My mother and BPD... A bit of help rationalising my thoughts please.

[filee777]

So, to cut a (very) long story short, I have not been in contact with my mother for the last 5 months.

This stems from my childhood, the fact i was abused by my older brother emotionally and physically and she ignored it, leaving me alone with my two older brothers from around aged 8 for 2+ hours a day, plus leaving us for 10 days to go to vegas when i was 12 years old. My brothers are 3 and 5 years older than me.

She had plenty of money and there was plenty of opportunity that things were not right which she had just ignored.

When i got to 17 I tried to cut them all off but she stopped me and put down a deposit on a house for me to live in, which i did for the next 7 years. I loved my house because it was the first place i ever felt safe but i still felt very angry with my mum and she made me see that this was terrible of me, how could I be angry with someone who gave me so much/treated me so well.

So, with little else to go on and still believe i was the most awful, irrational person in the world, I ran with that and amended my behaviours and taught myself not to be angry with her. Despite this work our relationship has always been fraught with underlying issues and constantly revolving around money and what she gives to me and why aren't i more grateful.

Throughout life i realised a number of things, i met my husband and he changed my perception of a lot of the stuff that had happened to me, like my brother would kick me in the stomach so i was winded and hold me down screaming in my ear that this is what death felt like and i would die alone because nobody would ever love me because i was so evil/pathetic/ugly etc etc. So obviously DH has had to break through a lot of barriers and teach me that him loving me is not part of some great plot or whatever. Its been hard because its always there in my mind but we work through things.

The other major issue has been that when i have flashbacks i find it really difficult to talk to him because when i did open up to my parents my mum would tell me that i had wound my brother up and i should be better at not getting him angry so that he would leave me alone.

This is hard because he would just randomly attack me for loads of stuff like leaving a cup out of the dishwasher, or colouring in while he was watching telly and making a scratching sound on the paper... etc etc.

So all this stuff went on, at one point i picked up a knife because he said he was going to kill me and ran out of the house, he followed me and rugby tackled me and received a downward scratch on his chest, it was not deep, needed no medical attention yet my mum spoke of it like i had 'stabbed' him and beat the shit out of me and refused to listen to my point of view about it. That was when i was 12 and because i was punished so much for it and he was not, it sort of made it clear that he could do what he wanted to me and there was no self-defence or comeback towards him. So he just used to torture me for fun and there was nothing i could do about it.

Anyway, so it was suggested that i visit a child psychologist when i was 11 and i did that, they told my mum they thought i had Borderline Personality Disorder but it could not be diagnosed formally until adulthood.

I heard my dad and her speaking about it and they said it was a 'made up' condition and just shrinks wanting money and ignored it.


Moving on.

When i got older and met more and more people and learnt to open up, i realised that peoples general perception was that no matter what i had 'done to wind him up' i didnt deserve to have three of my teeth shattered or any of the other stuff he did. I mention the teeth because though not the worst thing i remember it was obvious to my mum because she paid a private dentist about 2k to veneer my four front teeth.

So back in February, we are driving in the car and she asks me for a 'balcony view' of why i dont get on with my brother (this is honestly the way she talks) and i begin to tell her. So she says that I was the difficult one, i was the one that caused her the most 'bother' and that it was my fault because i wound him up. Well i stopped speaking to her from there really because i am not up for being told that anymore.

We had a lot of email communication but it was basically her ignoring everything i said and instead just focusing on one point of an email and telling me i was awful for not moving on with my life and that i blamed her and how dare I and I had so much anger in me and it was totally irrational.

So we stopped communicating that way and agreed that she would stay in touch with my husband to get updates on the kids. This all went fine until she started sending him emails saying that she was 'praying for my happiness' and bullshit like that which made me really angry.

So i told her to stop it and husband didnt know what to do so it was hard for him.




So thats the background, now 2 weeks ago Thursday, i got an email from her saying that she had researched BPD and agreed that i had it, that she had ignored the obvious signs of personality disorder because she wanted a perfect family and it was getting in the way of that. She said that she wanted to be a part of my family life now and didnt understand why issues in the past were getting in the way of that.

I sent one back basically saying that BPD is a product of abuse in childhood and that she was not prepared to lose this 'golden boy' image of my brother in order to validate me and i was not interested in a world where i constantly had to scream to be heard, it hurts my head and its created real damage within me.

she ignored all of this and focused on the last line which was that i agreed that it was nicer for me and the kids to have her around sometimes.

So eventually, after many emails i got her to understand why it was so hard to grow up never being heard and being treated like a thug (like with the knife) and never helped to see how i could communicate with people better.

