Did my husband rape me? So confused and ashamed to be asking

[bootwentytwo2]

I've never posted before, so hope I am doing it right. And hope it is ok too ask this question.

Is it always rape if you say no and they carry on? I can't believe I am actually going to type this. I had gone to bed to sleep and my husband was already in bed, asleep, or so thought. As soon as I got into bed it was clear he was no longer interested in sleep. I decided to go along with it for a bit to keep the peace. (He has in the past guilted me into sex by saing I obviously don't love him etc or ignored my polite attempts at saying no and removing his hands). I was hoping a quick kiss and a cuddle would satisfy him that I still loved him and found him attractive then I would be able to go to sleep. He suddenly started to climb on top of me and I began to panic as I am terrified of getting pregnant again as it is potentially dangerous for me as I was very unwell during my last pregnancy. I immediately said 'no' but he didn't respond so I asked him to get a condom. He still didn't react so I started to say 'no, please, no...' By now he was on top of me and as I was still saying this he pushed my legs apart and started to have sex with me. I immediately fell silent as I was in complete shock. I never imagined he would ever carry on if I had said 'no'. But because I thought he would stop I didn't try to push him off me, i thought 'no' was enough.

I am very ashamed of this next part. He didn't finish, he pulled out and then one of us got a condom and be then continued till he had finished. It may well have been me that got the condom. I was in a state of shock and confusion and thought it just didn't matter anymore as he had done the one thing I didn't want him to do. I don't remember that part so clearly. I didn't understand what had just happened and I guess I still don't. Did he rape me? Or is it not a big deal and I should just forget about it?

[buggerboooo]

He sounds horrible x

[CrepeFoofette]

Please speak to Women's Aid or Rape Crisis as suggested above. I really hope you have people in RL you can confide in.

[KirstyJC]

This is so sad. You think it might be salvagable because he only raped you once, maybe twice?

Do you want to spend the rest of your life going to bed each night next to him, wondering if that night will be the one when he will do it again?

Please speak to Rape Crisis or similar.

And it won't be bad for your children to leave this abusive rapist, it will be good for them.

[YellowTulips]

The fact is he has raped you twice. Not much remorse there is there?

How can you rebuild trust with someone who clearly has no sense that what they have done is wrong?

You worry about your kids - you are right to, but I think it's for the wrong reasons.

I understand how hard the concept of leaving is, but is the alternative really better? Imagine their lives with a mother whose self esteem is continually eroded. Is that any more damaging than separation?

[MisForMumNotMaid]

He has made the decision to behave in the way he has. That behaviour was beyond your control. Whats within your control is what you do.

Children are scarily perceptive. My XH and I didn't ever really argue. My DC were only 1 and 3 when he left but now I can see they were so much more relaxed and happy after he was gone than when we were together. They have a limited but positive relationship with him 7 years on.

I don't think you can learn to trust. Trust is an instinct isn't it? It takes a long time of laying foundations to build that trust.

From what you've posted it just doesn't seam like he's laying any foundations. Occasionally trying to paper over cracks by admitting something happened but even retracting that.

[Alambil]

"he is also very generous..... though that is often after an episode"

because he knows he has to placate you in to staying
because he doesn't want you to leave, so he plays the "nice guy" role for a while
because he wants total control over you - even INSIDE your body.

You need to stop joint counselling (it's ill advised in abusive relationships) and speak to Women's Aid - alone, in a safe place, where he will not know.

If he knows this log in - you need to change your password.

He's escalating his behaviour (from emotional/verbal to sexual abuse so far... .where's he going to go next?)

He won't stop, that's for sure - he'll just slowly ebb more and more of your soul away, tread you further and further down, make you doubt yourself even more - but remain the "wonderful, adoring" father so you feel guilty and confused.

It's all about power - carefully regain your power. Speak to Women's Aid 0808 2000 247 and regain your life.

[tipsytrifle]

People create or destroy trust ... we acknowledge what they've done by trusting, or not. At the moment you're waiting for him to create after he's destroyed ...

I'm not so sure that's a very safe bet and it might take the rest of your life .. in between incidents.

It's up to you but really, i think he's untrustworthy; i would never be able to relax or regard him as my partner again. When you feel strong enough to face it in yourself ... look to your own wisdom.

[JapaneseMargaret]

Your relationship with your husband is your children's blueprint for normal. You are telling them and showing them, 'this is what a relationship is'.

You are showing them that women are afraid of men. That they don't trust them, that they are wary of them. You are showing them that men are entitled to take what they want, and people who don't like it are irrelevant. Their feelings and wishes don't count. You are showing them that husbands and wives don't like or respect each other.

Your children may not physically see everything, but they are seeing too much already.

And then when they start to go out into the world and see their friends' parents relationships, and see what normal actually is, it will be a harsh realisation for them.

The long-term ramifications of staying with a partner like this can be way more profound than leaving.

I'm so sorry for what this man has done to you.

[magoria]

He has only raped you once or twice!

