Female perspective needed

[DesperateDad123]

Hi all - slightly odd to type this as a new(ish) father - daughter is 11 months old - on a site which I guess is aimed at mums more than dads. However, I'd really appreciate a female/mum's perspective on things.

My wife (of 4 years) and I are really struggling to hold things together after the birth of our little girl - she's perfect (our daughter!) and was the result of a long process of trying, surgery for my wife and a miscarriage along the way. My wife has always been pretty strong willed, after a less-than-perfect childhood, and is in all honesty a much tougher person than me. However, that drive and determination has (in my eyes) turned into something far more negative since our daughter was born, and we are a long way apart emotionally.

We've tried counselling (at my suggestion) via Relate but my wife was not keen and it petered out after a while, and she's not willing to try again. Other people (my family and to a lesser extent my friends) have noticed the level of (verbal/emotional) anger - I'd go as far as to call it aggression sometimes - which my wife clearly feels and aims at me. It's a pretty much never-ending stream of bitterness and anger which I am just at a loss to understand or deal with.

I've spoken to my GP who was supportive and queried whether there may be a hormonal element to it all, but is a bit powerless unless she goes to him for help.

I'm well aware that there are two sides to every story, and am sure I p*ss her off perfectly justifiably, regularly - that's the nature of relationships, I know. But I just want to be a supportive, loving dad and husband, and others outside our relationship have commented that things just don't seem right. Even if I'm wrong 50% of the time, that still leaves the other 50%, right?

We're now at a stage where I can't see how things could change, and she's dropped hints about how she and my daughter would be "better off on our own". My own parents are desperately worried about losing contact with the grand-daughter they adore, just when they feel that they may not have much time left (both are elderly and not in great health), and my wife's own parents sympathise with me but have nothing to suggest, though they try to help as best they can.

To be quite honest, the only things that keep me from saying we need to be apart are our daughter, and the practicalities of it all (I'm resigned to the fact that my wife would have custody of our daughter, but I'm not sure how I/we could afford to live separatel). I'm ashamed to say that I think my wife knows this and plays upon it - she knows I cannot imagine anything more awful than our family ending, and not seeing my daughter grow up, and she knows I have so much to lose that I can't say or do anything.

Anyway, I guess I'm hoping that someone can tell me (honestly) that they were in the same situation and turned it around somehow, or perhaps that their partner behaved in a similar way and it was just a phase. Thanks for reading this far - it's good of you.

[calmet]

I agree that if she is saying she would be better off without you, she probably doesn't see the point in going to Relate. Unless something changes, it looks like you are heading for a divorce.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

I know one woman who stuck with a partner she didn't particularly like much until she had the baby she desperately wanted and then deliberately made his life so unpleasant that he left. I know that because she told me.... Not saying that's going on here but having a baby changes life immeasurably, changes attitudes, changes priorities, takes a lot of getting used to and tempers get frayed along the way. If things were not rock solid beforehand the cracks can quickly show up. If life feels unequal after the child arrives, ditto.

The one thing I would say to you is to stop being so apologetic and stand up for yourself more. If someone is finding you irritating, the mea culpa 'how can I make you happy?' thing will only add contempt to the irritation. If you're being bullied and treated unreasonably, don't tolerate it. If you think she's suffering from PND or similar, she needs a doctor.

As others have said, you can't fix a relationship single-handed. If you fear that she would exclude you from your DC's life in the event of a split take steps to make sure that doesn't happen.

[Helpeachother4ever]

I think you have held up your side of the relationship in trying to work on it pretty damn well. Going on what you're saying. I say you write her a very to the point letter. exactly how you feel and asking her for an answer if she would really try and meet you half way. To help herself for the sake of you all. Make sure you're not around for at least a couple of hours, so she has some time to process it. And hopefully so she doesn't fly off the handle straight away. If the answer is no then I would have to go elsewhere while making every effort to see your daughter and still have half of the responsibility.
Perhaps all she needs is time to realise what she's lost. Or maybe not. In any case just make sure you and your baby are well and as happy as is possible. You're child really doesn't need to see her parents behaving this way. I say parents but i really mean her mother. Sorry just sounds like she's a very troubled woman and needs to sort herself out. You've tried to help all you can.

My DD goes to her fathers a couple of times a week and yes it hurts me not have her around all of the time. Untold hurt. But it was worse when ex and I were together. This way, DD gets the best of us both. Good luck.

[Helpeachother4ever]

Also hope you can read past my spelling and grammar error. I've not had much sleep.

[hellsbellsmelons]

Can you imagine putting up with this for next 2, 5, 10,15, 20 years?
Really?
It sounds like hell for both of you.