So i thought we were getting somewhere and i was putting numbers by paragraphs on a very long email detailing everything so she would actually answer it rather than avoid it, but i did say to her that it was not acceptable for her to make me feel guilty for being angry with her, that i didnt anymore and also that i do still have flashbacks and emotional issues stemming from my childhood and that she would have to work with me to deal with those things

so she sends an email (about 4 days ago now) saying 'I think we both need to go and have a think about everything'

and thats it, have heard nothing more

opened up to her, told her what i needed and what she needed to do, really allowed her an opening into my life and i feel like shes sent me an email telling me that she'll 'consider' whether its a good enough offer or not for her!

I dont know what to do now, i feel like just telling her to fuck off again but i dont know if thats a bit presumptuous .

I am happy to copy and paste a couple of the emails, or the last few or something that describes everything in detail but i wondered if anyone was up for helping me with this? Because i dont really know where else to turn right now and i could really do with some support... Thank you in advance.

[filee777]

Well I can't cancel her trip, she'll come to the uk anyway to see my brothers and really I don't mind her seeing the kids every now and then, it will be a whole five months until she returns too to so I won't be hounded for a while. Poor DH is going to have to spend the day/ weekend with her but he's just said he won't engage in any chat about it all. I might see if he is up for speaking to her about the general effect it
all has on my life because its not good really.

Anyway today I am spending a day in with the children chilling so going to try and let my head just relax

[Hissy]

No! Stop engaging!

Don't let her see DH, or the kids this time.

Get your family counted out this time.

Your Poor dh doesn't need to go through this, anymore than you do.

She's not specifically coming to see you, she's seeing golden psycho-balls by the sounds of it, given all that you've made her explicitly aware of, leave her to it.

You HAVE to give yourself a break, and your family too!

[EldritchCleavage]

I agree with Hissy. Just write and say on reflection you think it's best that there is no contact with any of you on this visit.

It would be easy to send your DH with the kids, but it puts them right in the middle of her game-playing and isolates you. Why should you be out in the cold all on your lonesome, again?

[filee777]

After last night and messing up so dreadfully at work I just don't want to deal with it anymore right now.

I am on day 4 of a ridiculously heavy period too which has left me completely deflated and feeling dreadful.

The thing is I know her and if I don't let her see the kids I will get a barrage of attacks not just from her but also from my nana and I wouldn't even be surprised if Marc called me to 'set me straight' or whatever

I am not interested, the kids are young, j is only just turned 3 and e will be 1. I'll be working all that weekend anyway and spending a day or two at paultins park with my mum will not be unpleasant for them.

It just means I don't have to think about it anymore and the pressure is off.

Just for a while.

[Hissy]

That is precisely why you DON'T cave.

Email her and tell her that you're not up to it, and that as a family you've taken a decision to have abreak and that you'll be in contact when you can,

Reiterate that any insistance will be ignored, calls and threats will be reported to the appropriate authority.

You are not going to discuss or negotiate further. If bullied, you'll cut contact permanently.

Then get caller ID if you don't already have it, buy new sims for your phones and have a break from the old numbers.

Get Gmail accounts and log out of the old ones.

You can't keep dealing with this, they are using your pleas for help as weapons.

Take back control.

Can you get away as a family? Coinciding with her trip?

Please, you can't keep yourself available for this kind of abuse. It will kill you.

[Hissy]

If you honestly can't face the confrontation now, then get through this, but don't allow your H to be dragged in, she'll make mincemeat of him, he's not au fait with manipulative people like her.

He needs to repeat, i'm not going to discuss it. Or this is not appropriate.

Ultimately, you have to cut her off, she is truly hideously toxic, and believe you me, your kids are at immense risk, she'll definitely repeat history with them. How could she do otherwise?

[GoodtoBetter]

Listen to Hissy she knows what she's talking about. It may seem terrifying now, but once you've felt the fear and done it anyway it is so much better without people like this in your life.
Cut her off, and I don't say that lightly, but she is truly, truly awful and doesn't deserve a second more of your time or thoughts.
xx

[ChasedByBees]

What Hissy said. If she develops a relationship with your children then arguing that she can't see them will be much more difficult (and she could use that to guilt trip you).

I don't think she is adding anything positive to your life from the descriptions. Just blaming you for her failings.

[Hissy]

When normal people - like us - see someone in distress, we look to help, we see what we can do to make things better.

When people like them see someone like is in distress, the sense blood in thé water.

They see what they can do to gain leverage and make the most of our weakness.

