I love my friends but I also feel angry and envious of her achievements...How to deal with my feelings?

[Falconi]

This is going to be long as I want to explain as much as I can.

Basically the year I arrived in the UK, I made friends with A. She had just arrived few months after me and I was supposed to give her training at work. We got on really well and became good friends.

I came to the UK in a bid to heal from my divorce. My xH who was very abusive, also a big time cheater and he left me for a 'friend' of ours.
I had no children and was still young, I needed a challenge blahblahblah to keep my mind occupied and carry on with my life.

It was probably too soon to be getting in new relationships but I started dating Q, also a work colleague, and was really into him. Everyone knew.
Specially A. I confided in her a lot.

Suddenly when I though everything was going great, Q went cold and decided to take time off and travel. He cut all contact with me whilst travelling and never replied to my emails. I was under the impression we were friends to say the least...we started our "relationship' as friends and he was the one who pursued me.

When he came back, him and A were together almost instantly. They never announced their commitment, but they were just closer and closer at work and you could smell and sense their chemistry. After while they were openly dating.
Obviously it hurt me a lot and for a while I was civil but kept my distance from them.

I then started going out with Dh. He was also a work colleague and I knew he was into me but I never gave him a chance as he didn't fit with my 'type'. But there came a time when I was so lonely and hurting, and he was there for me comforting and listening and treating me like the most important person in the world. And I felt I could trust him as I was having a hard time trusting people at that point. I gave him a chance and we started a relationship. I knew that Dh was more into me than I was into him. I was still confused with feelings for my xH and Q. I didn't know wether I want to stay in the UK or go back to my home country. I wasn't taking things so seriously...
Dh helped me enjoy myself again and get my confidence back. I became friends with A and Q again as a couple and we even became flat mates at one point. We also travelled together (although this was a big mistake).
There were few dramas in A and Q's relationship, I was always there supporting both (stupid emoticon). But I was happy with Dh and their relationship never bothered me anymore, they were just my friends.

Fast forward 8 years, A is no longer together with Q.

Q moved from the UK and we all lost contact with him.

A had a string of failed relationships but went on to become very successful in her career, whist I was sometimes a SAHM, sometimes a part timer and now self employed doing relatively well but not fulfilled. Dh is a lovely guy and a great father but he is quite laid back, has no formal qualifications and we scrape by. We have been through a lot of hardship.

Now the bit that I don't understand about myself are my feelings is the sudden envy and jealousy and 'anger' and 'unfairness' that I feel for A now a days.
A couple of years ago she met this guy who made her really happy. He is very nice, good looking, clever, high achiever and fun...(I have no feelings for him what so ever). He is the opposite of Dh and their relationship reminds me that Dh wasn't (isn't?) my type of guy...nor physically or even intellectually, although I appreciate many qualities in him.

A and her OH moved to a really nice place in a wonderful location, they had a beautiful baby, they are amazing parents. They buy or do anything on the click of their fingers (like going twice this year back to mine and A's home country, the travel that I saved for 6 years to be able to do, it is VERY expensive) just because they fancied it. Also travelling to another locations. Also buying lots of expensive goods all the time. They got engaged and she has a huge diamond ring, they are getting married, they are looking at more rings, dress, venue is sorted, there is going to be a big party, the whole shebang. And she still is a SAHM ffs.

Now, I am not envious of their money, although it would be nice not to have financial pressures, (I even struggled to feed myself when Dd was a breastfeeding baby and sometimes I couldn't afford a ice cream cone during the summer when she was a toddler), I think I am envious of the whole excitement and how easy she always had it when to me it was always been a massive struggle for everything.

I know it is childish and shallow, I feel awful, but it is hard to understand and deal with my feelings of being happy for her but envious at the same time...sometimes I even avoid her, just not to feel this way.

I just need to get this out. I have met her today.

