Really need some help

[Brokemyself]

Hello, I'm pregnant with DC3 and after a long rough patch which seemed to be getting better we had a huge row and'D' P has just stormed out again. God knows where he has gone this time. Our relationship became a mess during my pregnancy with DC2 as he can't handle my pregnancy mood swings and shuts down when in fact I need support emotionally the most so any emotional withdrawal makes me feel even more alone than I already am. Apologies if this is rather incoherent as I'm crying my eyes out in frustration and hurt having been walked out on for the umpteenth time! I can't talk to anyone as we have become that nightmare couple that argue all the time in fact I've lost friends over our ups and downs but we are trying to stick it out as we I guess hope things will go back to some kind of normal relationship. We have both become by nasty and disrespectful in some instances and its hard to some back from that well it seems like its hard to come back from that in light of what is happening now. I can't forgive him for past indiscretions (no affairs, or so he says) but boundary breaking and line crossing. Walking out is his favourite hurtful trick and he has promised not to do but once again here we are.
I'm so upset and so uncertain about our family's future. Where the fuck has he gone this time damnit!

[Brokemyself]

Judgypants doesn't even come in to it. Basically been cut off as I have created this mess myself apparently so no support there - I have ruined my life by the bad decisions I made given all the opportunities I was given etc etc. DC2 is a baby, other one at school etc. Home is secure thank god! Don't mean to sound like a self pity party.

Urgh. There is no way he could parent full time =D I'd love to see that!

[wordyBird]

He might deny wrongdoing, Broke, but denial won't save him: police and other agencies have heard it all before.

And if it's any comfort, the 'you're mad/ you ought to be sectioned / I want custody because you're unfit' tirade is a very common and hackneyed one, so common it seems almost universal among abusers. :( The agencies have heard all that before too.

So I hope that even if you feel cornered or exhausted at the moment, it gives a little comfort to know you're not alone, and you will be believed.

I think quite a few women feel embarrassed in this situation, even though it's completely unfounded. Maybe it's because you get used to taking responsibility for everything in your relationship, so this must be down to you too? (it's not). Also, very capable, strong, professional women find themselves trapped in this way. I know a couple personally: one was trapped overseas with no money and an abuser for a husband. When her family found out no-one called her on her judgment, they just wanted her safe and happy....

[wordyBird]

X post, not so lucky with family then, I am sorry.
Believe me, you don't sound anything like a pity party...

[Brokemyself]

This is going to sound even more ridiculous but I just keep thinking if he dropped all the bullshit and accepted what I have said and was honest with himself about how he really feels then we could start to communicate properly.

I don't think he is a bad person (sic) just emotionally shut down -well with me anyway. So I still home he will drop the crap and just be 'normal' whatever that is.

However there are certain things he has done which I can just forget and move on from no matter what he thinks.
My family are pretty harsh when it comes to the choices I've made as they are 'disappointed'.
Anyway my families judgmental crap isn't really my main concern as I am so used to it after all these years.

[garlicagain]

My mistake for using the words "bad people". When a person deliberately hurts someone who loves them, frightens and insults them, and effectively imprisons them by denying them money - I would call that person bad. You don't have to. I judge him on his actions, but you're free to ... er, well, what?? Attempt a personality transplant by force of will?

Sounds like your family trained you to keep on trying, in the face of others' contempt. They did a good job :(

[Brokemyself]

Did you? I didn't even register! My god my brain really isn't working today I just feel guilty for not pointing out he is a complete fuckwit in everything ie he does have a decent realtionship with the kids and does do housework. Although this is used against me as apparently I do nothing and he does everything! =D

[Brokemyself]

I mean't isn't

[wordyBird]

I just keep thinking if he dropped all the bullshit and accepted what I have said and was honest with himself about how he really feels then we could start to communicate properly

...the trouble is, you might already know how he really feels. It's possible, even likely, that he really feels how he says he does. There isn't anything deep down, and it isn't BS, but the truth as he sees it.

To be honest, how he acts is giving you the strongest possible clue how he feels (selfish, entitled, controlling, aggressive, for example).

The problem with normal, compassionate people like us, is that we think people like this must be in denial, or hiding something, or acting out because of something that happened in their past, or anything except that something is fundamentally dysfunctional within them. I tend to point to empathy and conscience failure. It doesn't mean someone is bad per se, but they are highly likely to think and act in ways we see as bad (just as garlic described).

Though it doesn't matter about causes or judgment calls in the end ? the results are the same :(

[wordyBird]

...let me clarify my words...ways we see as bad = bad !