Why? I dunno, I think it gives them a sense of power, an emotional hard on perhaps.

We are not like them, they are not like us. We just want to be accepted, to be like by them. They find our 'niceness' our 'normalcy' intensely irritating, to stop us from showing them up, They seek to destroy us.

The nicer we are, the more it inflames them. If we lose it and turn on them, it shows them we're hurting.

The only way is to give them nothing, niet, zip, nada.

Refuse to play.

[Mrchip]

I have read everything and feel confused....
Your brother should never ever have been allowed to hurt you. However, if he is psychopathic he may have manipulated your parents too and been careful to do what he did when no-one was around.
Did they throw him out when he broke your teeth?

My older sis could be emotionally and physically abusive and I recently asked my Mum why she wasn't challenged. My Mum says she was....I believe she was some of the time, but prob was nastiest when parents not around.

I think it's fair enough to have dreams of a 'perfect' family, though not good enough to hold onto this dream whilst ignoring reality.
I think maybe your Mum also has a v poor model of what a family should be.

I felt her 1st email did just focus on the part you played and your faults.

However, in later ones she did admit fault I felt. I think she is trying hard and didn't think her language was flowery. I can imagine writing some of what she did. She does seem to be accepting that it wasn't acceptable. I think recognising that it wasnt the family she envisaged is valid too. It is true that we all remember different things....

I feel I'm waffling but it just doesn't seem as clear cut to me. I'd really love to know what happened to your brother after he knocked out your teeth. Did they make him leave?

[filee777]

Hey, after my brother smashed my front teeth, my dad got really upset with him and told him he would have to leave, when my mum got home, she got really upset with both of us and I remember her coming into my room and telling me that if my brother had to leave she didn't know where he would go and she would worry about him and that I needed to stop winding him up, then she made it my choice whether he left or not 'the ball is in your court' was and still is her favourite saying.

So now, I remember very clearly that he stayed and it all continued, we moved when I was 14 to a different house and he still lived with us and I have talked this through with her and she agrees, yet then she will revert back to type and make out like she kicked him out when I was 13, this can't of happened though because he still lived with us when we moved into the new house.

But that's the worst thing about it, we go round and round the houses and she agrees that yes he did live with us when we moved house but then insists that he was removed from the house when he broke my teeth, which just didn't happen. She made me decide and put immense pressure on me not to kick him out because it was really both of our problem and we just needed to get on better rather than one of us leave.

So I don't understand why she continues to say that Ian left that house when I was 13 because it didn't happen.

God it winds me up just thinking about it! Going round and round with her for her to continue saying the same thing she's had proven wrong!

[BabiesAreLikeBuses]

hissy golden psycho balls is a perfect nickname!

She sounds like an actress playing out the role of her life. It feels like it is all a play to her and not real. Scenes can be cut and edited conveniently. The fact that she maintains a normal relationship with your brother speaks volumes. Don't feel obliged to let her contact you or the dc just because she had a long flight, take time out for you.

[filee777]

She's just sent this


I have talked to a good friend Sally who works for the Red Cross and who is one of those people who can really tell it like it us and cut through the bullshit but still make you feel that they only have your best intention at heart.
She helped me look some things in the face.
She said I should write down what I told her and send it to you.....

Ian was horrid to her, she was horrible back. While some degree of teasing between siblings is normal in every family, it became extreme. It was exacerbated by the fact that they were left unsupervised routinely after school during the week until we came home from work.

There was little appetite or opportunity to air and resolve the grievances and incidents that had happened during the day. Complaints were unwelcome. the attitude was 'be nice', 'be grateful', 'don't cause problems for your mum and dad who are working so hard'. Issues were glossed over. The focus was on 'its over, forget about it, lets be optimistic, lets do/think about something nice to get over it'.

The impact on Fiona was that she felt worthless and that no one really cared. Her apparent lack of gratitude, sullenness and mood swings that resulted was put down to her being 'difficult' and a trouble maker and reduced even further her chance of being heard. it also reduced the level of sympathy she received and led to comments like 'well what can she expect if she is going to behave that way'.

Her dismissive response, especially when upset, to questions like ' we love you, we are doing our best, why are you behaving like this? left us feeling frustration, anger and despair. To Fiona, all the 'we love you messages' didn't ring true. They were in total conflict with what she was experiencing. At the worst times, when we and others could see she was upset and tried to get close, she would spit out words like 'you don't really care, don't pretend you do'. It's hard to keep trying when the person you want to help pushes you away like that and so, increasingly, people stopped trying. They either avoided her or got angry and retaliated with their own cruel words or worse.

