known where this was going, I'd definitely not have stayed, even though he is wonderful in other ways). It's not a topic I can easily discuss with friends who are far away, nor the people I know here who all have some form of link to his work, which makes it doubly lovely to have had such caring replies and comments. Thank you.

[ClayGhost]

Pinkfrocks - I've asked if he's asexual, but he assures me he's not: he says he wants to have sex and people who are asexual apparently don't. I don't get it though, because most people who want to have sex and have someone who wants it with them just do it!! The aspergers point is a good one. After reading something on here a while ago I looked into it a bit. He ticks some of the boxes, but not all of them by a long shot. It's something I want to bring up with the sexologist, assuming I get a session alone with him.

Upthechimney - thanks

MrsJackAubrey - thank you so much. Really. I do wonder if I'm going down a path like that and already find it a struggle to make myself look decent, because ultimately, I know that it makes not difference: I'm not wanted. It's degrading on a soul level and it takes a lot of energy to fight it. Your point about puberty is one I hadn't thought of, but I could see that as a distinct possibility with my DH too. I'm so sorry that you've been going through this too. Sharing it has been really useful for me, so thank you again. My kids (1& nearly 3) both laugh and get excited if I (force) DH to cuddle in front of them. Which makes me really sad, because I know they already notice that we don't often, they just don't know how to rationalise that info. And of course, I tell myself that part of the reason I'm staying is for them, even though I KNOW that's the wrong thing to do for so many reasons (number 1 being for them). As for testosterone, I managed eventually to get him to the dr for testing. By the time he went, my GP already knew the problem, because she asked me how I "really" was one day and I started crying and told her the problem. It was through her that he got the appointment with the sexologist. She doesn't seem to think there's a problem with testosterone and the sexologist (who is also a medical dr) doesn't apparently either. I'm a bit annoyed about that, because shots of testosterone are infinitely easier than therapy on about a million different levels!!!

Estrellita - you have hit on one of my biggest fears and problems: that by the time (if) DH sorts himself out, that I will be so full of resentment that I just won't be even remotely attracted to him. I think I'm going to start therapy independently (again..) to try to let out some of the resentment in a way that won't further cause us problems, or less at least. If I were without children, I wouldn't be doing that, but I'm just hanging on in part because I kind of don't have a serious alternative, but also because if there's a chance we can get it to work, then for the children it's really worth it. You're right about getting myself a more independent life here. I started language classes last year as that's a big hurdle if we end up divorcing and in the short term, it will be good for daily life. I need to do more though. The open marriage issue is hard. In my fantasies I'd like it, but in real life I'd just feel that it would make a joke of our marriage. My first boyfriend had parents who had an open marriage, not directly in front of the kids, but they'd figured it out, and I think in terms of messing with kids' heads, divorce is the lesser evil. Superficially, the thought of having my cake and eating it too (remaining with a great guy who I love and finding great sex with other guys) is very, very nice though ;)

[Estrellita]

Sorry you are going through this. I found it completely soul destroying and utterly incomprehensible when my ex H started sexually rejecting me about a year into our relationship. I was in my 20's and he was in his 30's and nothing like that had ever happened before to me. Our first year was very passionate, it started to tail off in the second, and the last three years were completely sexless. He completely refused to discuss the issue, and became very angry about it when questioned. He was not above using physical intimidation, and would often make very hurtful and nasty remarks about my "needs". He wasn't gay, he wasn't abused. I believe that he just lost interest in me after awhile, but was too needy to end the relationship. I was helping him with his business and had left my home country to emigrate elsewhere with him, both my job and visa were dependent on being in his good favour so leaving wasn't easy. I did, in the end. For the man I've now been happily married to for 10 years. Fortunately I didn't have any children with my ex. Your situation is much more complicated and really heartbreaking.

I think you should discuss the possibility of an open marriage, and try to get things in place so that you can live independently in your new country. As you can't divorce or take the children home, then please try to work on getting your independence back, along with your self esteem. Would your DH not be happy with an arrangement like this? It would take the pressure off of him. It sounds like he's trying to get help because YOU want him too, but not taking it seriously. Even if he were to make some progress, would you still desire him sexually after all the rejection? I got to a point with my ex H where even if he would have made an unlikely move on me, I would have been too bitter and hurt to accept it.

[MrsJackAubrey]

Hi there ClayGhost, i'm really sorry to hear about your situation, and I share your frustration - which is worse when you actually love your husband, like you do.

Just in case this is any help, as a potential view of the future, I'll share with you that I'm now 15 years into a sexless and tenderness-free relationship - and now my DC are mid teens. The impact of the lack of tenderness is far worse now than it was when they were small. They see that we don't kiss, hold hands, touch, - anything! They understand that this is different from how 'loving' relationships are.

