Divorcing a narcissist - any experience, advice?

[Wellwobbly]

I am in the process of filing against a [diagnosed] narcissist, and it just gets worse and worse.

I am now The Enemy. It is as though nothing that has been before, existed. Creepy, and inhuman.

does anyone have any experience, advice? Did it go to court, or were you able to get an agreement at mediation stage?

Do courts recognise the unreasonableness of the narcissist, and are you protected?

How do you keep lawyer's costs down and stop escalation?

How do you protect the (teenage) children?

Any advice/hand-holding gratefully received.

[Cazzeroonee]

Thanks all for the advice. I'm so lucky to have legal aid to help me with it all. He's since threatened me with an occupational order! My solicitor has said it's all threats which I agree with. He said I didn't pay anything towards the home and that I treat it like a hotel! It's rediculous as I've always paid the bills and I have to leave the house at weekends because he brings his girlfriend into the home! What does he expect me to do!? I think he just wants legal documents to say I'm a bad person so he can show them at the end of this fiasco to make him feel better. I had a meeting with the police to collate all my records from nearly 12 months and I've been told if he does anything to make me feel uncomfortable, anxious or upset in anyway I have to phone 101. They said if he carries on doing things then he will have a visit from the police. He just does stupid things like block the drive with the bins so I have to move them to be able to park. He'll leave the rubbish in the porch or he'll purposely spill gravy on the work surfaces then leave it. Then there's the way he talks to me which is vile so I just lock myself in my room or I leave the house. This is all witnessed by our 17yr old son who wants his say but I've told him he can talk to the solicitor when the time is right. He loves his dad but hates the way he's behaving. I've since blocked my ex on my phone so he can't contact me at all unless face to face which I record. So fingers crossed this will be sorted soon

[Goldilocks3Bears]

Btdt. Mediation is pointless. It took years and cost 35k including accountancy to divide assets. Try to pander to his giant ego to keep it civil around the kids - he’ll want to put on a show of being the best dad ever. The courts will consider the kids as a priority and it doesn’t matter whose fault it is.

I wish you the best of luck.

Ps - he left for a midlife crisis and I read “Runaway Husbands” which was a good read.

[Jpp2018]

Hi Cazzeroonee

I do feel for you. I had to share a home and our daily business life whilst going through the divorce process.
You'll find that you will be painted as a liar, unstable, unreasonable etc. Having come out the other side of the actual divorce although going back in as ex husband is now going for a variation of the consent order - 8 months after it was finalised - and even though we discussed nothing outside of mediation or via our solicitors - I have found that my biggest regret is that I didn't fight harder during the process. When you are divorcing a narcissist, you just want it to be over - but it's never really over until all maintenance ends.
Reading your message and seeing that your husband wants to use his own surveyor and solicitor for the sale of the house rings alarm bells. You may think, oh well, does it really matter if it keeps him calm. Yes, it does matter. Unfortunately you have to put your head down and fight like hell to get a written independent view of everything. Any little thing that you think is common sense to just agree rather than getting solicitors involved will come back to bite you if STBX doesn't get what he wants further down the line.
Be strong. One day it will truly be over :)

[Cazzeroonee]

Well now he's trying to get an occupational order on me to throw me out my own home! This is after filing a complaint to the police saying I've said things about him which has made him too scared to go into town, which is totally rubbish. I've since collated all police reports which he has no idea of and I now have victim support in contact with me. Now it's a case of phoning 101 if at any time he's being vile towards me or doing stuff to make me uncomfortable. I've now got a lock on my bedroom door to stop him coming in. Regarding the house sale my solicitors are waiting for the go ahead from legal aid to get the quality surveyor in then its on to the courts. It's horrible to live like this but I agree going through the courts is the only way.

