My mother and BPD... A bit of help rationalising my thoughts please.

[filee777]

So, to cut a (very) long story short, I have not been in contact with my mother for the last 5 months.

This stems from my childhood, the fact i was abused by my older brother emotionally and physically and she ignored it, leaving me alone with my two older brothers from around aged 8 for 2+ hours a day, plus leaving us for 10 days to go to vegas when i was 12 years old. My brothers are 3 and 5 years older than me.

She had plenty of money and there was plenty of opportunity that things were not right which she had just ignored.

When i got to 17 I tried to cut them all off but she stopped me and put down a deposit on a house for me to live in, which i did for the next 7 years. I loved my house because it was the first place i ever felt safe but i still felt very angry with my mum and she made me see that this was terrible of me, how could I be angry with someone who gave me so much/treated me so well.

So, with little else to go on and still believe i was the most awful, irrational person in the world, I ran with that and amended my behaviours and taught myself not to be angry with her. Despite this work our relationship has always been fraught with underlying issues and constantly revolving around money and what she gives to me and why aren't i more grateful.

Throughout life i realised a number of things, i met my husband and he changed my perception of a lot of the stuff that had happened to me, like my brother would kick me in the stomach so i was winded and hold me down screaming in my ear that this is what death felt like and i would die alone because nobody would ever love me because i was so evil/pathetic/ugly etc etc. So obviously DH has had to break through a lot of barriers and teach me that him loving me is not part of some great plot or whatever. Its been hard because its always there in my mind but we work through things.

The other major issue has been that when i have flashbacks i find it really difficult to talk to him because when i did open up to my parents my mum would tell me that i had wound my brother up and i should be better at not getting him angry so that he would leave me alone.

This is hard because he would just randomly attack me for loads of stuff like leaving a cup out of the dishwasher, or colouring in while he was watching telly and making a scratching sound on the paper... etc etc.

So all this stuff went on, at one point i picked up a knife because he said he was going to kill me and ran out of the house, he followed me and rugby tackled me and received a downward scratch on his chest, it was not deep, needed no medical attention yet my mum spoke of it like i had 'stabbed' him and beat the shit out of me and refused to listen to my point of view about it. That was when i was 12 and because i was punished so much for it and he was not, it sort of made it clear that he could do what he wanted to me and there was no self-defence or comeback towards him. So he just used to torture me for fun and there was nothing i could do about it.

Anyway, so it was suggested that i visit a child psychologist when i was 11 and i did that, they told my mum they thought i had Borderline Personality Disorder but it could not be diagnosed formally until adulthood.

I heard my dad and her speaking about it and they said it was a 'made up' condition and just shrinks wanting money and ignored it.


Moving on.

When i got older and met more and more people and learnt to open up, i realised that peoples general perception was that no matter what i had 'done to wind him up' i didnt deserve to have three of my teeth shattered or any of the other stuff he did. I mention the teeth because though not the worst thing i remember it was obvious to my mum because she paid a private dentist about 2k to veneer my four front teeth.

So back in February, we are driving in the car and she asks me for a 'balcony view' of why i dont get on with my brother (this is honestly the way she talks) and i begin to tell her. So she says that I was the difficult one, i was the one that caused her the most 'bother' and that it was my fault because i wound him up. Well i stopped speaking to her from there really because i am not up for being told that anymore.

We had a lot of email communication but it was basically her ignoring everything i said and instead just focusing on one point of an email and telling me i was awful for not moving on with my life and that i blamed her and how dare I and I had so much anger in me and it was totally irrational.

So we stopped communicating that way and agreed that she would stay in touch with my husband to get updates on the kids. This all went fine until she started sending him emails saying that she was 'praying for my happiness' and bullshit like that which made me really angry.

So i told her to stop it and husband didnt know what to do so it was hard for him.




So thats the background, now 2 weeks ago Thursday, i got an email from her saying that she had researched BPD and agreed that i had it, that she had ignored the obvious signs of personality disorder because she wanted a perfect family and it was getting in the way of that. She said that she wanted to be a part of my family life now and didnt understand why issues in the past were getting in the way of that.

I sent one back basically saying that BPD is a product of abuse in childhood and that she was not prepared to lose this 'golden boy' image of my brother in order to validate me and i was not interested in a world where i constantly had to scream to be heard, it hurts my head and its created real damage within me.

she ignored all of this and focused on the last line which was that i agreed that it was nicer for me and the kids to have her around sometimes.

So eventually, after many emails i got her to understand why it was so hard to grow up never being heard and being treated like a thug (like with the knife) and never helped to see how i could communicate with people better.