[Brokemyself]

Ouch. Yes that makes a lot of sense. I suppose that is what I am finding difficult to accept. maybe once I have come to terms with the fact he is not the lovely, caring and compassionate person he made himself out to be, the easier it will be to move on from how upset I feel about his treatment of me. He is very controlling and I only realised it recently when my best friends brand new partner commented to her after spending 15 minutes with us. I was mortified.

He does have a very shallow view on the world and I'm not saying that to be a bitch, he does interacts on a surface level and lacks authenticity. I have really only noticed this recently and was quite taken aback by a few incidents. Very flighty indeed.

I'm not by any means once for deep meaning conversations as a means of communication for everything but once in a while it would be nice not to keep everything on a superficial level. He is supposed to be my partner and father of my children ffs.

I know I need to keep repeating what you have just said in your last post as this should go a long way in reducing my self torment and why why why attitude which I continue to direct towards myself! It's exhausting and detracts my time with my DC's.

[wordyBird]

Ah, I'm sorry to give an ouch...

It is pretty horrifying to consider that someone is as shallow as they appear - eg, that they really do think appearances matter, or that they matter more than love, or doing the work of caring about somebody. Or however it's manifesting in your relationship...

I think it's worse still when that person has presented themselves as caring and compassionate - and even believes they ARE caring and compassionate. That can leave you feeling very crazy indeed.

[Brokemyself]

It's a bitter pill to swallow indeed. All the puzzle pieces are starting to fall in place. The messaging the ex who was getting married, meeting up for dinner with her not inviting me, then after our DD was born insisting they meet and getting angry with me for questioning his motives. This from someone who has lied about contact in the past. During the awful period around the d and c he was messaging and 'old friend' to meet for drinks. Even she said to him you have a girlfriend what are you doing. His reply was that it wasn't like that! Even she could see it. I don't know if they met but I know they spoke on the phone as some of the messages clearly say I've just called where are you. I was away over night for a work thing at the time, so who knows. He has always swore blind he would never cheat and claims he's never cheated but of course he'd say that! I'd be more than willing to believe him if he wasn't so unequivocally shit in so many ways and to blame 'we are just wired differently' actually just makes me want to vomit in disgust.

I'm not saying he has ever physically cheated...I have no proof...but he has betrayed my trust on so many levels and ignores this fact. I don't know how to repair any of these trust issues as as far as I've always been concerned, no trust, no relationship. When he does go out he doesn't stay late granted but he does most often come back drunk and then get quite nasty. He drinks about a bottle of wine a night. It's his way of relaxing he says.

I'm at the point where I feel so hopeless, I had an awful pregnancy with DC2 and was very ill and this one is not much better but again have no support at all. I'm told everyone else's wife/girlfriend just gets on with it and I'm a nightmare, he says he has no respect and doesn't value our relationship. He always backtracks on this and says he only says these things as I 'wind him up so much'. He doesn't realise that this stays in my head!

I just feel like giving up on it all and resigning myself to the fact I've made my bed and must now lie in it until one of us caves in and either walks away or god know what. I really do feel like such a weak whinging woman saying these things and that it could be a whole lot worse but my life is utter hell right now and I see no lit at the end of the tunnel.

I don't know what he wants out of this which I guess is half the problem.

[garlicagain]

It's not weak to admit your life feels like hell. It's courageous honesty. I really feel for you, Broke, and do want to remind you how important it is to relish the lovely parts of your life - the DC's finest moments; the sunshine; stuff that makes you laugh, and so on. This is for your mental health, and the continued ability to stay honest.

To put a cool, clear distance on the relationship you've described this morning - he sounds pretty messed up, emotionally, and this isn't something you can fix in another adult. You seem to be describing a couple who are developing in different ways: growing apart, as they used to say. There's sadness in that, but no shame.

[Lweji]

You and lots of other people want to believe the best in others.
You still want to believe the best about your H.

You are wrong in thinking that deep down he is like you and like decent people.

Do get as much help as you can.

Make your plan and let him go on his trip, as others suggested. Make sure the locks are changed when he comes back.

[wordyBird]

I've made my bed and must lie on it

..is almost verbatim what my friend said when she was in an abusive relationship. She had become used to putting everyone else first, especially him. But I also think that being around him sucked the life and strength out of her. She just felt too exhausted to even think about what she felt, or needed.

You sound a little like that, Broke ? as if the strength has been dragged out of you. If anyone is whinging and weak it is HIM, since he wants you to suffer your pregnancy issues without any support, and yet still take care of him. If you don't, 'you're a nightmare' or 'winding him up'.

Not doing what he wants, saying what he wants, and making him comfortable, that's what he thinks is a nightmare. That is whinging, for sure.

You can get out of this, but take it step by step. You're dealing with the first, very hard step - the realisation that all is not as you thought, and that it isn't your fault.

As soon as you start to detach from him you will start to gain some strength (remember to use your inner Jeremy Paxman....)