[Falconi]

When I read about you being a 'fat, heavy baby' and that's why nobody picked you up, I wonder if the same might be your experience. As I wasn't there (to see you as a baby), I would draw the following conclusions: babies are supposed to be fat with folds/fat babies are of course, a bit heavier/babies used to be left to cry 'back then'; not necessarily the right thing to do, but people did it

Yes, but why was my grandma repeating this over and over again, that no one wanted to pick me up? Why keeping repeating it to a child? She just wanted to add that my Godparents (who were 15 and 13 years old, so children themselves) were the only people willing to give me any attention, and that is why they were chosen to baptise me!

I know it wasn't like this 100% of the time but why did Grandma kept going on and on? She was also the one who told me about my mum's abortion plans...and I was supposed to be her favourite grandchild!
But my mum hates her and they don't get on at all, so I wonder if she did this to get to my mum?

You say that your relationship with your parents isn't good. I'm so sorry. You might be able to address that with counselling and maybe confront them and get their reasons if you feel strong enough to do so?
My sister is trying to do this, she is going through a long process with therapy and medication...I don't think I want to confront them but definitely therapy will help.
My brother turned out an alcoholic.

It seems as if you were trying to rationalise the relationship between A&Q in order to preserve the friendship with both, but more so with A, as she's from your home country and female
Q disappeared , and A is the one who keeps getting in touch and arranging stuff. It is a bit tiresome being her friend as I want to keep it superficial and won't talk about deep personal stuff. I bet she feels the wall I put on but keeps trying to be in my life.

Take her friendship with a pinch of salt YY to this.

Now you are the adult who needs to pick up the baby you were from her cot and listen to her and be kind to her when she cries
Thanks!

[tiawalters]

It seems as if you were trying to rationalise the relationship between A&Q in order to preserve the friendship with both, but more so with A, as she's from your home country and female.

We try to rationalize the unacceptable or the outrageous, when we are starving from love and affection. It's like a trick our brain plays on us to keep things normal, though our instinct tells us something is wrong.

Falconi, this friend is not a good friend, and you probably know this at an instinct level. The fact that she's confident and self assured, and determined in getting what she wants doesn't make her any better. Take her friendship with a pinch of salt, or go NC altogether.

When our feelings are not respected or taken into account as children, we tend to attach ourselves to people who treat us the same, and we have a hard time listening and respecting our feelings too. Many of us have been there.

The fact that you wrote in here in a step forward to being aware and listening to your own feelings. As posters have said, they are valid, and you shouldn't feel ashamed of them, or trivialize them. Just listen to what they are trying to tell you. Now you are the adult who needs to pick up the baby you were from her cot and listen to her and be kind to her when she cries.

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726]

Yes Falconi but look how you've PROGRESSED and caused your daughter to THRIVE. Take the credit for that, would you please?

I think that you're guilty of doing the same thing that I did about a painful period in my life (as a just-teen). My mum, on one of the rare occasions that I confided in her recently, told me, "You're looking at yourself as a child now, with the eyes and experience of an adult, when you were that child you had the eyes and experience of a child and it looked different. You're remembering how you felt as a child, having judged and gauged everything as a CHILD. It's not accurate in grown-up translation". My mum isn't very tactful but I thought she might be right about that. When I read about you being a 'fat, heavy baby' and that's why nobody picked you up, I wonder if the same might be your experience. As I wasn't there (to see you as a baby), I would draw the following conclusions:

• babies are supposed to be fat with folds. :)
  
• fat babies are of course, a bit heavier.
  
• babies used to be left to cry 'back then'; not necessarily the right thing to do, but people did it.
  
  You suggest that your Dsis was the 'cute' one. I'd say that such a gap in age between you and your sister can lead to feelings of being usurped as the baby, jealousy of attention and resentment - not from you but from your Dsis. Could it be that your parents, whilst following the modern, of the time, let-the-baby-cry method, tried to 'make up' to your Dsis who was more able to articulate her feelings than you were?
  
  You say that your relationship with your parents isn't good. I'm so sorry. You might be able to address that with counselling and maybe confront them and get their reasons if you feel strong enough to do so?
  