So i thought we were getting somewhere and i was putting numbers by paragraphs on a very long email detailing everything so she would actually answer it rather than avoid it, but i did say to her that it was not acceptable for her to make me feel guilty for being angry with her, that i didnt anymore and also that i do still have flashbacks and emotional issues stemming from my childhood and that she would have to work with me to deal with those things

so she sends an email (about 4 days ago now) saying 'I think we both need to go and have a think about everything'

and thats it, have heard nothing more

opened up to her, told her what i needed and what she needed to do, really allowed her an opening into my life and i feel like shes sent me an email telling me that she'll 'consider' whether its a good enough offer or not for her!

I dont know what to do now, i feel like just telling her to fuck off again but i dont know if thats a bit presumptuous .

I am happy to copy and paste a couple of the emails, or the last few or something that describes everything in detail but i wondered if anyone was up for helping me with this? Because i dont really know where else to turn right now and i could really do with some support... Thank you in advance.

[filee777]

She has sort of hinted towards me not speaking to the psychologist about my brother as a sign that it didn't happen, but that's not the case, until I was about 16 I thought it was totally normal between siblings and whenever I had spoken about it I was told off.

I still find it hard to talk about freely now, at 29 not least 12!

[EllaFitzgerald]

So the psychologist had no idea of the true situation? I suspect his conclusions might have been very different if he'd known what you were having to cope with.

[GlitteryShitandDanglyBaubles]

Hi filee777, I don't have time to post now but I will pop back later for a chat.

Keep talking.

[filee777]

I thought it was normal though.

When we were in the car back in February me and mum had a conversation that I don't think I can forget.

She was really aggressive with me and asking me why I didn't get on with my brothers and then told me that I was the difficult one, so I was trying to explain to her how I felt, i said 'do you know how it feels to just think you are worthless and that be your reality? '

She said 'no you'll have to explain it to me won't you (really aggressive) why would you feel like that? Me and your dad never made you feel like that'

So I said that brother used to tell me I was nothing and I totally believed him and she interrupted me

'No no no there were 5 people in that house F so how did YOU feel so worthless because he was not the only person around you'

I said that I couldn't explain why I believed him but I just did. I looked up emotional sibling abuse later on and I was in tears to find that I wasn't the only one or stupid to have just been living that, that it was normal for people tbc....

[filee777]

(sorry moved onto the big computer)

...

So yeah she made me feel like it was totally irrational for me to feel worthless and that 'life wasn't like that' or whatever

then when i got angry and told her to shut up, she said that 'i was living my anger' and that i should be 'ashamed of how angry i am with her' and that i needed professional help to 'deal with it'

It was horrible, she totally just refuted everything that i have not only been through but also come out the other side of. Its amazing, really, that i have such a loving relationship with my husband, that i have two children who are not fearful of me and who have a nice life.

I suppose i had convinced myself that she actually saw the truth and though didnt want to admit it, still saw it, but in that car she showed me very different.

[thetrackisback]

Hi I haven't got time to read the full thread but I honestly very much doubt you have borderline personality disorder. I have worked in mental health services and seriously you just don't sound to fit. People with BPD find all relationships difficult so how can you manage such a loving relationship. Your behaviour would be as such that you would need intervention from mental health services etc. if I was going to put a label on you are a victim of serious abuse and the treatment you need is for post traumatic stress disorder. Be kind to yourself and get the help you need. Step back from your family to give yourself time to heal.x

[thetrackisback]

I meant to say if you had BPD you wouldn't have such a loving relationship with your hubby!! Please it sounds like there is nothing wrong with you have just been on x horrible situation. X

[filee777]

He's had to work really hard at our relationship though, we both have and it is still hard from time to time. I think its wrong to say that people with BPD cannot have relationships, for a start it tends to ease off after about 25 and many people with intense BPD have relationships.

I am wondering if there is a way i can make a report of historical abuse but not press charges and for them not to know, just so that it flags up if he does do anything to his partner...

[EllaFitzgerald]

Of course you thought it was normal because, as children, we all think that our home lives are normal. It's only as we get older and see other families interacting that we realise that there is no normal.

I don't think she wants to see the truth, because then she'd have to examine her own behaviour and she clearly doesn't want to do that because it was bloody awful. I'm not convinced that it was you who needed to see the psychologist and some counselling now would probably help you tremendously.

[filee777]

yes I will do my best to get a psyche referral and meet with someone, I will definitely do that, i promise.

I am still umming and ahhing over what to do about my mother though, I know the vote has been unanimous but its very hard to just say 'fuck off' to your mother. Especially as she has helped us out, we have had good times together and i know that shes great with the kids.

The more and more time she spends 'thinking about' whether or not our relationship is worth the hassle is making my decision easier and easier though

[thetrackisback]

All relationships need work so that doesn't necessarily mean you have BPD. If you haven't got a formal diagnosis I would put that theory to bed and stop researching it. Please look up post traumatic stress first as this is the most likely cause of how you are feeling. I think you need to have a full assessment to prove that you haven't got it.