I find the guilt of their knowing that their parents are in such a mess (I have to add I am not in love with their father, nor him with me, which may make a massive difference) is getting worse everyday. I feel terrible that my DS and DD are witnessing a friendly but not loving partnership in their parents, and I fear the impact this may have on their own relationships.

xAlthough I try not to show it, at 16 they are sensitive and emotionally aware enough to register that they have a mother who is careless about her appearance because I have no self esteem left about my sexuality; who is bitter towards their father, who is bitter towards men and cynical about love. They have a father who stopped hugging them about 4 years ago (at puberty), never kisses them (greeting my daughter back from a week away he pecked her cheek, she said to me it was like a kiss from her grandfather), and whose role model of being a DP is being a caretaker, breadwinner, light changer, spider catcher, taxi driver ... all good things but not a loving, intimate partner

If I had realised where I and they would be by this age I would have left him when they were small. I wish I had had the courage to do that. As they say, we all sit down to a great big dish of consequences at some point in life.

I so hope you find a solution. Well done on getting him to the sexologist! Have you tried to talk about testosterone to him? My DP refused, but maybe you could get him to have his testosterone levels checked (and treated?)

[UptheChimney]

Whatever the reasons for his behaviour, it sounds pretty unbearable. It doesn't look as though he wants to change. Really tough for you, OP.

[pinkfrocks]

Drugs are not the answer. ADs are for people who have depression- that's not the same as being in a difficult personal relationship and feeling very down.

There are people who are asexual- they aren't interested in sex and aren't interested in giving or receiving pleasure.

He may have Aspergers- google the Aspergers test and see if he fits the bill if you do the tick box test ( for him)

But whatever the reason, you need to decide if he's willing to work on this and try to change. If he's not then you have a very valid reason to leave.

[ClayGhost]

It looks like my last post didn't show up!

Jan45 - what you said hit a nerve (in a comforting way).

Beachy - he knows that I don't equate touching me with sex, or massage with sex. I tried to go through a list of things we could do ie non-sexual massage, cuddling that wouldn't end in sex. He wasn't really interested - or found it too much work. He does put sunscreen on me if I ask and there's no tenderness, just an almost mechanical rubbing, like you would preparing a piece of chicken. It's not just me, he's affectionate with the kids, but not tender. Sometimes I've told him he's washing their faces too hard. It's like he views the task as a job to be done, rather than, well, anything else.

I had a moment of doubt last night and googled "how to tell if your husband is gay" and he just didn't check many if the boxes.

[ColdCottage]

Beach, that sounds like a good idea. If he feels safe he might be able to take baby steps.

[beachyhead]

How would he feel about massage or physio? Just trying to break down those 'touch' boundaries. Or maybe rubbing sun cream on you, or wiping something from your face?

It sounds almost phobic.

I think it's also very important to set rules so that he understands that just because you want to hold his hand or cuddle on the sofa, that you will not be expecting anything more.... He could be afraid to start something he feels unable to finish, IYKWIM.

[Jan45]

I think you were conned in a way, you didn't know the extent of his issues, tbh, life is too short, he sounds nothing but hard work and doesn't seem even able to show affection, affection doesn't always mean sex you know - so it's not just sex, it's him, as an emotional human being - if divorce is too complicated, separate instead.

You do not have to accept this you know, you are a normal human being with needs and wants, we all do.

[ClayGhost]

TwoTall - you're totally right. His life would be perfect if I didn't need physical/emotional intimacy. Either he tries to figure out a way to find some passion/desirable, or we will end up divorcing - somehow. It's not supposed to be blackmail, it's just something I can't live without, having tried, and he has never tried to live with.

[Twotallladies]

You don't need to explain to anyone "why" you split up (if you do). That's entirely private. I understand that outsiders want a "why", but you don't have to give them one.

I feel your pain, but I wonder if he is simply happy as things are. If you were not prompting him to change, would he be seeking help?

It's very very hard to "make" somebody want something that they are just not bothered about.

Frustrating for you, though.

[ClayGhost]

UpTheChimney - I think he is a bit self-centred, although it's getting better, slowly. He admitted about 18 months ago that he was now in the proper mindset to be committed to someone, to get married, and before that he'd been thinking like a bachelor. When I used to tell him he was thinking of himself, he'd tell me I was being very unfair at even suggesting he was self-centred. It was good to hear that he'd realised somewhat, but I was devastated that he could marry me with that mindset, when is given 110% of myself to our marriage and him. I had been deeply commuted, whilst he hadn't been, despite saying he was.

I don't know if he thinks about how he would look in a divorce, but I certainly do. How can I tell friends and family the truth, when he's the father of my children AND I actually love him. Yet, why should I look like I'm the one who is breaking the family up. The unfairness of it really upsets me.

As for his status, I think it gives him a good sense of self to be a husband and a father and to have a "perfect" family. For his work, it's not essential to have that, there are many single men, and men living away from their families. If he were to be gay though, that wouldn't be easy. It wouldn't be a total nightmare, but there are definitely people who would not like it and I'm aware of that.