[Jpp2018]

Hi
I know this is an old thread but just thought, having been through the process of divorcing a narcissist I would post my experience in case it's of any help to anyone else.
I was married to a narcissist for 13 years. To make it even more tricky, we ran a company together so our incomes were both tied into the same source.
Anyway, we went through mediation, finally managed to get an agreement. I signed the company over to him in exchange for larger share of proceeds of house and, what I thought, guaranteed income for 2 years after. He hadn't ever really been involved in the company (apart from spending the money!) and clearly was going to struggle after I left but, since the company was well set up I thought it would last 2 years.
Fast forward 8 months. Ex husband stopped paying maintenance - even though he has to under the sealed Consent Order. Nothing happened. I filed to enforce, he filed to have a downward variation stating, well, still not exactly sure - every time I get a solicitor's letter or we go to court, the reason changes; 1) he can't afford it 2) I don't need it, 3) I lied about the value of the company (despite there being an independent valuation) 4) I hid invoices therefore left him in a mess. None of it is true - but that's a narcissist for you. Now we have to go all through the court system anyway.
My advice for divorcing a narcissist is to go to court anyway. That way, at least anything agreed is documented. We went to mediation, and I thought that was documented well enough but apparently anything that goes on in mediation is not admissible in court - so we start all over again basically.

[ACatsNoHelpWithThat]

@Cazzeroonee you need to start your own thread as people will read the OP and respond to that. Hopefully you'll get some responses then.

[Cazzeroonee]

I really need help with my narcassistic ex husband. Unfortunately Im still in the same house with our 17 yr old son who wants to live with me(Hes still at 6th form)
I cant afford my own place as wages wont cover 2 bed property. Narcassistic ex is a builder with 30 years in the business. Basically he's playing games to slow down everything. The house has to have a quality surveyor in now ( His valuations were £40,000 less than mine?)But he wants one that he is friends with as well as having his family friend as his solicitor...Ive told my solicitor Id rather pay someone from a different county to survey the property. The divorce and sale of property has taken 11 months as he is dragging it all out and wants to buy me out for less than 50%. Hes abussive to me and I have hours of recordings and a diary of my day to day life living with him.Hes even been abussive to 2 of my friends and sent solicitors letters to them saying if they talk about him in a bad manner the police will get involved. Even though I have proof of him being abussive to them in the first instance(I have police record)What can I do? I hate living like this but cant see a way out

[jeaux90]

Ok OP. So, my ex was a narc. You must limit the contact as much as possible. No mediation. Prepare yourself for the negotiation of your life, with the best legal rep you can get and be prepared to pay for forensic accountants etc if the finances and assets are not straight forward. For your sanity I will say this, narcs hate themselves, they are shallow shells of a human being who are attracted to us lovely people because we make them look good. You are breaking free and just hold on to that moment (whenever it is) of that point when you can kiss his sorry ass goodbye and get on with your life. Big hug xxx

[user1475501383]

Also, to Wobbly the OP,

Regarding your original questions, I don't have all the answers as am in the middle/beginning of legal proceedings and my situation has been going on for 2 yrs, however, based on this experience, I'd say:

1. get legal advice and find a great lawyer ASAP. I made the mistake of not even seeking legal advice for the first 12 months because XH manipulated me into that we could 'solve things without solicitor costs'! All the while 'gatekeeping' my access to DS...while I was under the impression we would 50-50 co-parent and this was just temporary.... it isn't.
   
   
2. Get as much contact with your children as you can --- if your XH is happy for you to be the sole carer, do it. The courts apparently favour status quo so you must make it fall in your favour. One of my big mistakes was that I let XH be the main carer after our separation, and though we both said it was temporary I now realise he lied and manipulated me, and now he is using the 'status quo' argument in his favour in court proceedings.
   
   
3. Mediation with a narcissist is not possible. I actually suggested mediation repeatedly since our separation but XH declined as it would 'cost money' but then he spent thousands taking me to court when I wanted to take DS to my birth country for 2 days to see an unwell member of the family. He accused me of abduction! I got permission to travel but ever since we have been locked in custody proceedings. You can apply to bypass mediation if there has been psychological/emotional abuse, and I would guess there has been in your case, as isn't that what all narcissists do?
   