  I'm absolutely convinced that what we experience in our early lives shapes what we become in our adult ones. It's important that we - for our own sakes - don't let feelings bubble up inside because they do damage. They need an outlet and they need to be acknowledged. We also have to apportion our experiences with the correct level of importance... that's the bit I find difficult to do. I could probably do with a bit of counselling myself maybe?
  
  Anyway, Falconi, what I'm trying to say - in a very long-winded way - is that you're not on your own and that I understand. :)

[Falconi]

I remember when I first tried to post in another forum about my childhood troubles - much more dark details than I shared here - and people telling me to get a grip because other people had it worse. You see, I never starved, I was educated privately, lived in very big houses and I wasn't bitten black and blue...
It just made me to shut up and put up with it, it confirmed to me that I should minimise it all.
Obviously people on that forum was very different from you, lovely MNetters.

Personally, I don't think I could have continued being friends with someone who becomes romantically involved with an ex partner, especially if you were really into that man. That was a betrayal from her. I know you were the bigger person for putting it behind, but still a big red flag as to her character
I was used to be cheated on... my xH did it with a friend and many women before the friend...also I could see they were more suited to each other (xH and friend and A&Q) so I thought, good on them, they probably deserve it, I don't deserve anything... I think there was also an element of pride, I didn't want to show A&Q that I was hurt, I wanted to be strong. I went to hell and back with my divorce not long before A and Q situation, so their crime didn't seem such a big deal iykwim.

As you said, what we usually envy is not the money, or the lifestyle, or this or that, it's more to do with people achieving exactly what they wanted and how they wanted it. Or your perception of them doing so
YY. Thinking about it now, A is very determined. She has a good self esteem and she thinks she is deserving an she can do anything. She has a lot of faith in herself. She is bubbly and outgoing. But she will always put herself first, she wouldn't bother hurting someone to get what she wants. The opposite of me really. Maybe that is why I admire her. She also has a very strong bond with her mum, so obviously her mum brought her up to believe in herself. I think this is a good thing (but obviously not stepping at people, however now A is older and wiser, and a mum, I think she is maturing a lot).

you say that she loves your daughter and has done since she was born. Does that irk you in some way? Put you under pressure to maintain a friendship, because of her love of your daughter, that you'd rather not? On a baser level, even though you rationalise that your daughter had everything she needed from you, all the important stuff, do you torture yourself with thoughts that A is a better mum - and would have been a better mum to your daughter than you are? If so, it's all nonsense of course, you know that, but it's disquieting to have intrusive and unwelcome thoughts
Oh yes, I never wanted to be a mum. I have to admit I didn't have a good surprise at first when I discovered I was pregnant. I also considered termination (something that my own mum also considered whilst pregnant with me but not my whilst pregnant with my siblings ).
I certainly didn't want to be a mum in the condition my life was at that time. But I accepted it and decided to be a good mum. I did not struggle with bonding or PND (God knows why not, since life was pretty grim back then) but not having basic material stuff and immigration problems on top of that (hence marriage with Dh) was a really strain on myself and my relationship with Dh. I needed lots of support and friends to keep me sane. A always wanted to be a mum and she had a much better role model than I did, so she always have being brilliant with kids. She is brilliant with Dd and has always been. And it is genuine. I didn't have enough love going on in my life (people tell tales of me crying for hours alone in the cot, in the bedroom, no one would pick me up, I was a fat heavy baby...and Dsis was 1 year old, such a cute phase .
So I welcome anyone who loves Dd iyswim.

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726]

Good afternoon Falconi, you've had a lot more posts now, I think they're very insightful. You should post as much as you want to, that's what the board is here for.

One thing has struck me about A... you say that she loves your daughter and has done since she was born. Does that irk you in some way? Put you under pressure to maintain a friendship, because of her love of your daughter, that you'd rather not? On a baser level, even though you rationalise that your daughter had everything she needed from you, all the important stuff, do you torture yourself with thoughts that A is a better mum - and would have been a better mum to your daughter than you are? If so, it's all nonsense of course, you know that, but it's disquieting to have intrusive and unwelcome thoughts.