Increased efforts to demonstrate that she was loved, often through presents or special treats, didn't address the underlying issue or result in any sustained change in Fiona's behaviour. This only served to increase the frustration, disappointment and anger and the perception that Fiona was spoilt and ungrateful and impossible to please.

Her reputation as being 'difficult' grew.

When Ian really lost it with her, there was a sense from others that he had been so provoked that he was as much a victim. His self esteem was fragile too. Fiona became the target for him to vent his frustration. Fiona had very early developed an ability to attack using words and could be cruel. His volatility and her verbal skill was a dangerous mix. The lack of a parent/adult to notice and intervene immediately coupled with the 'don't raise it/get over it/why can't you just both get on like good kids' response when issues were raised meant the cycle continued and the issues just got bigger. The lesson Fiona took from this was that Ian would be forgiven for losing it with his little sister and that it was a waste of time to tell anyone. Worse still, inside she began to believe that it was all her fault and that she deserved all the bad things that happened and the cruel things that were said about her.

It was never resolved. They are adults now with rotten memories of the childhood that was marbled with bad experiences. Neither have a relationship with their Dad or each other. I don't speak about either one of them to the other. If I do, it invariably goes to a bad place.

Some kids cope with being left alone together. Some kids have massive fights and then kiss and make up, if not immediately then eventually. What my kids needed to ensure they could develop appropriate self control, respect for themselves and one another was a higher level of supervision than we gave them and more focus on acknowledging that things were wrong and addressing them. It's immaterial that we only meant good things for them. The fact is that the scars are there, just as if they had been burnt.

Fiona was my baby. She was the most vulnerable when I decided to go back to work and that it would be alright to leave her with her brothers. I missed the signs that she was paying too high a price. I missed them all. I missed the links when time went on and I found myself puzzled and dismayed that my daughter seemed to be struggling. It didn't occur to me that what I was doing would be so damaging. I thought if I kept telling her I loved her and overlooking the negativity that this was the best way to fix things.

Now she is a mum. She has 2 gorgeous boys and a gentle loving husband. She has reflected on the issues from the past and recognised that she bears scars from her childhood that badly affect her view of herself and drive behaviours that cause ongoing problems, especially with her relationships with others. She has challenged me about the past, what happened and why. I have found it really hard to avoid being defensive. I have countered her accusations and argued that the past is the past and it does no good to go there. I don't want to hear that I got it wrong. I feel I have let her down again.

I am now having to accept that whatever my intentions, I didn't meet her needs.
I have been thinking about her as a very little girl and how I was the main person who had the role of protecting her and giving her what she needed to be happy. I have always taken it as a sign of personal failure that she was unhappy. That is more about my pride I think than it is about her. It should have been more about her. That was my job.

I cannot bear to be without her in my life. I want to say and do the right things. Right now she thinks I am a waste of space and its not enough to keep saying I didn't mean it.
I realise that It's not enough that I didn't mean it. I need to tell her that.

[KoalaFace]

Oh Fi this has been a heartbreaking read.

By ignoring the abuse you suffered at the hands of your brother and by making you the scape goat, she is guilty of neglect and abuse. She wasn't just uninterested or useless. She actually abused you emotionally and allowed you to be tortured.

For years I worked with children with social, emotional and behavioural difficulties. And the biggest thing I learnt is that the nature of the parental relationship is that the children will look to their parents to "fix their hurt" even of it is the parents who did the hurting.

If someone ran you over in their car and broke your leg, you wouldn't expect them to fix it. You'd go to a doctor. Your abuser can not fix your hurt

The little girl who needed her mum to defend her and protect her from abuse is gone. You've grown up and now her opportunity to help you has gone.

The people who can help you are your DH, DC, friends and certainly a counsellor.

It's a harsh lesson to learn for anyone with your type of childhood. But your mother can not make this up to you. She will probably never be inclined to do so, but even if she was, the time for her to help has come and gone.

I am so sorry you've been through this. I hope you can start to look for help in the right places.

[EldritchCleavage]

Well, I think that email is a flawed, but much much better and more honest take on what happened. It is a basis for further attempts to communicate with her, if you want to. It is still odd though that she wrote it as she did and not in the first person to you.

Be that as it may, do not feel you HAVE to see her now or let the children see her this visit. Take a couple of days, park it (don't brood) then decide. It is perfectly ok to say thanks, but I need some space so we won't see you this visit.

[filee777]

I am still trying to come to terms with the reality that they did just ignore it because he was 'as much the victim' because I was soooo horrid :(

I must have been an awful child and it makes me feel like a bad person.