   
4. Take him to court ASAP over child arrangements, and also finances and actual divorce but I'd say child arrangements are the most pressing.
   
   
5. If your XH actually has a diagnosis of NPD as you say, this will be fantastic for you as you can state it in your application, as well as the damage NPD causes to children of a NPD parent, and you can request the court to order him to make his diagnosis a part of the proceedings. My XH has not got NPD diagnosis but he has used my mental health records against me by making it mandatory that I release them to the Court, which I have done, because he has made such a song and dance about it that my lawyers said I really don't have a choice. You can do this to him. (My mental health records include a long-standing history of depression, treated with antidepressants, but XH is trying to claim I am manic/psychotic.... of course everyone who disagreed with a Narcissist must be psychotic, RIGHT?!)
   
   Hope this helps. Do not repeat my mistakes seek legal representation immediately and take him to court, bypass mediation on grounds of abuse (if he has been abusive to you physically/emotionally/psychologically/financially), and prepare for a load of mudslinging from his direction. Relationships will be ruined - I lost a lot of friends who I genuinely believed were my friends, including XH's family members.... BUT. You will be happier, no matter how devastating the legal fight is. At least you do not have to live with that person anymore.

[user1475501383]

Wow, Ladybird, your situation sounds just like mine except even worse. I can't believe this is possible!!! I see DS every half a weekend, but at least I see him.... how on earth is is possible you do not see your kids?? This really worries me! What is wrong with the system? Are you in legal proceedings? There has to be hope for you. 'Parental alienation' is what your XH is doing and it is severely damaging for kids. I'd like to know if you're in court proceedings or have been. I would hope that you could at least take him to court and apply for principal residence based on his Parental Alienation actions alone!!!

My own situation has been a huge eye-opener for me as I really did not think this kind of behaviour would be possible to go on, and I am praying the court proceedings will eventually make things better, but so far it's been taking a long time with just bureaucratic pre-preparations...

And yes, my XH also tried to start a process to get me sectioned, and has turned all his family and friends as well as many school mums and former mutual friends against me.... Lots of similarities with your XH...

Lots of love to you all, I really hope we can all get thru this

[theprimreaper]

I am considering asking my narc husband to leave after 20 years of walking on eggshells and silent treatment, and abuse by his family by extension (he tells them lies about me and they all bitch behind my back). He doesn't have a proper job (is a 'writer' - hmmm) and I own the house and pay the bills yet I am treated with contempt and after losing my job I am now working from home 3 days a week and am realising the more I am in the house how awful it is. Two teenage kids - as they get older he is beginning to treat them in the same way - though often nice to them then nasty the next (rarely more than civil to me). At the moment he is giving them the silent treatment as well as me for an entirely fabricated row that he created yesterday. However I am reading this thread and it is terrifying me. Also as it is my house (but he 'works' from home so won't leave his beloved computer and wifi connection) I know he won't leave. He has told me I am a pig and disgusting and god knows what else, but won't go. I do not know what to do to get him out. Changing the locks is possibly illegal and am scared of violence (is not normally violent though has past form but I think the threat of me making him go would tip him over the edge tbh.) And want to minimise confrontation for the kids. I am worried I will lose all my savings and half my house, even my pension and I have no family alive to support me. Feel so isolated. If anyone could recommend the best course of action I would be grateful. Know he will make it difficult for me to work too and can't afford to lose my job. When they were little I thought at least he would be there for the kids but as they grow older and answer back I'm not so sure now...