There is no only.

He has raped you.

Not just once. It will happen again.

[Cabrinha]

I am so sorry that you have been raped.

He is disgusting.

But even if you think you yourself it was "only once" - and once is one time too many - how many times have you had sex with him because he made you too scared to say no, or knew it would be too much hassle from him after? 10x, 20x?
More.

It's a very definite pattern of behaviour, not a one off.

You are allowed to leave him over the once, and you have many incidents to leave him over.

[kubbs]

bootwentytwo2, you say "assuming all the abusive behaviour stops"

In my experience, if someone 'gets away with' certain behaviour (i.e. gets to stay in the relationship despite it), they don't usually have an incentive to change.

How would he have reacted if you had shouted? Screamed? Fought him off? I'm not asking to say this is what you should have done, just to see if you feel capable/comfortable with being a mean son of a bitch with him! If you are worried about upsetting the children, I promise it's far less healthy (especially for girls) to see their mother under someone's control.

If that's not the case, then I do think you should leave him Everyone has self-protection mechanisms and if he is using his clout (be that financial, emotional, practical) to mess with your head to the extent that you can't use them, then he is not a good person to be in a relationship with.

Hope this helps in some way x

[kubbs]

P.S. I read this over and would like to correct the 'especially for girls' part..... thinking over it, it's just as bad for boys and won't do them any good in their future relationships at all.

[ThisIsMyRealName]

I don't have much useful advice to add at this time of night but I just have to say that the phrase:
"he only raped me once..."
is one of the most chilling things i've ever read on MN

Keep safe OP

[sykadelic]

"He is a wonderful father and he adores the children and they adore him"

I assume you once said "he is a wonderful father husband and he adores the children me and they I adore him."

Honestly, you need to leave. I know it's hard to take your own advice and he's "only" raped you once (once being once too many I'm sure you know) but presumably before he raped you, you never thought he would do that. I couldn't live with the thought that anything else I think he would "never do" could be the next thing he would do, let alone the knowledge that I can never sleep soundly in his presence.

He's shown he doesn't care about you, you thought he did. You think he cares about the children. What will he do to them when he decides to violate them and their safety in some way? Will it be hitting them? Would that be enough to make you leave him? Worse? Is the idea that he's a rapist not enough? If he can rape you, he can rape anyone else.

You're in therapy, but the source of your angst is still there around you, every day.

Once was enough. Don't let your kids ever have to say "it was just the once".

[somedizzywhore1804]

Just adding my voice to the chorus of:

If you say no and they do it anyway or carry on, then that's rape. Always, no matter what and even if you're married to them.

[bootwentytwo2]

Thank you so much for all the messages. It is enormously helpful to hear from so many people. I have spent so long doubting my own judgement about everything, but hearing everyone confirm what I thought had happened makes me feel a little stronger, like I'm not mad or over reacting after all.

I have come so close to asking him to leave, in fact I did suggest a trial separation a couple of months ago, but by the end of the conversation I had lost my nerve.

I am so much stronger than I was a year ago and I hope I will continue to grow stronger. I can feel myself start to come alive again and I like it. But I also recognise that for it to continue I probably need to be free from everything that has and does go on. That is much easier said than done though. I have told myself so many times 'no more chances' but it never quite works out. Partly I think because I don't know where to draw the line anymore, I'm not always sure if something is unacceptable, or if I think that it is, I tell myself that it can't really be that bad so it doesn't count as another chance.

During the last 'episode', he threatened to take the children away from me, which of course made me feel that I had no choice but to stay. I have tried to get free legal advice, but it turns out that is not so easy. If I do leave, I am scared that it will turn into some big, nasty drama as I get the impression he would do whatever it takes to get custody. It will be his word against mine and he is very convincing.

[43percentburnt]

Men like your 'd'h always tell you they will take the children. Its part of what they say. Does he cook, clean, take them to school, parties, doctors, dentist etc? Is he a sahd? Does he work? It's very important all incidents are recorded. Gp, health visitor, police. If you appear stronger then taking your children is a good threat to make you behave.

He is not a wonderful dad. A wonderful dad does not attack his children's mother.

Imagine relying on this man when you are old or ill. Op imagine being attacked like this aged 60 or 70 or 80. It is not normal. He is vile. If you can afford it pay for legal advice and make your plan to leave.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

Regardless of how many times he may have raped you you said originally that he 'guilts you' into sex. That is called sexual coercion and it is sexually abusive behaviour all by itself. He is not remorseful about any of it, it seems, and I think it is a vain hope to think that he is going to stop abusing you voluntarily.

Please get yourself and your DCs safe. And please don't make your DCs the reasons you stay around for more abuse.... that's a big responsibility to put on their shoulders.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

If you are frightened about what would happen after you ended it then please contact Womens Aid 0808 2000 247. You sound like you need refuge as well as legal advice & help in ending the relationships. When you are with an abuser - particularly a highly manipulative and intimidating one - it is very common for victims to feel frightened, confused and that they can't trust their judgement. So they end up sticking around which, of course, is what the abuser wants.

