How do you deal with passive aggressive behaviour?

[icanneverremember]

Particularly when it's outright denied such as:

"I don't look pissed off" when the other person clearly has a very grumpy expression and is sulking.

I have tried pointing out the passive aggression and saying things like "could you please lose the tone from your voice. I am trying to have a discussion with you but your tone is upsetting the children"
The response is met with even more passive aggression such as:
"You just can't let anyone be pissed off can you? Perfect Ican, you're always perfect aren't you? Yep, it's obviously just me, the problem's all me." (obviously said sarcastically, angrily and usually followed by stomping out of the room.

Any genuine advice on how to deal with this would be greatly appreciated as it's a recurring issue for us.

[Fairenuff]

You could try saying "I want to talk to you about x, when's a good time for you?" When you are about to talk, agree the ground rules. Tell him that you obviously aren't going to agree on everything all the time and that's ok, you just need to work out a way to listen to each and agree on compromises.

Tell him that when you talk it often (don't say always) goes off on a tangent and whilst that's ok, it doesn't really resolve the original problem. So, rules:

1. No shouting
   
2. No swearing
   
3. No sarcasm/insults
   
4. Say only what you mean and mean what you say
   
5. No storming off
   
6. If you need a break, say you need a break and come back to it after an agreed time
   
7. No aggressive actions - banging fists, slamming doors, etc.
   
8. No interrupting
   
9. Listen and respond to what the speaker actually said, not what you think they said
   
10. Don't blame
    
    Those are just a few for starters. Write them down, discuss them, agree them and then both sign them.
    
    When actually talking, it sometimes helps to go for a walk together so that you can walk side by side and talk at the same time. Being out in the open, with space around you and physically walking off your negative emotions can help.
    
    If all of that fails it may be that you cannot live together in harmony and might have to work towards an amicable separation.

[Rummikub]

Coupeles therapy?

Yeah I think I agree with previous poster about the milk interaction. It should have stopped as soon as he said he's happy to go. Fine off you go! Of that causes a problem, then there's something else going on.

[icanneverremember]

Rummikub - I did think about saying that (letting him go for the milk) but there were tworeasons why I didn't. 1- he was busy helping our neighbour remove some fencing and 2- he wasn't saying "I will go" he was saying "I don't mind going". I'm not sure but I get the feeling sometimes that this is some kind of test. That's the wrong way to describe it but not sure of the correct term. Another example is that he'll sometimes say"I'll put the kids to bed" and If I just say ok he gets a bit moody. If I say "oh, ok, thanks hun" then he's happy. IMO I shouldn't have to thank him for such a task! I have told him before that it feels as though he's testing my mood with some of these exchanges. If he gets the feeling he's not been pulling his weight he will ask "you ok?" frequently throughout the day and possibly comment that I seem grumpy (often when I genuinely have not been).

Fairenuff - that's really good advice. What should one do if any of the rules get broken though?

[icanneverremember]

FWIW, the milk conversation didn't really annoy me, I was just genuinely perplexed!

[Rummikub]

So he wants lots of praise for stuff that should just be done? Does he say thank you to you for putting the kids to bed?

My ex was like this, used to drive me up the wall. Looking back, maybe I should have said thank you? A small thing that would have made him happier. I probably say thank you now to my ex more than I ever did when we were together.

[icanneverremember]

Maybe I should just say thank you and get on with it but that does bug me. We both work full time but the default position is that childcare and housework are my remit. He says I just have to ask for help but I don't see why the responsibility to delegate should fall with me. As we have seen, the request for help isn't often well received, especially if I don't ask in the right tone of voice. That's when the "you ok?" and "you're so grumpy/stroppy" comments start. We've had this conversation many, many times and it almost always ends in him shouting and sulking for days.
It is very wearing, I won't deny but I'm sure I can be difficult to live with at times too. I don't want to give the impression that he's emotionally/verbally abusive. He has manybgood qualities I just wish we could communicate. I'm constantly worried about causing a massive sulk!

[doziedoozie]

Him " for God's sake, we've run out again?? That's ridiculous"

That is a wind up to start with as it's not really a statement, but more an angry 'why can't we get fing organised' or 'why can't you get fing organised' comment. But if you queried his annoyed tone you would get denial.