[EllaFitzgerald]

Counselling will help you make that decision though. If you decide that you don't want to cut her out completely, then it will help you with coping strategies for dealing with her.

[thetrackisback]

Please look after yourself OP and I think you definately need to look at the possibility that a) you are a normal person reacting to a horrible situation b) the people you live with seem to have a problem. 3) there isn't anything wrong with you. Xxx

[thetrackisback]

Lived with not live with now!

[filee777]

Just received this message

Hi F
I have written a draft response. I want to read it again tomorrow before I send it.
Just wanted you to know its still uppermost in my mind. Will probably send it tomorrow am.
Hope you had a good weekend.
Love mum

Sent from my iPad

[Hissy]

Great.

So she knows you'll be fretting all night and on tenterhooks.

You have to stop this torture Filée, you have to stop the emails.

If it comes to you, delete it without reading, or get H to do it for you. It'll just blame you for it all and $ake her look good. You knoe this, as this is what she does. What they all do.

[filee777]

Okay basically she sent her reply. I'll post it up when I can change the names on the big computer.

[Bedtime1]

Hi are you okay filee77

[wheredidiputit]

Hope you are ok filee.

I think having read your thread from the beginning the only people with a BPD are your mother and older brother, and I think your other brother and father enabled them both to miss treat your to protect themselves.

[filee777]

Hey just to let you know I am okay but things have happened almost laughably how you all predicted they would.

Full circle to 'but I was a great mother'

I am off to work now but will post again later thank you all for your support

[witheaero]

Filee777
You do know you are totally right about your situation
Take care of yourself OP
It is so easy to be misdiagnosed and Im sure a lot of people would keep questoning when they woul found themself dealing with circumstances like yours

[Latara]

Hope you are ok, can't believe your mum is communicating like this via email it seems so strange. Maybe make this the last lot of emails then take a step back. file the emails away and start from scratch with contact, but on your terms. Just an idea. Take care x

[DoubleLifeIsALifeHalved]

Oh OP, you've been through alot and my heart goes out to you.

When someone's been abused, and trying to heal, it can feel really important that the abuser reflects back the reality of what happened. It can feel the only way to make sense of it all, and the only way to move past it and start a journey away from the awfulness. I think alot of us on mumsnet have been there, trying to get this person to understand and validate your experiences.

But really, I'm not sure I ever heard of a case where the abuser has done this, as it involves them admitting what they did was wrong, and how 'big' what they did was, and how the effects of their abuse carry on to this day.

Abusive people aren't usually up for admitting all that, and don't want to give their 'victim' permission to grieve and move on. That would go against a lifetimes programming... They want the 'victim' to carry on being the cess pit of the family, the bad one, the blame carrier, to keep you in your place.

What I'm trying to say is please don't feel your future happiness and identity are based on her giving you permission to feel this way, to have experienced what you experienced... There are other, perhaps easier, ways to move forwards xxx

Whatever your mother thinks of her family, her relationship or her behaviour, she IS an abusive woman, who freely enabled her son (sons?) to abuse you and crush you. She stood by and not only allowed that to happen, but as the person in control, the authority figure, she made sure your voice was never heard and your needs never met.

Whatever her motivations, this is what she did to you, and this is never ever going to be ok. I mean, you might well be ok, but what she did, will never be ok! no matter how much victim blaming she does, or rewriting history she does.

Now here is just my thoughts on her replies to you, just a random person on the Internet... But just wondering if it feels helpful in any way. If not, ignore me x

Alot of her replies seem full of 'pretty words'. She wants to paint a picture of two siblings squabbling and disrupting her dreams of a happy family. She talks alot of her dreams of a happy family, and I suspect this is terribly important to her... I mean, she refused to acknowledge anything that wasn't in line with this vision, she seems to only see what your brother did to you as both of you making waves in this wonderful vision of happiness she wanted.

It's like she cared about you 'acting out' and refusing to believe in this utopia and her punishing you for daring to be unhappy when you were supposed to be a character in her happy little world. She didn't (doesn't?) care about you in your own right, your feelings and hurt and experiences. It's only what that meant for her...

If you look at it this way, as everything revolving around her, then it makes sense that she sees you and your brothers behaviour as equally bad for disturbing her world ie he beats you and breaks you as a person, you are affected by this and show your hurt... In her eyes, both need telling off 'fairly' as you've both hurt her perfect world. Then your brother can act smooth and pretend he's great, well that gets forgiveness as its not causing upset to her perfect world anymore. You with your hurt and trauma showing rawly and needing urgent help... Well that disrupts her world longer so you get more vicious blame for that.