I can remember him attacking me for no reason or for stupid reasons though and I am finding this all very hard to swallow.

[EldritchCleavage]

Well, that's the worst aspect of the new email. He was older. He used physical violence, but the two of you were both (equally?) to blame. Not good. Your mother is still denying the true nature of your brother's violence towards you.

[filee777]

I remember asking her why I was being punished again, for a long time I wondered why I was being punished twice for stuff, like I would not do what he expected me to do and so would hit me/lock me in the cupboard or whatever and when I told mum and dad they would shout at both of us and send us both to our rooms but I would ask them why I was being 'punished again' as he had already done that.

They would also always invariably believe his 'reason' for hurting me when often that was totally fabricated or none sensical.

I think that was probably because I was seen as the irrational dramatic one.

Just so much to take in

[GoodtoBetter]

Don't listen to a word she says...she's not fit to be mother.

[ChasedByBees]

I think whilst she's trying (as much as she can with her head wedged firmly in the sand), her email still blames you and still doesn't acknowledge the full extent of what you experienced. You were not both equally to blame - you were a small child and a man (or teenager/older child whatever) cannot be excused physical violence against a small child by 'he was provoked'. It is unacceptable.

From what you describe he wasn't provoked, he was just cruel for the sake of it, but even if you had been catty or whatever verbally, dismissing what occurred with 'six of one and half a dozen of the other' is not acceptable and she's still doing that now.

I'd actually be quite offended by 'well she seemed like a horrible, contrary person so we just put her behaviour down to that.' I mean seriously! I want to tell her to fuck off, it makes me so cross reading that. She massively failed you. Massively.

She took no time to find out what was wrong. No wait - actually she did, she just chose to ignore it as it was inconvienient and she left you day after day in an environment that she knew was dangerous for you; physically and emotionally. She was abusive and neglectful.

I'm not sure how to advise you but I wanted to give you a ((hug))

[mummytime]

Please please break off contact with her. If other people try to berate you because you and your family do not have contact with her while she is in the country, then you can ask them to stop harassing you. If they don't stop you can take legal measures.

I really think you need a year or two off to get counselling and deal with this.

It was not your fault. There could be a possibility it wasn't your brother's either. BUT it your mother's fault for not stepping in.

[filee777]

I've actually tried that angle, when I was about 18 I was trying to get her to see that actually the way Ian had been taught to deal with people was so completely destructive, in the beginning stages of me removing him from my life, he began getting very agressive with his friends and actually put another guy in hospital for little reason, the guy is still quite screwed up actually I think he got some sort of brain damage from the intensity of the beating that Ian and another lad inflicted on him.

I was hearing loads of secondhand stories about him violently attacking people and I actually felt really guilty because I knew it was him branching out because he didn't have me to vent his frustrations on anymore.

He also raises his fist and attacked a girlfriend which scared me, I remember talking to mum and begging her to get him help, to help him see that reacting the way he was to people 'winding him up' was just dreadful and he needed to stop it before someone got seriously hurt.

She was totally none plussed about it, she would tell me that he is too old for help and he could do what he wanted, it used to make me furious that she would never just talk to him and help him see that he was not behaving appropriately.

A few years ago he borrowed a lot of money from a friend and lived in his house, the friend and him had an argument and Ian got called a twat so he began attacking his friend which sounds fairly tame except this guy had just had lazer eye surgery a day Before and had been told that if his eye got knocked he might be blinded. Ian was deliberately trying to punch him in the eyes and this guy could only cower and cover his eyes, Ian loved this and started kicking him and telling him he was worthless and pathetic.

There is something wrong with him.

But he had been told that reaction is okay, that its acceptable to attack people violently and agressively, making them feel as vunerable as possible because they have 'wound him up'

I worry about him having a pregnant wife or girlfriend I really do, I think that vulnerability will cause him to play his favourite role and I think it could have tragic consequences.

[Hissy]

Dear god woman, you really DO need NOT to have contact with her this trip, not you, not your children, not your H.

She has to respect that. You all need time to reflect.

Please ask your H to state that you'll swerve this visit, so that feelings can abate, and situation revisited next time around.

She HAS to respect your space, it's not about her this time, it's you.

[cleopatrasasp]

People keep advising you again and again to break contact. Why are you ignoring their advice. Those of us who recognise what went on in this situation don't need you to keep giving examples of what a psycho your brother was and what a useless, abusive excuse for a mother your mother was. We believe you. Have the courage to cut them off and regain your life.