My DH does this but underlying it I think is the fact that he doesn't think he is appreciated. The fact that you do more and are in fact more deserving of being appreciated is irrelevant.

So you could start being extra nice to him and perhaps showing appreciation to see if the situation improves then you know what was bothering him.

Otherwise, I get more pissed off at his angry behavior, so am less 'nice' and he gets angrier, so a vicious circle.

[Fairenuff]

Fairenuff - that's really good advice. What should one do if any of the rules get broken though?

You stop the discussion and wait until you are both calm and then you talk about why the rule got broken - did someone lose their temper and swear? If so, they should apologise and agree to not do it again.

It takes time, you need to keep trying but don't flog a dead horse. He has to want it as much as you do.

Basically, you love each other so you should be kind to each other, not try to hurt or score points. You can accept each other's failings, provided that they hurt no-one.

Remember this. Every adult can control what they say (sn aside). We should not be rude, dismissive or aggressive to our loved ones just because we think they will excuse or accept it. We wouldn't talk to strangers like that, or our work colleagues, so we can control it.

How we talk to each other is a choice. Sometimes it is learned behaviour from our parents but we can change this.

We both work full time but the default position is that childcare and housework are my remit.

This needs to change. You should sit down together and make a list of absolutely everything that needs to be done to run a house. Making the list could take some time as it's surprising how much there is, from the house to the garden, the car and the children, insurances, paying taxes, researching holidays, etc. When you have the list, take it in turns to veto the jobs that you absolutely hate doing. If neither of you is happy to do it, you will have to find a way to pay someone else to do it.

So maybe you mow the lawn and he weeds, or you pay a gardener. You clean the bathrooms, he cleans the cooker, or you pay someone to do both. That sort of thing. Regarding childcare, don't forget to take turns doing the night shift if the children still wake, or if they are ill.

Try and free up enough time so that you each get equal 1) time to yourself, childfree, to do what you want 2) time as a couple, childfree to do something you both enjoy, and 3) time together as a family to do something the children will enjoy.

[Lanabelle]

I'd get in the car and bugger off, leave them to sulk like a petulant child - go have a good time and return with the biggest smile ever on your face

[wyrdyBird]

If you're always having to pre process what you say to him and the tone in which you say it, it sounds as if you have a problem which goes beyond interaction issues.

I have the feeling he does not want to listen to you, and is very ready to blame any problems on you. His aggressive and blaming response in your OP suggests he has no interest in communicating better with you, and you are doing all the work in that regard.

Why has all the housework / childcare become your remit? Did it start that way or did you just find yourself doing it over time?

[icanneverremember]

Thank you fairenuff , again that's really helpful and all taken on board.

When it comes to housework I'm quite happy to do the lion's share. We have discussed this at length in the past and I have made it clear that I actually enjoy cleaning. I am also very houseproud and have come to learn that it's not fair to expect him to do things the way I would want. Just because he makes the bed differently for example doesn't make it wrong.
I do however have an issue with being a general "fetcher and carrier". An example of this being that he has sat at the table with his parents who are visiting the last two nights and watched me clear the plates away after cooking.

He also seems to have issues with looking after the children by himself and it's fair to say that he feels hard done by as he often has them on his own for half days at the weekend while I work. When I am home it is just (and always has been) expected that I will do the kids' bath, bedtime, dinner, homework etc. If I want him to help with this it seems I must ask. Another example of this is during a family walk. He walked off ahead with his parents while I carried the youngest and cajoled the other two into hurrying up. The whole way. I want to talk to him about it and I will use fairenuff's suggestions but I'm really, really nervous about it!

[Rummikub]

Use 'I' statements rather than 'you'. So I feel this... When this.....

Think about what you want to achieve too. Also give him time to process and give him warning that you want to talk. Hope it goes well. A good couples therapist might be worth thinking about.

[Rummikub]

Fidelia how should someone interact with passive aggression?

[icanneverremember]

Yes, I do see what you mean about that conversation. In my defense though I know that it wouldn't have been well received if I had just announced that I was off down the shops. I felt that by opening with "one of us needs to go" gave him the opportunity to say that actually, he really wanted a bit of fresh air and he would quite like to go. Instead I got an annoyed response and an irritated sounding answer that he "doesn't mind going - implying he would be doing me a favour. I do see what you're saying though and can see how it could come across PA.

