Selfish??

[hippoesque]

When I met my partner I was young and had no definite idea's about marriage, children etc.

I fell pregnant with unplanned DC whilst at uni and dropped out and we had a second planned DC a few years later.

So in the last 8 years we have had 2 children, bought 2 houses, survived extreme extended family bereavements and built a fairly nice little life together.

The problem is marriage. I have been ready for the last three years, he, I assume, is not. I've tried talking to him to find out if he wants to do it traditionally (proposal) or if we can just go ahead and do it seeing as we've done everything else. I'm getting nowhere!! I couldn't even tell you if it's a priority for him. He always fobs me off with vague allusions that he'll get round to it.
I can't help but think that if he doesn't want to do it now then he'll probably never want to.
Both of our children have his name and he has all the benefits of 'married life' so why rock the boat I guess?
Would I be selfish to wait until the NY and just start again on my own? He is fully aware that I'm at breaking point with this so it's not like I'm springing it on him. I just can't live with him for the rest of my life when he doesn't care that I'm so upset to be continually put off.
I didn't realise that it would be a deal breaker for me but equally he gave me no reason to believe that he was against marriage/marrying me/whatever the fuck his problem is.
Arghhhhh! Any opinions would be appreciated.

[LadyInDisguise]

Yes I agree that I am uncomfortable with the idea that he is looking after himself and his assets very well and expect you to go along with it but doesn't want to make a similar effort for you.

I can understand he wants to protect his inheritance but have you done the same to protect the savings you have put in too? Why would I not be surprised if you haven't?
That means that if he was to die, you wouldn't have a house to leave in. If you want to get divorce, you still don't have a house to live in. And on the top. you would give him half of your savings....

Once again, saying that you don't want to get married and explaining why is one thing. But not saying anything and just fobbing you off is another. Especially when tis is an issue that IS very sensitive to you, proven by your very physical reaction to it. He HAS to be happy to talk about it and say why. That's the least he can do.

[CailinDana]

I am really surprised that some posters are telling you marriage won't make a difference. To SAHM it makes a massive difference, in fact I think any SAHM who isn't married is nuts. As others have said if he walked off tomorrow or died in the eyes of the law there would be no connection between you beyond the children. He could force the sale of the house and walk off with a large portion of your savings while having his own inheritance protected. If god forbid he was critically ill his parents could override your decisions and claim his property as theirs. Basically apart from the ability to claim maintenance for the childrrn you have no more rights than a housemate. You have given up your career but have no security - it's a very precarious position to be in.
The worst thing IMO is that he won't give you a straight answer. If he outright said no you would at least know where you stand but at the moment he's just stringing you along. It's cruel.

[Jan45]

So he continues to climb the career ladder whilst you have to languish at home looking after the children, unable to forge the same sort of career for yourself and what does he give you in return, no financial security whatsoever.

You don't have to be married for him to legally make the home yours should anything happen to him, I can't believe folk are saying marriage won't make a difference, it will make a HUGE difference, and not just for your emotional stability.

[TalkativeJim]

Agree with Cailin.

Any SAHM who is voluntarily screwing up her pension accruement, employment history and earning potential without the protection of marriage is NUTS.

Yes, issue that ultimatum... and in the meantime inform him that you will be looking for work as soon as possible, and that he had better start budgeting for 50% of childcare costs as well as making up the shortfall in his 'half' of domestic tasks that you currently cover.

I mean, after all - what the hell does he think you are - some kind of 'wife'?

[hippoesque]

We have mirror wills and life insurance policies that name each other so that aside is not an issue. As I had children young I haven't got a career but going back to education is the plan when my youngest starts school. He hasn't really got any family left so that is also contributing to why I feel guilty I think.

[CailinDana]

What do you feel guilty about?

[Jan45]

Guilty for what? Wanting to spend the rest of your life with the man you've had two babies with, seriously?

[Jan45]

Yeah and does the Will include his inheritance passes to you on his death, no, because that is why he got the minute of agreement separating his inheritance from you, if I'm reading this right.

[hippoesque]

I feel guilty that we are his family and he's happy with the way things are I can't seem to be able to get to a place where it is enough for me too.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Mirror wills etc do not even begin to address the nightmare that faces you if he dies suddenly. You are still in a very poor legal position regardless if he was to die suddenly. You could still not open Letters of Administration, choose his headstone and receive a widows allowance (currently around £80 a week) from the government simply because you are not married.

Does he actually want you to go back to work (has that been discussed?) or will he try and guilt you into not doing so?. Your own pension and career prospects are being affected markedly.

If anyone should feel guilty here it is him for stringing you along for so long with vague promises. He will still be making them in any number of years time. But I have to look at you as well; you have allowed all this to happen to you.

