Is this email abusive/ am I abusive?

[mayapapaya]

I am a regular poster but have changed my name for this. I am at a very difficult place in my marriage for many reasons. Some of the reasons are to do with job and family stress, and are beyond my control at the moment. The primary reason is that my husband thinks I am emotionally abusive.

The latest dispute is about whether this mail below is abusive. A bit of context. He had to unexpectedly travel for work and missed a v important event in DD's life. This is not the first time this has happened. I sent him this email because she was upset, and that got me upset:

"Can you pl arrange things with your boss so that you can DEFINITELY be here for the next event? FIX THIS. I'm sick of this."

I apologised for this "shouty" email later, but he says this is part of a longstanding pattern of abuse, which I can't recognise. I don't see that this email is all that terrible, though I recognise I should not have sent it because there is not much he can do abt the demands of the job at the moment.

I am the first to admit that I have a short temper. I have gone to counselling to try and fix it. I think I have now got my outbursts down to say three or four times a year. I try very hard, but sometimes the stress from other parts of our life spills over. My husband says I should find other ways of coping and not take it out on him. I agree. I find this easier said than done though. When I say I get angry, there is no namecalling/ no fighting in front of the children/no physical abuse. Just me losing my temper like above/sometimes speaking in a nasty tone, and so on.

My idea of marriage is that if one person occasionally blows up, the other person should forgive them if they apologise. I'd do the same with him. However, he is the type of person who stays mostly calm and then has a big blowup once a year or so. I should also mention that he hates confrontation in most areas of his life. He likes pleasant interactions everywhere; but this is something I find unviable in family life.

He is now so furious that he wants to cancel our family holiday because he does not want to go anywhere with me. He has also said really hurtful things, such as "You have been the cause of most of my unhappiness in the past few years." I really don't know what to do now. I have apologised, but he won't accept an apology. Please help.

[nuzzlepad]

He is now so furious that he wants to cancel our family holiday because he does not want to go anywhere with me.

Sounds like he wants some space at the moment.

I just don't get why people say if one person is calm and the other is more subject to temper, it is easier for the calmer party to control their temper. OP you mentioned you have issues and have had counseling, but how do you know it's easier for your husband and that he simply doesn't say those things through effort?

My mother is exactly like you in that she has nasty blow offs, and says hurtful things designed to not solve anything, but to express her state at the moment and push the other people off the edge to make them experience what she is feeling. She also says she can't help expressing herself and that she tries so hard to hold back. Turns out I am the one between the two of us who is entitled -if there is such thing- to be more shouty and more prone to losing temper. When we visited hospital the doctor said I should be a lot more anxious and hysteric based on my blood test. My mother just replied 'oh, that's how she is. She is the calmer one.' Um, no. It's not easy to be calm. But I do it because I have to.

If you aren't reacting the same to everyone else maybe you feel entitled you could be more rude to him. I agree with the poster previous who walked out on their DH who put them on edge and whose DH came back and never blew off like that again. You do it because you think you can get away with it with him.

[EverythingCounts]

No-one is in a position to say to another poster here 'Your opinion is worthless' or 'Your thoughts are unwelcome'. So whether or not it is against regulations - and we will find out, because I have reported the post - then ALittleStranger, I reckon you ought to wind your neck in. Rainbow expressed an opinion and it's as valid as those that see the situation differently.

I am also of the opinion, like LoonvanBoom and Fatnotfit, that this is a complex situation where it is very difficult to see both sides and where I would be wary of immediately assuming that the OP's husband is a victim of abuse and as such blameless. His reaction, reported by the OP, to her coming home and talking about her therapy was belittling and arguably as abusive as effectively 'shouting' by email. And I don't like the 'You are the cause of my unhappiness' line at all. That is someone trying to shift responsibility for his feelings.

What's also telling for me is that he makes threats which seem designed to upset the OP but doesn't talk seriously about leaving (unless I am missing something - please tell me if I have). That suggests to me that this is all designed to guilt-trip rather than being a genuine expression of deep unhappiness at the OP's hands.

There's also ben lots said about this being possibly the 'last straw' for him after many outbursts from the OP. What about this sudden trip away suddenly being the 'last straw' for the OP? This again is where we need some context. I can see why the OP might want to withhold details but I would be interested to know what his job was, what the event was, an exactly how difficult it would have been to say to his boss 'Sorry, but I really can't this time, as I have been promising my daughter I'd go to her XXX thing and I've missed two already for work. I can't let her down again, so you'll need to ask someone else'.

[Davidhasselhoffstoecheese]

Ive had to work on this too. When you write an email, read it a second time and ask yourself is there a nicer way of phrasing things. Don't press send immediately, sleep on it!

Instead of your angry email maybe try 'we both really missed you tonight at the xxx. You would have been so proud of DD. Any chance you could keep xxx date clear for the next event. Lol'

[SerenaBracken]

ALittleStranger Sun 16-Feb-14 10:46:56



Rainbow with all due respect your opinion is worthless. Many people wouldn't tolerate the kind of relationship that you think is healthy. If the OP's DH is among them then your thoughts are unwelcome.

You remind me of the type of women who take offence at other women bringing sexual harassment claims because they always put up with unwanted touching from the boss.


You seem to have some kind of hang up/sexual chip.
Not only do you accuse Rainbow of ignoring her bosses' unwelcome attention, but on another thread you accused me of being "in love" with the ex boyfriend of my daughter who is 44 years my junior.