[Tigger1974]

After 14 years with my partner, i came home to find a note on the kitchen table saying he wasnt happy and thought this was the best way to do it. No warning, no discussion, just gone. I had already had 6 months of hell supporting dad with aggressive cancer.
He packed up all his stuff within 4 hours, emptied the joint bank account and because he had lived with me in my property and paid me peanuts each month he took away the 125k which he had saved towards our next home.
The note on the table was awful, all about him. Then he went on to thank me for my support over the years (just like resigning from a job). No human emotion.
Left in the house was everything sentimental i had given him... like i didnt exhist and the past 14 years never happened.
He was the golden child of a narcassistic mother, who always called him son and despite being in his 40s treated him like a child. She would ring anytime during the day and demand his attention. He would be asked to visit her without me. She treated him like a partner, sharing her woes and secrets. At one point she asked him to buy her a house.
No one else knew of his plans, only his mum who helped him, securing a home near her. On the day he left she phoned all her family and advised we had split up (protecting his image). She then advised them they must have no contact with me.
The note said for me to phone him, i did, but he ignored me. He then emailed me saying nothing i could say or do would make him change his mind and offered me £500 for outstanding bills. Then stated if i had any perceived issues i should email him, for his condsideration..... i left it weeks before trying to contact him, tried messenger, phone and then called his aunt. All i wanted was to get his remaining possessions out my home, ask for the additional bill money he owed and discuss the joint account. By this time i realised he had a severe personality disorder, i just wanted to tie up loose ends and get on with my life. He replied by text saying i was making him feel harassed and that he would have no further contact with me.
In someways if i was married i would have had some financial protection, instead i have been left high and dry.
The morning he left he kissed and cuddled me in bed.... a true jekyl and hyde.
Has anyone else experienced a split and similar issues? Any suggestions much appreciated.

[Notanymorethanks]

I'm divorcing a narcissist. It's traumatic and I feel forever on the back foot. It was always destined for a full trial and he desperately wants his day in court. This is a person with no conscience and easily able to lie under oath. An arch manipulator, a wealthy influential man who has shattered my reputation with lies, half truths and inaccuracies. I will be cross examined next week at trial by his very aggressive lawyer. Advice and tips for getting through this please....

[ladybird69]

Wobbly. My friends all know what he's like they have given me such support but he has totally isolated himself and the children from my family and our family friends do that only his version of the story will be brain washed into them. He knows that if they have contact they will tell them the truth so it's not only me but my dear mother who has no contact either. He is now hanging around with group of new friends who are in their early twenties and totally taken in by his charm flash the cash ways! Yet kids and I were always in hand me downs and carboot buys! If I could see them face to face it would help but they won't agree to even meet for 2 mins!
My ex also ran down business and hid money to act penniless to the judge in court. And behind everyone's back he'd sneer and taunt me about how's he's gotten away with everything and the court system is a joke! There is no clean way of divorcing a man like this. They think up plots that a normal person wouldn't even comprehend.

[onefewernow]

Wobbly , why the hell has he given up his job? Just to piss you off? He is nuts.

[Wellwobbly]

Surely some friends know, Ladybird? Some of their childhood friends?

When you are stronger, can't you re-visit this?

[ladybird69]

Sorry didnt want to take over thread. Well wobbly my ex has bought them lovely new phones (so I haven't got mob nos) and also have moved numerous times so that I have no idea where they are living! All I can do is leave them private messages on FB. Just constantly tell them I love them I'm here not matter what and I miss them and am heart broken. Ex prob has good laugh reading my pathetic messages but that's all I can do for now. I won't lose hope and I'm not going to crumble. Thanks for link. Bless you

[Wellwobbly]

Also for Ladybird:

www.amazon.com/Splitting-Protecting-Narcissistic-Personality-ebook/product-reviews/B0056JX46W/ref=pr_all_summary_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21

don't give up!

[Wellwobbly]

Ladybird, keep in touch with your children. Send them cards through the neighbours, tell them you are still here, you love and think about them all the time.

It will take time and persistence, but children hear these things.