She cannot stop you from seeing your daughter grow up.
If she is saying this then that's truly vile and manipulative (I've used that word quite a lot today)
Get to a solicitor and see what they advise regarding access and seperation.

Could you move out for a while to give her some space?
Maybe move into your mothers for a week?

She should see a GP and either get a diagnosis for pnd that can be treated or realise that she doesn't have it and is in fact just a horrible person right now!

We only have your side, but you do sound like you are really trying to understand and make things better.

[DaVinciNight]

Ok I will give you the advise I would give to a woman too.
Go and check in your rights as a parent re who will be looking after your dd. yes she is still small and to start with you might not be able to get a 50/50 split BUT you clearly have done as much as you can to be present by reducing your hours, looking after her on your own etc...

You need to check what are your rights exactly, not to try and impose your wishes but because you will feel stronger and better able to deal with the situation if you DO know what are your rights (and your duties)

Secondly I have to say my first thought was also about PND re the anger. Certain there is something going on for her to have become so angry. Can you remember if it started after the birth or if it was there before already?

[DesperateDad123]

Thanks so much to everyone who has taken the time to reply. There's a lot of wisdom out there, and a lot of sense. I'm going to sign off from this now, thank you all again and wish you all the best.

[TinyTear]

I would ask her, if not to go to the GP, to do the Edinburgh test online for PND. That does sound like PND to me...

Also, did she get counselling for the miscarriage? the hospital should have offered. I know having a daughter after 3 mcs did bring up a host of emotions

[clenchthebuttocks]

Desperate it looks like your relationship has fallen into a pattern. You can try to change the dynamics by reacting differently yourself: calmly assertive, reassuring, giving her time to talk and be really listened to. Hopefully the knock-on effect would be a change in your DW.

I'm embarrassed I identify with her.

I would suggest she has low self-esteem originating from a young age, hence conflict with her mother. I wonder if her parents modelled a hostile type of relationship.

Postnatal depression is certainly a possibility, speak to health visitor. Or it could be a general depression sparked by having a baby and fearing she will have the same poor relationship with your daughter as her mother had with her. I'm sure she could have really benefitted from the support of her own mum but she sounds threatened by her interference and possible criticism? Also maybe by your mother? Mothers often really need the support of their own mums when they have a baby, maybe your DW is angry it is not available for her.

I would feel 'got at' if I felt both sets if parents and even friends were being unsupportive, real or imagined, and they were being involved to take sides. This may also be why she didn't want to continue with Relate. IMO she would be better off seeing a counsellor via her GP eventually to help her cope with what's eating away at her (I have experience of both).

Long term I would suggest an anger management course for your DW, but things will have to stabilise a lot before you raise the idea. Pick your moment well or ask a trusted go-between to suggest it in confidence. DW sounds quite isolated, partially through her own doing because of her mindset.

I think the last thing your situation needs is talk of splitting up. I think you need to be assertive, yes, but also give her regular reassurance that you want to stay together. You give away small signs you are not sure about the relationship lasting without realising and everything becomes jittery, always wondering if 'this is it, it's over'. I feel your DW is trying to push you away from lack of confidence in herself as a person and now a mother too. If any of this rings true I would try regular reassurance she is doing a great job as a mother and you love being a family together and are committed. The best gift is your time and attention. New mums and their babies often look like an exclusive unit (whereas before it was you and DW) but this phase does pass.

I'm sorry you get used as an emotional punchbag from being, like you say, the nearest person around. I speculate your DW has a lot of emotional baggage to work through & if you can give her space to talk and really listen it might help you understand the nature of the undercurrents in your relationship. I wish you all well.

[clenchthebuttocks]

The drive and determination you mention could be a defence mechanism, a toughness she has developed to protect herself from whatever it is she has had to handle in the past. DW does need to say what she has to say in a more measured way though.

I admire you trying your best. The time around having a baby is one of life's most stressful events. I am more optimistic than some other pps and hope you will find things getting easier in the next couple of years as your DD becomes gradually less needy of your DW. Are they getting to playgroups, baby swimming, baby music classes to build support networks of other parents?

[DesperateDad123]

Clenchthebuttocks (great user name!) - thanks*1000. A very kind and compassionate post and a very fair one. Food for thought.

[ILoveCoreyHaim]

Me and the ex separated after ending up together in a loveless relationship which was very strained and making everyone miserable including the 3 dcs

We parted ways 5 yr ago after I asked him to leave. It was hard at first but we share looking after the kids and they kids still see all my ex in laws. They sleep at their gps house most weekends. Everyone is am a cable, my dps and siblings still speak to him and vice versa.