[hippoesque]

If he were to die then I would receive his inheritance amount as I would be the sole owner of our property. If we were to split, married or not, then it gets taken out of the pot then we would divide the rest.

[Jan45]

You shouldn't have to and probably can't change your view and morals, this is why you prefer to be married, esp having two children, if he can't understand that then he's really no good for you - if you were good enough to have two babies with then does that not mean you both want to spend the rest of your lives together, I assume the answer from both of you is yes, getting married shouldn't change that, it should strengthen it, do you really want to be calling yourself his girlfriend or partner when your kids are teenagers?

It's him who is the commitment phobic, not you, tell him it's a deal breaker for you, if he truly loves you, he shouldn't see getting married as a terrible thing, quite the opposite, it's common sense.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I guess as well that you signed all the legal documents re his inheritance without seeking your own independent legal advice beforehand. If you have indeed done that then you were naïve to do so.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

"If we were to split, married or not, then it gets taken out of the pot then we would divide the rest".

No, you are still treated as separate individuals if you are unmarried. What is his is his and what is yours is yours. It becomes very complicated if he dies because apart from dealing with your own grief, you are also dealing with the financials. You also signed a document to the effect that you were not to go after any of his inheritance in the event of separation.

[hippoesque]

I signed it because if I didn't it would have seemed that I was after his money, I'd never want to come across as grabby. I did seek my own legal advice on the matter and the consensus was that if I was happy to leave the relationship with what I came in with then signing wasn't really an issue.

[Jan45]

OP, you have an answer for every financial pitfall mentioned, seriously did you not wonder yourself when he said he wanted a Minute of Agreement set up to protect his assets, when you already had two children together - there was your first indication of his real intentions.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

At least you sought your own legal advice which is a good thing.

He is still in a far better position though than yourself as a SAHM.

You still need to establish his proper reasons for not wanting to marry or does he really not want to marry YOU. Are you to him the "she will do for now" woman?. It is still unfair of him regardless to have strung you along without giving you any real reason for his prevarication.

A difficult but honest conversation with him is necessary.

[hippoesque]

I'm not concerned about the money side that's why. I want to marry for love not because of what I can gain financially.

[Jan45]

Two kids to look after and you are not concerned about the financial side, you should be, for their sakes.

I am sorry but I don't think he is interested in getting married, from what you have written above.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Marriage is a deal breaker for you, you have come to realise that this man for whatever reasons does not want to marry or even worse the possible realisation that he does not want to marry you. What are you really to him, that is what I'd be asking this man now.

[LadyInDisguise]

hippo YOU want to get married for the love. But from what you say, he hadn't said why he doesn't want to get married. Until he tells you, you will have to
Either think he is like you and will marry for love. And then where is that leaving you?
Or you think his reasons for marrying or not are different and then what? What are these reasons that means he can't do that thing for you when it means so much to you. I mean you are feeling guilty, you think you are selfish for wanting a marriage. Why when he hasn't bothered to explain why he doesn't see that as a good thing (and in my book it would have to be very good reasons seeing he knows how important it is for you).
Which leaves me wondering. Is he do scared to tell you or is it that the reasons aren't ones he can tell you?

[DontmindifIdo]

I would sit him down and ask if he would like to get married, it's a yes or no quesiton, no vage answers, if he starts waffling, tell him you want a yes or no answer. If it's yes, then great, you will book a registary office for the new year and you can start getting things sorted, unless he wants to do a big wedding, and if so, can you afford it and it still would need to happen within 2014. If it's no, he should give you an explaination. If his explaination is basically "we're fine as we are" - point out that no you're not, you aren't happy being unmarried and he knows that, so you'd like to hear the real reason. If it's 'just a bit of paper' then there's no reason not to do it, if it's 'too expensive' - it can be less than £200, less than one month's worth of widow's pension.

The fact he wanted to protect his inheritance when you bought a property after having 2DCs together is very worrying, where does he htink you and his children would live if you split up? Would he think it was reasonable to throw you all out so he could protect his inheritance?

[hippoesque]

I really never saw it as 'protecting his assets' Fuck knows what I did think he was doing it for though. I've never even thought to question it but with these reactions maybe I've been wilfully blind.
I'm happy to sit through the next couple of weeks, children and Christmas will provide a great distraction. Come Jan 1st we will be having that conversation, no ultimatums or deadlines just an honest and frank discussion about what his problem is and if we have a future if we can't reach a happy compromise. Wish me luck!

[oscarwilde]

You could propose at NY ?

[hippoesque]

Ahhhh tried that at Leap Year. Is there an emoji for lead balloon?