I think you need to address your problem.

[Lweji]

It could be a number of things, yes.

But about emotional defensiveness, I think this thread is full of it in all directions.
Not sure about travelling, but I may come from one where unfounded and unjust accusations were bandied about, and apologies, if they came, were late and too little, considering the background.

I can see how the OH could be abusive himself, though.

I just hope they have sorted it out meanwhile.

[NumptyNameChange]

and for all we know - which is very, very little actually - this is an affair script.

[NumptyNameChange]

i'd like to understand further what conclusions the counsellor came to and how her husband reacted - whether it was more anger and dismissal like the time the OP has described.

i think part of the level of personal emotional defensiveness on this thread may be coming from people who have to be away from home a lot for work therefore are immediately identifying with the husband and defending him maybe through defensiveness over their own choices.

[scallopsrgreat]

And why threaten to cancel the entire holiday instead of just taking himself out of the equation. I can totally understand not wanting to go on holiday with someone you are angry with. But that, the stonewalling, the sulking (a pattern of behaviour outlined by the OP) just smacks of him wanting to punish her.

[scallopsrgreat]

He is belittling. She isn't.

Just because it's work that takes him away it doesn't make it any less frustrating and their DD couldn't care less what the excuse is.

However this, as the OP says is not about one email. It is a pattern of behaviour. From him as well as her.

[Lweji]

But she doesn't talk to him badly even when she loses her temper

What do you class as talking badly? Only name calling? Or using swear words?

It doesn't seem like he does either.

The OP got hurt when he said she had been the cause of most of his unhappiness. Is that talking badly?

Going on holidays can be stressing at the best of times. With someone you are hurt with can be horrible.

[Lweji]

But it is his work that requires him to be away and admittedly he can't control it.
The OP herself didn't say he could chose not to go on those trips.

[scallopsrgreat]

But she doesn't talk to him badly even when she loses her temper VeryStressedMum

[scallopsrgreat]

Well I guess that was a bit of a last straw for her too Lweji. A build up of family coming off second best. Or is he the only one allowed to have a last straw? He seems to be allowed to go off in a sulk for days and threaten to cancel holidays as part of his last straw and she isn't allowed a snippy email?

[VeryStressedMum]

He didn't call you abusive from just one email, this type of thing has happened before and your behaviour must be quite bad if you've had to seek counselling for it. It's the accumulation of outbursts and how you talk to him that is the issue.

[Lweji]

She sounds like someone reacting to abuse.

What was the abuse that led to the e-mail?

[Lweji]

I also didn't say your opinion was worthless, I just pointed out that it was what Stranger had said.

From previous reports, considering someone's opinion's worthless is not against MN regulations. Personally, I wouldn't say anything like this. I actually don't think people's opinions are worthless.

What I didn't like, Rainbow, was the way you were changing what people actually had said. If we are to discuss a subject, it is important that we actually refer to what has been said.

But I did agree and will point out again that just because you or anyone else thinks something is normal to them and someone else should just get on with it, it doesn't mean that it has to apply to all.
We cannot judge the OH's reaction without knowing the background. And cannot expect him to be the better person and not expect it from the OP as well.

For all the victims of abuse out there, it is important that we don't say that they just have to put up with nasty outbursts. That they have to react appropriately and be the bigger person. Even if the recipient of the outburst is a man.
(this in no way says that the OP is abusing her OH)

[scallopsrgreat]

I'm with LoonvanBoom and Fatnotfit. There are a number of red flags here are they are all on the DH's side. The sulking, stonewalling, cancelling the holiday, the belittling. The OP has said she doesn't belittle or name call or is particularly verbally abusive. And the examples she has given lends credence to that.

He sounds like someone who doesn't want to be disagreed with. She sounds like someone reacting to abuse.

[rainbowsmiles]

Lwej why are you continuing to insult me. I don't respect or like your opinion. I consider your reading of strangers post to be wrong albeit unsurprising.

I have offered my opinion. I am sorry you consider it worthless but find it strange you want to engage and seek any more of my thoughts. Most confusing.

Enjoy the rest of your day. I hope the OP has been helped by the various views and discussions.

[NotJustACigar]

Calling someone's opinion worthless is over the line on mumsnet I think. One persons opinion here has no more and no less intrinsic "worth" than anyone else's. Some things may resonate more with each of us due to our own personalities, backgrounds, etc but no ones input is worthless even if we don't agree with it. At the very least an opinion we disagree with has worth as it gives an input into how other people think which is always useful in understanding and getting along with people in real life.

I don't happen to live my life the way rainbowsmiles describes but I know people who do. For example a friend of mine from Cuba and her partner are seemingly forever shouting at and arguing with each other. She tells me it's cultural for them. Well, that may well be the case, but even between people of the same culture there are obviously clear differences in the amount of arguing and fighting that's acceptable.

The point of the thread I think has to be not on whose style is right or wrong bit whether the OP wants to save her marriage. If so then a serious attempt to get into counselling with her husband is I think the only chance. The husband has at least one foot out the door and while we sit around arguing who is right or wrong (and the OP debates the same in her head) he will have already bolted!

[Pagwatch]

Massive own goal...

[JohnFarleysRuskin]

Don't shout ;)

[Pagwatch]

Hopefully the OP now has a full range of views to contemplate.
[pollyanna]

Good luck OP.
shout if I can help at all.

[Lweji]

I certainly wouldn't want to be your OH if this is how you carry out arguments at home.