I have friends who point blank refuse their in laws from seeing their DCS after a split and argue over pointless stuff. If I had gone down this route my dcs would have missed out on so much. It is hard but I think you just have to bite your tounge at times and look at the bigger picture. My kids holiday abroad every couple of years when they go away with his side of the family (always have large group of family on a holiday, 20+)


In laws will help me at the drop of a hat and sometimes I will call them before my family.

If you feel like it's at the point where the relationship is coming to an end and can't be fixed I think you just need to walk away and try and sort out access to the kids, obviously it's going to depend on what route your DW chooses. Will she try and work together to work something out to benefit the DC or will she be difficult. I have friends who are difficult so it does happen and imo it's the kids miss out because the adults can't put their feelings or anger to one side.

[ILoveCoreyHaim]

Ignore typos, bloody auto correct

[clenchthebuttocks]

HTH.

A further thought is your DW might be super anxious, with your having struggled to conceive and experienced a miscarriage and surgery in the process. A lot of anger is rooted in fear. She may have had a lot of anxiety over whether she would ever be a mother and now your DD is here she might be more anxious than most to keep your baby safe.

[alikat724]

DesperateDad I can say from experience that becoming a mother after an abusive childhood, incorporating a horrible relationship with my (toxic and evil) mother, was emotionally the hardest thing I've ever done. I was 38, so mature and had put years of counselling between me and my past and become successful personally and professionally, but yet it all came back tenfold when I had to process mothering, unconditional love, loss of my own childhood, fear of putting my beautiful DD in harm's way due to my own damaged past. I definitely took at least some of that out on my DH (although admittedly not to the extent your DW seems to be doing so on you) and our relationship suffered accordingly, along with all the normal stresses of having a newborn. Your DW's upbringing, struggles with her parents and fertility challenges are all key risk factors for PND and the rage/anger she is exhibiting leads me to agree with previous posters - alert a health visitor, this is something she needs outside support to bring her to awareness and hopefully help.

BTW, if she was previously a driven, successful career woman, as FatalCabbage said above, her options for returning to work or not are ALL SHIT. I know this might sound naive but I had no idea WHATSOEVER of the impact that having a baby would have on my previously very successful, stimulating, lucrative career. I completely lost my grip on something that had been a central tenet of my life and identity, and that was (and still is) a significant loss that I had not anticipated - and I am one of the very lucky ones, whose employer has been fantastic and flexible! If your DW's work dilemma is similar, do not underestimate how conflicted, angry and frustrated she will be by this. All while completely and utterly loving the child you so desperately wanted, and not wanting to change anything.... It is a confusing and disturbing dilemma, to say the least!

[3mum]

I agree with those who say it is very early days. Having your first child is so overwhelming there is often no space left for anyone outside the two of you. But that does change once babies become boisterous toddlers. Your DW sounds very stressed at the moment and there may well be a PND element, but it sounds as if forcing her to the doctor is not the answer. Frankly she is probably knackered and hormonal. I can remember having several screaming tantrums whilst I was on maternity leave and that is really not me normally.

The stakes are so high here though (i.e. your whole future family life) that I am in the same camp as Clench (I think). Set yourself a decent time frame (say 12 months) and aim to spend that time being supportive of your DW and praising her. Treat her as someone who is having a really hard time (because she is - she is not happy is she?) and give as much care to her (both emotional and physical) as you can. The fact she has no other strong family relationships to rely on makes it much harder for her and makes your role even more important. Certainly don't let her abuse you, but don't assume that the relationship is over either. It may be, it may not be. I think it is too soon to tell.

I am afraid this is where you have to be strong and supportive and loving and undemanding even if you feel none of those things. At the very least, if in a year's time you conclude that splitting is is the best for everyone, you will know that you did the very best you could to try and ensure that your family stayed together.

[ShoeWhore]

Wise words from clench

She sounds very much like me when I had PND I thought rowing with dh was making me miserable when in fact me being miserable was causing lots of rows. I honestly didn't realise I had PND (I kind of felt OK when I was out and about but felt crap at home, hence me blaming dh) then one day I mentioned to the HV that I was feeling a bit weird as it seemed to be escalating into feeling crap all the time. She was really lovely, talked to me for ages, did the questionnaire and it suggested I was really very depressed. Actually just knowing that helped both of us - dh could see there was a reason for my behaviour, I stopped blaming him for everything.

Becoming a parent changes your life so much, especially if you are the parent staying at home and feel like your old life has just disappeared.