I'm glad that you have decided that counselling will help you. To put your family's treatment of you in perspective and acknowledge what they are first of all. Hopefully you'll be able to see the way forward then, whether to put A in her proper place without the 'glamour' of her life clouding your view - or you'll let the friendship fizzle - or maybe even tell her once and for all how horrible her behaviour was with Q and that whilst you accept it's water under the bridge, it HURT you and that needs to be acknowledged.

You will not lose people who love you by pulling them up when they do things wrong, not those who love you - and those are the ones that matter.

Thinking of you today and hoping that you have a nice weekend with your daughter and husband.

[Sherlockholmes221b]

It sounds perfectly normal and natural to be jealous of A, hell I'm jealous of her and I don't even know her! We all have some friends who do better than us and some who do worse. (I have a friend who seems to be particularly bitter about her lot in life, and from the other side of the coin, it's not nice to feel someone whose friendship you cherish is waiting to indulge in a little schadenfreude when something goes wrong in your life.) It sounds like you've come to the realisation that A is not the problem here and I think from that point of view this thread has gone to the heart of the issue and I hope therapy helps you deal with the more complex problems you face.

[tiawalters]

OP, I think your post rings a bell with many women. I think female friendships are great in general but they're sometimes tinged with jealousy, competitiveness and envy, in various degrees and not always from day one or at the same time.

Personally, I don't think I could have continued being friends with someone who becomes romantically involved with an ex partner, especially if you were really into that man. That was a betrayal from her. I know you were the bigger person for putting it behind, but still a big red flag as to her character.

But that seems to be in the past, and coming to bother you a bit now because her life seems going to how she wanted it, and it's normal to feel a bit jealous of that. As you said, what we usually envy is not the money, or the lifestyle, or this or that, it's more to do with people achieving exactly what they wanted and how they wanted it. Or your perception of them doing so.

As posters have said, life is more complex than that, and we don't know what happens behind closed doors.

Try to focus on your life, OP, and your own achievements, which are many too, and you should be grateful and proud.

If this friend makes you feel bad about yourself, for whatever reason, try to distance yourself a bit. I don't think she is such a great person as she had no qualms about dating your ex.

I know losing friends is tough but once you set new boundaries, life goes on, and you meet new people, and you're more in peace with yourself because you don't feel any obligation towards people who are or have been a bit rubbish in the past.

Once you detox yourself of negative influences, you feel more in control of your life and feelings, and this in turn will make those jealous or envious feelings disappear and frazzle with time.

Count your blessings, OP, you have a dd. Enjoy her and your family. All best. Tia

[Falconi]

Good morning ladies.
I think that what hurt a lot is seeing her as a new mum and her baby having absolutely everything and more.
Takes me back to when Dd was a baby and I was in such a financial struggle. I will never recover from it, I dont think, even though I know a baby needs love, milk and lots of attention and Dd had this.
I am not jeaulos of her partner ir wedding or lifestyle, I just wish I didn't feel so financially vulnarable when I was PG and a new mum. But things are ok now and I think I coped well under the circunstances.

[tribpot]

This is your thread, OP. And I don't think anyone reading it would think you were wallowing in your minor difficulty when other people have it worse - quite the opposite. I think you are minimising what you've been through, the traumatic effect on you, and your right to process and have acknowledged the hurt that has been done to you.

Your job was probably to minimise and get on with things uncomplainingly as a child, presumably - because your siblings had extra needs. But that comes at a cost - and it seems to be putting other people's needs above your own, to your own detriment.

I think it will help you heal to acknowledge that your feelings are valid and should not be shunted to one side. You could start by telling A that you never really did get over the way she treated you; it wasn't the action of a friend and she's free to apologise if she wants the friendship to continue. I think you might see an interesting reaction to that.