When it comes to staying calm and provoking the other to anger, I feel at a total loss. I use all my strength to stay calm in the face of verbal provocation (as in my op) and try my damndest NOT to provoke him. This does make him cross but what can I do? I refuse to yell like a banshee in front of my children and sometimes walking away isn't always possible eg I'm doing the ironing or he bloody well follows me!

[doziedoozie]

Perhaps your attempts to ease things along are making things worse.

It might be better to just come out and say what you want rather than pussy foot. On the walk you could have said will you take Xs hand or something. Or in fact Take X's hand because I can't manage.

With men you have to speak directly and not assume they will realize there is a problem.

He sounds left in the 1950s.

I think you should try just announcing you are off down the shops then deal with his response with 'did you mean to be so rude'. If he continues to become irritated and angry when you are direct and to the point then you probably need to leave counseling.

[wyrdyBird]

Ican, do you mean you had to start with a carefully worded
"One of us needs to go to the shop for milk"
..because your popping out for such a small errand would have caused a problem? You say it wouldn't have been well received.

[icanneverremember]

dozirdoozie saying something like "did you mean to be so rude" is a sure fire way of setting him off. He would have a major sulk over such a perceived attack on his behaviour. Anyway, he wouldn't have been outright rude he would have (and I go back to the PA description) huffed and tutted and possibly sulked at having had to look after the kids. If his behaviour is then pointed out in somecway he will just deny it and huff and sulk even more!
And what you say about not pussyfooting and expecting guesswork is also something I try to adhere to. If I particularly want to go to the shops then I will say "actually I'd quite like to go for the walk" but he never will. It's always "well I'm happy to"or "I don't mind" which leaves me guessing.
I totally agree that I probably make it worse though which is why I'm asking for advice.

Also, I would have asked him to help with the kids on the walk but he was so far ahead that I couldn't!

[icanneverremember]

wyrdybird Yes, I think he would have huffed. Well actually I think we might well have had the same conversation but with a different start!

[icanneverremember]

I think the milk thing just flummoxed me. My point was that we could sit there all day and both say "I don't mind going" but what I actually wanted was a decision and action. Hence me saying I am going. Which was met with more indecision...

[wyrdyBird]

Ican, I'm sure you're right about the same conversation with a different start. :(

Why would he huff about your popping out on an errand?

I'm getting the feeling you are used to having to gauge his likely response, and try hard to avoid a problem, over very small matters. In other words, walking on eggshells.

[gamerchick]

I really don't understand the milk thing..see milk has ran out, see husband is busy and just go and get some milk

I deal with a sulk the same way.. tell them to bugger off and come back when they're over it and go about my day. No tolerance for it at all.

[MrsCripps]

I agree with Fideline
Why would you announce that "one of us needs to get milk" if he is busy fixing a fence.
I wouldn't even wait to see his expression - it sounds as if you are so used to a negative reaction that you look for one.
I probably wouldn't even say anything other than " Just popping out for milk"
It sounds like he will find something wrong in every thing you do/say

[icanneverremember]

gamerchick I couldn't just go without saying something as he would have assumed I was looking after the dc.

wydrybird I think I am walking on eggshells, it's all well and good for the people who say just let him get on with it but it creates such a horrid atmosphere. I don't know, maybe I'm too sensitive with that sort of thing. If we have a minor disagreement (a tiff if you will) I will get over it pretty quickly and try and return to chatty conversation and cheerful mood. My attitude is that everyone bickers from time to time, we've both said our bit and now let's get on with our day. It's very hard, upsetting and demoralising when you're constantly being met with short, one worded answers.
I think the huff would have been because he had the children all morning while I was working and would then have had them another half hour while I popped out. I think he totally resents me working at the weekends and feels as if he is the only Dad with this extra "burden". I know I'm not making assumptions here - he has said as much in the past...

[wyrdyBird]

A horrible atmosphere shouldn't be happening - and especially not over such small matters.

I'm also puzzled why anyone would see running out of milk as cause for such huge irritation. And why it is 'ridiculous' to run out of milk.
If he's like this over small things, important matters must be a nightmare.

In a relaxed household you would hear

• 'we've run out of milk'
  

• 'oh ok I'll go and get some / keep an eye on the kids while you go.' And that would be it.
  

It must be exhausting to live with sulking and random aggression over little things. I don't think you're too sensitive.