[ladybird69]

My narcissistic psychopath of an xh threatened me time and time again that he would take my children if I ever divorced him (domestic abuse). I held on Sooo long but a serious interest in one of his many affairs kicked off a particular period of hell where basically I was backed into a corner and begging for a divorce! Straight into his web I'd walked. I was now the bad guy he was victim all support was given to this broken msn! He told lies he told people I'd said things and done things I didn't do. He poisoned my children against me and accused me of attacking him, a huge hulk of a man !!! I guess standing in front of your wife screaming ah ah don't hit me stop attacking me. Counts as assault. He threatened suicide. He tried to kick me out of house then smirked as I was breaking my heart saying yeah as soon as your gone I'm moving my girlfriend in. He then started a campaign to get me sectioned and declared unstable. He took my children my furniture my sentimental things. He stole from me. He caused criminal damage against my property. He constantly harassed and stalked me.
The divorce started I get nasty messages from children and put on FB why am I doing this to poor old xh? The divorce took over 12 months of hell. He would make appts and cancel appts on my behalf, write letters in my name. He even dragged other members of his family into it. He had 2 solicitors he fired first one. At court hearings he would shout at his solicitor and the judge. The judge continually told him his behaviour was unacceptable!!! But because he had children he said he'd have to allow the majority of assets to go to him. Now 6 months later my darling children are still not in touch with me but I have heard from friends they are being forgotten about/neglected! I just wish the system would take into account that these kind of people are out there and the decent scared women and families trying to get away from them should get the best help and protection. Oh and for what it's worth even after 2 years he is about to be held in contempt of court!!!! They just think that they are above the law. Good luck Op sometimes I wish I'd just disappeared into thin air.

[misreadings]

From my investigations Random that is rarely the case - divorces can go on for years and I've been told the firms just can't operate on a 'I'll pay you one day' system. I've had to take out a divorce loan Wobbly and still smart at the fact that he's paying his legal bills out of his monthly income (and therefore saying he can't pay me any MPS as things stand) whereas my bills will have to come out of my settlement.

[RandomMess]

I think you can often have the debt on account at the solicitors to come out of the settlement?

I'm just concerned if he knows you are desperate to divorce he will string it out even longer on purpose just to exercise control over you

[Wellwobbly]

Thanks Random. I am really looking forward to arriving at the state of 'Meh'.

But I really loved him a lot, and am heartbroken.

He is jobless at the moment (his choice) so really I have to get going on this.
I will have to take out a loan to pay the solicitor. It then gets paid out of the settlement. Another cost of my paralysis. If I had filed at BD (ie accepted things sooner), I think I would have qualified for legal aid?

[RandomMess]

How would it work if you waited for the 2 years separation as the petition or the 5 years when they don't need to agree to it? Would he want the assets sorted out more quickly - can you use that to manipulate back?

"I'm happy to wait 5 years to divorced when I don't need your agreement, if you want a share of the house before then I will only agree to you getting x percent?

I would try and respond to solicitor communication myself with the broken record offer.

Sadly I think you have to accept he will always be a nightmare

[SpicedGingerTea]

Wobbly you write so eloquently about infidelity and the effects on marriage, and have been really helpful on my threads, that I would do anything I can to return the favour and support you back. Unfortunately I'm in the midst of it, as you are, and sometimes I can't see a way out. It comes in spurts - I have a quiet period, then some shit kicks off and it gets stressful again (usually in the way of a solicitor's letter or such like). I just long for the day when I'm free of him. It hurts, but there is also a tremendous sense of relief as well that I now see him for what he is and I'm free of him (or I will be one day).

The personal attack thing is interesting. I now realise that my H never took any slight criticism well - he always hit the roof, spent days sulking and punishing me, kept telling me how upset he was and how I'd overstepped the mark and then used it as an excuse to attack me for days and days on end. It's no way to live, because you end up grovelling (of sorts) for their approval again.

I actually shudder when I look back.

Anyway, lots of hand holding here, but as you know, I'm looking at court, if I can afford it.