If it turns out that he's gay, I will be FLIPPING FURIOUS that he didn't sort himself out before, but also relieved, because it will be instantly clear to everyone that this is not a case of "poor him, such a devoted husband and father and his wife broke up the family for no real reason".

However, I really don't think he's gay. That in many ways would be an easy option for me. I think it's something else.

[ClayGhost]

Anti - LOL that you mention tantra! I'd LOVE to do it and looked into it before! It's just impossible with him though, at the moment at least, because he's so uncomfortable about physical intimacy or talking about it, that he just wouldn't be able to deal with it.

He does see things in terms of failure and success, quite black and white. I've told him, explained in different ways that it's not helpful to think like that about this, nor is it even true. I'm hoping the sexologist will help with that.

[UptheChimney]

Please don't feel guilty or that you enabled him. You went into the relationship with an open heart & mind, and were caring enough to try to see his point of view and understand his attitude.

TBH, from the outside, he sounds quite self-centred and egotistical. It's OK to be scared, nervous, gay -- whatever. What's not fair & not-OK is to refuse to do anything to change, or to free you to seek what you need.

It's almost as though he wants you to leave him, so he can look like the hard-done by man. Because he's assuming you wouldn't tell people why you left him in those circumstances & for what reasons. Hmmm

A lot of your situation seems worsened by your ex-pat status & his job. Is the appearance of a stable marriage, loving (SAHM?) wife and happy children important for his work? his professional reputation (if he's a professional)? His sense of his own status?

[antimatter]

Everyday closeness doesn't have to be sexual. As you say - tenderness is what is missing on his side.

As you are finding it exhausting to teach him because of his sensitivity over this subject he has to stop seeing it as a failure.

How do you feel about Tantra. You can get privatr teacher if you both are ready for it?

[ClayGhost]

Thanks both of you.

I know I enabled him. I was being kind initially, because I didn't know it was an issue other than shyness and didn't want to make it into one. Then I thought it was something about me, so tried to do all the things he said were causing him problems. Then I realised it had nothing to do with me. The guilt I feel about bringing two children into this is more than I can cope with some days. I really know I enabled him, even though it was inadvertently. I feel really stupid too. I'm a well-travelled, formerly life-loving, outgoing, independent person. Nobody who knew me before we met would be able to imagine this situation for me. Anyway, I know I've done it.

As for the daily intimacy, I've tried that. I have to explain every step - ie if you're holding my hand, you have to HOLD it, not just rest your hand in mine. He's responsive after a few reminders and genuinely tries to do it, but when you're feeling pretty worthless, telling someone something that is natural to everybody else is pretty soul destroying. He's not playing games, it's like he's never held anybody's hand before! Every single step needs to be explained, often met with a response about me being too picky (I'm honestly not! I know everybody has different "styles" of doing things and I like that) so I then have to justify, explain differently etc. - it's both exhausting and a bit soul-destroying after a while.

Sometimes I wonder if he's on the autism spectrum, but who knows.

[RandomMess]

As well as what antimatter says I would start insisting (perhaps that is too harsh a phrase) on some daily physical intimacy. I'm talking snuggling up on the sofa together nowt sexual - it's a basic human need to receive physical affection. He is able to be like that with the dc so there is no reason why you can't start there with cuddling for closeness and warmth.

I really hope it works out well.

[antimatter]

He needs to want to educate himself.
He needs to/has to understand that relationship is not only about providing for your family but also growing as a couple. This somehow is missing in his knowledge of the world everyone taps in when being with other people.

That's why I think after seeing sexologist he needs to just carry on reading,, talking and learning that is OK to make mistakes. Is he a perfectionist as well?

If he loves you as you believe he is, you have right to expect that from him and don't settle for anything less.
Just being pleasant with people when it is easy and reciprocal is one part od social life. In sex often one person gives more than the other and has to up their game so to speak. He decided not to. IMHO - very selfish. Because he could get away with it, you let him etc. Another partner would have left him if sex wasn't good enough. So in a way - you enabled him to carry on to do as he chooses.

[ClayGhost]

Thanks 5mad.Parents not particularly religious, neither is he. His mother is definitely not affectionate and he definitely sees her as a role model. He's never actually said I don't measure up to her, but it's been implied several times to the point where I've had to tell him that I'm not and never will be his mother.

It's entirely from him though, she does not interfere or try to keep him attached. Thank goodness, because that would drive me up the wall!

Thank you all for your thoughts. I hope this dr will hold some keys. I don't want to divorce the man I love, nor go through much more of this, but I also can't spend the rest of my life dreaming of previous partners (none of whom I wanted to marry really, but there was some incredible sex ) and feeling so deeply rejected and unvalued, unattractive, undesirable and the rest of it - and having my children grow up around a mother who feels like that and a father who thinks, to a certain extent, that it's both normal and acceptable.

I wish you years of good sex!!

[5madthings]

Was He brought up by religious parents?


It almost seems like he sees sex as bad? Just wondering if he has hang ups from
Childhood.


No advice but am hoping his counselling helps and you can get some support.