How do I forgive,

[persephone2013]

Some years ago I posted here about my dh whom I suspected of having multiple inappropriate relationships with several of his colleagues. He always denied and made me feel I was going mad. However, eventually the truth came out. Even faced with the e-mails he tried to deny, but was eventually obliged to concede. It seems he needed the excitement of these relationships which I am fairly sure fell short of sexual intercourse. I suspect too that he did not discuss our relationship. I think he pretended to be single. He claimed he was a good husband as he provided well financially. He thought that what I did not know would not hurt me. He is a person who needs constant stimulation and variety at all times. Most things bore him quickly, I fear that includes me. However he is kind to me in most other respects. MH was enormously supportive, but told me to LTB. Relate feared he would never really change and gently suggested I leave him. Worn down by years of the situation and with compromised health, I was too fragile to lose not only the marriage, but all our lovely couples based social life, our couples based hobbies, our couples based holidays, my home, my standard of living , the base we provided for our adult children etc... It was suggested both by Relate and MH that I rebuild my own life. This I have done. I have my own friends, a part-time job, hobbies etc. I was even able to ask my dh how he would feel if I behaved as he did. I asked him why only one of us could have inappropriate relationships. He was horrified at the prospect. He has certainly scaled down his behaviour. He would say stopped. Frankly I no longer much care. I am not so afraid of losing everything although I do not welcome it. However, I do feel resentment and bitterness and often react unkindly and irritably to him. I hate the way I sometimes react. I dislike what I find myself saying. How do you forgive? I am unlikely to forget, but I want to forgive, or at least not react in the way that I do.

[FloWhite]

Oh OP, it doesn't have to be the way you think it would if you leave the marriage.

My social life actually got better after I left, I was invited to more events, our mutual friends were hugely supportive of me, my depression disappeared……and it was HIM who lost the social life, HIM who lost the support, HIM who became depressed after the truth came out. There's no reason why you shouldn't have the same - I'm nothing special.

TBH I wish someone had jumped off the fence whilst I was trying to forgive and told me what your friend told you because I'd not have wasted a second more of my precious time and emotional well-being on a man who did what he did - because he felt entitled to.

[EirikurNoromaour]

You're hurt by your friend's admission because you are hurt at his behaviour. You have deflected this hurt onto your friend because you can't handle dealing with your hurt and anger at him. That's because you are suppressing your feelings in order to maintain your nice/sham life. It's a horrible way to live.

[persephone2013]

I am taking on board all that has been said. However the distress of my eldest child still concerns me. A split would devastate many people. But you have all made me think. The message is unanimous.

[sisterofmercy]

Your friend could not have told you straight away for fear of not being believed. Once she realised you knew what he was like, she told you straight away - which to me sounds like she cared about your feelings. You couldn't face it at the time because it still hurt too much but perhaps as time passes you could forgive her for hurting you inadvertently.

Did you marry quite young? You sound like you never had the chance to develop your own judgements of people and relied on your husband a bit too much. It's good that you sound pretty open minded about people here think about the situation. You are making your own judgements now. You have plenty of time to think about things and consider what to do.

[persephone2013]

I was brought up to forgive others and if possible always see the best in people. It has not served me well.

[TheFutureSupremeRulersMum]

What did your eldest child actually say to you when you discussed it with them? How do you think your other children would react?

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

Forgiveness and seeing the best in others are great qualities... to a point. But when you still forgive and still see the best in other when a) they hold you in contempt and b) they do not show remorse, then all you achieve is a reduction in your self-respect, a great deal of personal suffering and a lingering feeling of being extremely hard done by. In short, you feel like a fool.

You've dodged saying how old you are (which is fine :) ). How old is your eldest DC?

[CailinDana]

I think you were actually brought up to believe men are more important than qomen. Why else would you be angry at your friend rather than your husband and feel guilty when you've done nothing wrong? Why would you allow your husband to treat you like you're nothing?

You say a split would hurt many people. Do you feel ok with giving up your happiness for them? Would they thank you for doing that?

[CailinDana]

Sorry that should say "men are more important than women"

[FloWhite]

Forgiveness and calling time on someone are not mutually exclusive positions to take though. For me forgiveness is about not feeling angry any more with someone who has wronged me - and I can do that whilst walking away. So can you.

[persephone2013]

Not dodging personal information Cognito, just hoping not to be recognised. It is even possible my dh reads this. I am however, a grandmother looking forward to a bus pass.

[itwillgetbettersoon]

Until he says sorry and displays the right behaviour how can you forgive him. I don't think you can. He has worn you down to accept his completely disrespectful behaviour. If someone doesn't treat you with respect, how can you forgive - it just doesn't work.

Why don't you have a trial separation. Say six weeks and see how you feel when he isn't around. I bet your friends will rally round and you will surprise yourself. I'm late 40s and just starting out on my own again - it isn't that bad.

[persephone2013]

Thefuturesupremerulersmum, my eldest child was very upset. Sad for me and for my dh, who has been a devoted and fun father. (He is still a feckless child himself in some ways). My adult child doesn't want either of us hurt or lonely, thinking neither of us would cope with major upheavals or cope separated. There are now health issues too. Once I stopped talking about it, because it caused such discomfort, it was never raised again.