[thecatfromjapan]

Falconi, it really is completely understandable to feel the need to talk these things through. It's also completely understandable to feel sad/angry about these things - they were terrible things to go through. Of course people go through worse - and we go through better, thank goodness - but that doesn't take anything away from the fact that these were unhappy experiences. I, personally, would never tell you you have to minimise all this, and just "pick yourself up" after it.

I completely agree with Tequila.

Good night. x

[TequilaMockingbirdy]

Don't feel bad and don't feel embarrassed.

I hope opening up a bit may have helped you and maybe opened some doors in regards to helping you deal with your thoughts and feelings to make you feel better.

If you want to talk more please come back tomorrow. Goodnight x

[Falconi]

Thank you ladies for listening and for the encouragement.
I didn't open this thread to talk about all this stuff and I feel bad because I know people go through worse.
I am lucky in many ways.

I think it is clear now that the problem isn't A or Q, they are just a small piece of the puzzle.
I am embarrassed, I wasn't planning to talk about anything but A.

Will go to sleep with lots to think about.
Good night.

[thecatfromjapan]

I felt really sad reading that, Falconi. It must have been painful at the time, and it must still cause you pain now.

Mn is great, and a great place to chat, to talk, find other people, and other views, but it probably can't give you the sustained attention, over time, that a therapeutic conversation could give you. I hope you do find someone to talk with - you deserve it: someone listening and responding without shutting you up or telling you you're wrong.

[Falconi]

My dH was not prepared to come and live with me in my home country. He begged me to stay. I lived already here for a while, it was easier all around. I had a childhood with money but not much love. I knew Dh would be a good dad. There was no way I would go back to my home country, to be a single mum around my toxic family. Dd deserved the right to have a dad and I wanted to create a family different from mine.
I was always honest and he knew all that. All my feelings. Everything. I nearly bought fake paperwork tbh.

[TequilaMockingbirdy]

Oh falconi :( I'm so sorry you were treated like that.

Please don't think you can never be passionate or lustful again, you can. There's no shame. I think you just need to work through some of this stuff you have hanging over you

You can be the person you want to be, you really can. You just might need a little bit of extra help.

Have you been to your GP? Have you looked into therapy? It could do you a world of good.

I hope you're feeling okay x

[Falconi]

thecatfromjapan here dome answers, on my phone now so apologies for the mess.
Not homesick. Been there last year. I don't like that place and I don't even like being around my family much.
I grew up with criticism, little sympathy, labelled as the black sheep. I was the middle child. I was healthy. My siblings needed a lot of care and my parents were troubled and selfish. There wasn't much left for me.

My family is kind of disappointed with me even though it is irrational. My siblings' life look better on paper but it really isn't. They refuse to acknowledge this because my role is to be the bad apple.

I will never be passionate and lust again. This just gets me into trouble.

My relationship with Dd is overall good. I wish I was more soft and naturally extremely lovely. But I am doing a good job not repeating my abusive/ neglectful parents and other members of the family, specially the unqualified nannies ( remember I didn't grow up in the UK) whose I spent most of my time with.

Yes I am going after some goals in my life right now although it is not exactly what I want because I never knew what I wanted in the first place.
Yesterday I just remember being criticised as a child for wanting to be a teacher, or nurse, or social worker or actress, or accountant or working in the advertisement industry. I actually did try some of the above as a teen with no support.
I think my wish is to be a whole new person tbh.
Yes I need therapy.

[TequilaMockingbirdy]

I'm really sorry your ex left you traumatised - that's awful. Do you think you have any issues that still need addressing? Would any sort of therapy help you do you think? Maybe it'd solve this jealousy too. I don't agree with the marriage thing because technically you used him, but I don't think now is the time or place to go into that.

I think maybe you're judging your DH a little bit harshly though, about his background etc. But maybe once you feel better yourself you'll be able to feel better about him?