What helps those feelings are a) physical distance, b) time away from the abuse and c) the support and belief of others, confirming that the relationship was abusive and dangerous. So please think about refuge as your next step.

[bootwentytwo2]

I never thought it was serious enough to call women's aid, but I think the time might have come to get some advice on what happens if I decide to end the relationship.

I am most concerned about it being my word against his and how I would prove that any of these things actually happened. Perhaps there is nothing to be done now as I never reported it to anyone at the time.

Thank you so much to everyone for being so supportive and helpful.

[EhricLovesTheBhrothers]

It's the cycle of abuse. Of course he's nice sometimes, he needs to be to keep you there under his control. And of course it's after he has abused you, to get you confused and undermine your resolve to leave.
How can you repair a marriage with a man who rapes you? Can't you see how absurd that sounds? I bet there were more questionable incidents too weren't there? Ones that you might not call rape but where you did things because it was easier than saying no, because he would sulk and moan and treat you or the kids badly if you didn't do it?
This is a very serious situation. You can't sacrifice yourself at the altar of the family, which is what you will be doing if you stay with him, and his attitude will pervade other aspects of his life, meaning your children will grow up in the shadow of an abusive rapist, and will learn from him.

[CountryRoots]

Don't worry about the custody threat he is playing on your fear of a myth. Custody is an outdated idea. The courts don't take children away from their mother just because their father tells a few lies about her. They would likely want he children to remain with their main carer and have contact with the other parent and that's if he even bothers to go to court after a solicitor has put him straight on his chances. My ex husband also threatened this but in reality he can't be bothered to contact DS for months at a time. My ex also went round telling everyone I was a psycho and no one believed that either. You don't need to prove anything or justify your reasons to anyone.

My ex also forced me to have sex with him on several occasions by denying me sleep for as long as it took until I gave in. At the time I thought I was the one to blame by trying to deny him sex. I could weep when I think of how wrong my attitude was back then. You are a step ahead because you recognise that it isn't right. Many other times during the relationship i had sex with him willingly and thought that i enjoyed it however I left him two years ago and every day during that two years I have woken up grateful that I don't have to have sex with him any more. You will not regret leaving him I can promise you that.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

Please be reassured that this is not a situation of your word against his. It's not a courtroom situation requiring proof beyond reasonable doubt etc. The reality is that you are unhappy, being subjected to abusive behaviour, threatened with losing access to your children...... and an organisation like Womens Aid will have heard that story time and again, unfortunately. So you may not have enough evidence to prosecute him for rape - although you'd have every right to pursue that line and you would be taken very seriously - but you have more than enough reason to say that it is a bad relationship and you need help in bringing it to an end.

[bootwentytwo2]

I do see how absurd it all sounds. I hear myself sometimes and think how ridiculous the whole situation is. He hasn't raped me for 15 months, so perhaps it won't happen again? Who knows. I just need to get everything straight in my own head about what happened and the consensus is very clear. Which I guess confirms what I knew deep down already, It was just hard to hold into that knowledge when he started to deny it.

He claims it was a misunderstanding. Can it ever be a misunderstanding? And does it still matter as it hasn't happened for so long, should I just move on from it now? Sorry for all the questions.

[ShadowsShadowsEverywhere]

When people talk about abuse escalating and cycles of nice and nasty you assume that means over a short period of time. You think that if there's been only one incident a year that it can't be 'escalating'. The thing is, there is no timescale. Whether it's one incident every five years, every year every week it's abuse. Just think for a minute. Let's say at a guess you are 35. You may live to be 85. One incident of rape every year, probably getting a bit more violent each time. Now it doesn't seem like "only once or twice" does it. Say he doesn't do anything for another 5 years; you know he is capable, that in his head there is no big screaming red siren going off to stop him when you say "no". Something makes him believe that in that moment he is justified in continuing. He might regret it afterwards, he might seem contrite, but in that moment he thought he was justified in destroying your boundaries, disrespecting you and removing your voice from the relationship.

That's what he did. He gave your voice, your bodily autonomy no authority, no respect. How do you test whether that's changed? He can't prove it can he? Because no matter how much time passes you will always know in the back of your mind that he crossed that line, not once but twice. You DESERVE a relationship with someone who you know would never be capable of rape, and you don't have that ATM. And that's before we even look at all the other abusive traits you've mentioned. This won't go away and in staying, and refusing to act you are telling him that he can rape you and there will be no consequences, that you don't value yourself enough to walk away and kick his disgusting ass to the kerb.

I think you do value yourself enough as I think that's why you started this thread. Make that call to WA and get some support. And there's not a chance in hell he would get custody OP. Not unless he's a SAHD that does the majority of the childcare, and even then the courts would bt trying to award 50/50. To give a mother anything less there would have to proof of real danger to the children, prolonged drug use, severe alcoholism, physical abuse, neglect etc. he's talking complete and utter bollocks on that one.