[TheFutureSupremeRulersMum]

Whilst I'm your your eldest wants the best for you both it is not fair of them to impose what they think is right on you. Cailin raises some very valid points. Do you think your eldest (and your other children) genuinely understand how unhappy you are and would they want you to put aside your happiness for their sakes?

[CailinDana]

Your child cannot in any way be objective about this. Talking to him/her about it isn't advisable because he/she is far too emotionally invested.

[Joysmum]

If he doesn't see what he's done as wrong then there's no reason not to do it again and again.

There's a big difference between making a mistake and being sorry and not seeing the problem in the first place.

[cupcake78]

A few things spring to my mind. Firstly did you watch the channel 4 programme on psychopaths because your dh ticks all the boxes!

Secondly he's paying you to stay with him so he doesn't have to go through another divorce. He's not financially supporting you because he cares about you its to protect himself not you!

Thirdly it's not the infidelity that's the main issue. It's the fact he simply doesn't care that he's hurt you. He doesn't see you as an equal op.

Fourth your self esteem is getting such a battering! You are worth treating like gold. Your feelings should be treated like crystal. You should be loved, honoured and most of all respected. Your dh does none of these things. It's all about him.

You can't forgive him op because he doesn't deserve forgiving! He hasn't proven he won't hurt you again. Its self protection. If you don't forgive him he can never hurt you as badly again.

I find your situation very sad and hope you realise how much better than him you are. How much your life is precious and how you deserve to be loved, protected and treasured by someone who loves you.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

If you're coming up to 60 your eldest must be at least in their twenties. I'm sure they don't want anyone hurt or lonely... who would?... but it's really not her decision.

[WigWearer]

It's friends you need, OP. Your DC are not necessarily the best people to talk to about this. Many adult DC prefer the status quo when it comes to their parents.

Please treat yourself well, and reach out to other people. Build yourself some support. You really do deserve a happy life - and you can have one. Soon! But he has to go.

Good luck

[persephone2013]

I'm genuinely shocked at the strength of your unanimous views. Apart from wanting to stop being bitter, I thought I was now happy.

I agree that involving my child was a mistake which I now regret. Children, even adult children who have made their own mistakes too, just don't want to hear of their parents' problems. Telling both my friend and my child proved mistaken. It didn't help, I wished I had kept matters to myself apart from MNetters who were brilliant.

I'm not sure my dh does not care that he has hurt me. I think it did not occur to him that it would, (shallow?) as he believed I would not find out. Besides, anything he does short of intercourse, he felt fell short of infidelity. When I put it to him that that meant I could behave as he had done, I think he began to realise the extent of his betrayal. I think he refuses to discuss it as he always avoids confrontations. His childhood was peppered with unpleasant confrontations, he says.

Surprisingly, my child asked me if I had seen the programme on psychopaths. I have not and wish I had. Please tell me what boxes my dh appears to tick.

You guys stun me with your willingness to offer help.

[cupcake78]

There are many psychopathic traits and everyone is on a scale. Some more extreme than others. They are basically inter species predators. So they prey (play games) with other humans with little or no sense of remorse.

They include

No or little guilt.
Unable to empathise or sympathise.
Selfish ruthless behaviour (unable to put others first).
Grandiosity.
What is described as a deadened heart.
Risk takers and thrill seekers.
Black and white thinking.
Do and say things to simply get a reaction.
Don't feel as much as most people.
Will do anything necessary to survive/get what they want.

It might be worth a look op!

[cupcake78]

As well as an ability to be incredible charming and captivating. They can turn this on and off like a switch. They are very alert.

[CailinDana]

As you see it, it's not that your husband doesn't care about your feelings, it's that it didn't even occur to him to consider your feelings in the first place. So would you agree that as I said earlier you're pretty much irrelevant to him?

[lookingfoxy]

Hi OP.
I think you could deal with this one of 2 ways.
Either you could accept your marriage and husband for the reality you now know it to be and remain as friends and companions to each other, if you want to do this I think you will need to grieve for what you thought you had and be able to move on from it.

Its obviously eating you up whats happened and will continue to which you have said yourself is making you angry and bitter and for your own sanity you will need to eventually leave your dh.

sorry if very concise but trying to type on a tablet is not my thing.

[persephone2013]

CailinDana, you may well be right, but that's not quite as I see it. To me it seems he had considered the possible effect on me, but had decided there would be no effect on my feelings as I would not find out. He was wrong.

lookingfoxy, Yes that it exactly where I am. We are companions/friends/parents/grandparents. Because I have rebuilt my life, and it is now full and enjoyable (thanks to advice received on MN and from Relate) I was hoping to continue as I am, BUT to learn to accept dh as he is and not react in a shrewish manner to him. Which is something I do, particularly after a glass of wine. I like my current life, but I don't like the person I sometimes become towards him. I'm not unkind to anyone else. His behaviour, probably now all in the past, has turned me into someone I don't want to be. That is only at times of course, not all the time. I was originally seeking advice on how to overcome that. However I am grateful for all replies. I probably should have left him on discovery.