I do think you'd benefit from talking about your feelings and the past, maybe to help you process it

[thecatfromjapan]

Uh oh. This is not really about A.

I think the story you are telling yourself (I am always hurt; I always fail; I am not living a "Real" life in this foreign country) has the potential to be really, really damaging.

[Falconi]

Cross post with thecatfromjapan.
Very interesting article. I will try to find it.

[Falconi]

I love him tequila. But I do struggle with romantic relationships since my xH, he left me traumatised. I basically got married again because of Dd as I needed to be in the UK and there wasn't another way since I had a baby and could not get a student visa (who would look after dd and pay for my studies?) nor a working visa (not senior enough at work to be sponsored). Having another marriage was not in my plans. I could happily just have a long term boyfriend but not another husband.
Also we had a lot of financial pressure in the past and I have had to drop my standarts a lot in order to be wirh him. Our backgrounds are just very different. And we both have to adjust to each other.
However all the other guys from the 'right' background and 'right' look always let me down and treat me badly (not only xH but a lot befire him). I think dH is the only one who loves me for real and I think we are content.
I am just too wounded.

[thecatfromjapan]

There was an interesting article in the Guardian the other day - the Anna Babiesi answers bit in the "Family" on Saturday section (I know I have her name wrong - the person sounded so similar to you. The answer suggested that the letter-writer sounded very sad about previous hurts in her life. Beneath her present unhappiness and confusion lay a great deal of unresolved pain about earlier unfair treatment (by other people; by life) that the writer had never been allowed to be vocal about. Her role in her family was to not moan and get on with things (there's a fine line there between being the not-moaner and the one who gets dumped on!!!) so the result was that she didn't allow herself to acknowledge her feelings of disappointment and hurt. She didn't expect those near her to listen or respond. She had taught herself not to give voice to those feelings even to herself.

I do think a lot of the earlier posters have said much that I might have suggested (that this might be prompted by you taking stock of your life, and is quite natural; that you have good things going for you; many other things) but I wonder if perhaps you also need to actually allow yourself to acknowledge how much it hurt when that xh hurt you; how bad you felt about Q; how let down you felt about A.

Throughout what you have written, I sense almost a fear about your closest relationships. Do you fear that you will never be truly loved? Do you fear that you can never truly love?

Or is it a fear that your life has gone "wrong" somehow, and that this is not the life you were meant to have?

Are you frightened that you never properly got over your xh? That your relationship with your h is not secure?

What is your relationship with your child/ren like?

Most importantly, your life is not fixed, it is in process. You are very young. Now is a good time to really ask yourself what you want, to not be passive, to be utterly honest about the things you want to grasp, keep, cherish, acquire. live by, or live towards - and start going after them. Your past is there for you to learn from, not to tie you by the ankle and drown you.

And, I know this will sound crazy, but are you also, perhaps, a little homesick for your home country?

[TequilaMockingbirdy]

It's natural to feel like this and I'm really sorry for you because you can't control it so it must be so hard.

One thing that struck me though was your relationship with your DH. Do you love him OP? Or do you think you've settled and are simply 'fond' of him?

[Falconi]

So true.
I think I was saw her making an effort to be in my life as a way of apologising without using the word sorry.

I do like a wedding but not sure if I want to go to hers.
The only problem having such a close relantionship is that I can't be myself around her like I once was. I will never be able to confide in her anymore nor want to hear anything more deep she has going on in her life.
I think I will keep it superficial and cold.

[tribpot]

Maybe she would like to be around you more. But what matters is what you want. You're not obliged to be friends with her. If her presence in your life doesn't enrich it, reduce it. You don't have to be friends with someone just because they want to be friends with you.

[Falconi]

Oh, and I forgave and forgot and was friends with them again because at that time, no one had kids and it was all about work and extra times at work, and socialising with work mates so pretty much all my friends were their friends and Dh's friends and we were all workmates.
I couldn't scape them.
Gave them the cold shoulder but after a while, I was happy with Dh so it was easier to let them in again.