[onefewernow]

Garlic and Bird you have been great on this thread.

Broke I did want to say, from personal experience of living with a man who was passive aggressive and irresponsible, that I notice that you have focused a great deal in how he should change and if only you found the "key" to getting him to see this, he would.

That is your biggest mistake- and I made it myself.

You cannot control him back.

Men like him take any opinion from women as an attempt to control- they think women should flatter or shut up, regardless of their espoused feminist views even.

You will never make him see, and he will always feels anger and discomfort with you for trying.

He could see for himself, but he doesn't want to.

There is the real key- he could but he doesn't want to.

I had a great Relate counsellor but he was an older man and didn't mess about. And very highly trained. He got my H to admit he was a manipulative controller quicker than you can slice bread, and got him to admit all kinds of crap he had strenuously denied to me for 20 years- in the sort of pointless rambling conversations you describe.

H was motivated by the realisation I was really likely to chuck him out.

I think your H is not in the right place for Relate, by the way. I'm just saying to illustrate that your H knows damn well what he is, and is doing, and he is crazy making you. He will never ever stop, in my view, just because you ask him to.

I also think his relationship with women generally, and his charm outside, is also typical and telling. Garlic and WB are right about that too.

[Brokemyself]

onefew

I agree everyone here has been so lovely and helpful and the insight I have gained is invaluable.

I also think his relationship with women generally, and his charm outside, is also typical and telling. Garlic and WB are right about that too.

Sorry I may be being very think but would you mind elaborating on this point so I fully understand.

Wordy I'm channelling my inner Paxman as we speak! Yes this is definitely a start of sorts of doing things differently. I feel like veil has been lifted! I also feel like I have lost something but it's thrown me even more off balance to realise I may have got it all so wrong in thinking our relationship was a certain way. Amazing how you can fool so your and deny whats really happening because it's less painful.

Thank you everyone for being so kind and helpful and taking the time to reply in such depth to my pleas for help! I'm terrible at asking for help but just feel so desperate these days. I have scared myself wtih the things I have done!

[Brokemyself]

onefew on the Relate note. I was blamed by the woman for everything, she excused all his behaviour and told me I must have been a madwoman during my pregnancy. She doesnt have children and made it clear she would never have them. She also said I was insecure as i probably felt like I hadnt regained by pregnancy weight. I was gobsmacked as that has never even entered my head until she said it. That is one thing thats never been an issue our relationship at least! Anyway there is more but its detracting for my main points. In a nutshell Relate made me feel even worse and compounded the fact it's all me.

[Brokemyself]

Posted too soon! Everything you say about not being allowed an opinion really has hit home. He gets very angry when I have my own and refuses to agree on anything ever or even contemplate I have my own individual take on a situation.

I also think he doesnt in a million years think I would ever actually want him to go for good - he has spent time at friends/parents in the past. He leaves because he says he is so angry he doesnt know what he is capable of doing. He also claims he has never been like this in previous relationships and I am the cause of his anger.

I do hope one day with counselling and maturity he will grow into a decent caring human being but I'm scared it will be too late. In an ideal world I'd love us to be a family...

[onefewernow]

Can you see you are still doing it? Ie relying on his to change. He can if he wants. He knows full well his behaviour isn't on. He doesn't change because he doesn't want to. You have all your eggs in the ' get him to change' basket.

My remarks about women- charming and wanting to be the centre of attention and wanting women to admire him, then behaving like an arse behind closed doors. He would be mortified if they heard him wouldn't he?

He doesn't treat you the san e way as he doesn't respect you. He thinks he doesn't need to as he has you already and you are going nowhere. All this coming and going he does is on his terms- he chooses to leave not you chucking him out. And if you try he will get difficult- because he is a controller.

Read that Lundy Bancroft book, and you will be amazed.

[onefewernow]

He doesn't care how women feel, only about how they make him feel. Anyone with needs eg you, will get a raw deal. Women out there do not, as they are meeting his needs instead. Nobody can keep that up in a live-in relationship.

And you have No Evidence he is telling the truth about previous relationships.

[onefewernow]

Same way. Excuse typos

[onefewernow]

To be honest, he is a pig.

Unhelpful with the kids
Unresponsive to your needs
Comes and goes for a holiday when he gets angry
A liar
Keeps you short of money
Pr

[onefewernow]

Probably chatting up OW

Threatening f to take the kids

Lovely.

And that relate woman was not good.

[wordyBird]

onefewernow, thank you

Broke your previous counsellor comes across as an untrained amateur. As if she had no idea what she was doing. Very bad indeed.
The next one will surely be better (check qualifications if you can)...

Sorry to say your P is unlikely to mature or change into anything different. Chances are he will just get older.:(