This is a very sick way to live and it's not your fault at all. :(

[filee777]

Here is her response to me, I'm at work so can't change the names unfortunately but hey ho.

Here is my response, I hope this helps. I hope it supports you in trying to come to terms with it all and challenging that voice in your head when it tells you that you?re not worthy of all the good things you have and should have in the future. The truth is you were and are very much loved. You had parents who made mistakes bringing you up and you have horrible memories of your childhood but I hope you can say you know that none of it was because you were not loved because you were and you are. That is the truth I hope you can focus on and that will help you deal with this.

First I will do my best to fill in some blanks about the dates.

I was at home for 10 years from when M was born in 1978. I then went back to college on a part time basis only during term time between from 9.30 to 3pm. X was our next door neighbour, H, and she looked after you until I got home. I then worked part time, fitting in with school hours until I joined my place of work. I started with my place of work in 1991 when you were 7. R picked you up after school. I can?t remember for how long but it worked well and the arrangement lasted long enough for her to save to go to Canada on a trip.
I never worked on Fridays evenings as no one wants to see a person from the bank on Fridays and it was only rarely I worked Mon evenings for the same reason.
M and I were both at boarding school at age 11 and 10 respectively and until M was 15 and I 13. You were at T school for a year when you were 10.


I know you are left with the perception that it was all about money with me and I have put hardly anything into parenting or caring. I think it is a tragedy that you believe that because it denies that you were loved and cared about and it isn?t true. You were, very much. As a full time mum, I looked after and loved my babies just as you do. I was often on my own as your Dad was overseas. I had no parents or family nearby. I can assure you that you were well fed and clothed and played with and very much LOVED. I did all the things that a mum would do, juggled the ?getting 3 kids ready in the morning? taking one to school, one to playschool and then trying to fill in housework and laundry and shopping before it was time for the pick up from school again. I remember when we got home how I would race up and down that hill twice a day to drop off M and I and then race back up with you to take you to playschool. Your Dad and I went through the childhood illnesses, sleepless nights, nightmares, tooth fairy duty, hiding presents and staying up til 1 o clock in the morning to wrap them so they were ready for when you woke up on Christmas morning, tiptoeing into your rooms with the stockings, hiding Easter eggs, going to parents evening, school fetes.

I then went back to work part time after college and finally took a job with the bank that allowed me to start late so I didn't have to drop you with a child minder every day before school. Yes, it meant I had to work in the evenings 3 nights a week. Yes, I continued to study so that I could build a good career. I loved being able to buy you things, I loved that we could go on holiday. I loved that at Christmas and birthdays I could get you something you wanted so you wouldn?t feel less special than other kids. I loved that we had a decent car and clothes.

I spent time and effort like most parents supporting you in your hobbies, dropping you off at friends houses, organizing birthday parties, doing things with you at the weekend and during the holidays. Taking your friends with us on holiday, taking you to the fair, watching your performances at Stagecoach, taking you there every week. Learning your lines with you for the performances you did at school and college. Decorating your bedroom with you, taking you shopping (even though you were never one for shopping unless it was La Sensa or for boots). I know you are understandably focused on the problems but I think it?s important to acknowledge that there was love there Fiona. It wasn?t just about the money.

Many kids in times past and today are left without mum and dad at home 24/7. Not many parents have to deal with the extreme situation that developed between you and Ian. It was horrible and it was hard. I appreciate for you especially, it was no joy for your dad and I believe me. We were out of our depth. None of us deserve what has happened as a result. We all lost. The effort that went in did not create the outcome we planned, especially not for you.

I was definitely and frequently out of my depth with you as a teenager. Again, I know you don?t acknowledge it now it but I did my best to support you, to stay close to you, to reassure you that you were loved and to try and keep you positive when things went wrong at school or college. I just keep hearing myself say I tried my best and I loved you. Its true. Its also true that I have not stopped loving you as an adult. That I?ve tried to support you and help you and be there with you when you needed me.

I honestly did the best I could with what I had and what I knew and what I thought was right with everyone's interests being considered in the short and long term. You have given me information now that I never had before. I can?t agree that I didn?t invest energy or effort into you or the family and I cannot agree that I have ever deliberately allowed things to continue or meant to cause you harm. You were very much loved from before you were born and me and your Dad did what we thought was right in very difficult circumstances. We all deserved something different than we got.

I wanted and worked for a family as much as most and more than many have. The reality is very different than the hopes and dreams I had as a young girl and a young mum. My hopes for family were as real for mine as yours are for yours. My efforts haven?t got me what I hoped for, either for you or for me or anyone else. The reality I have to face is that you are questioning whether I deserve to see you or my grandsons or to even be told how you and they are. I know you say it?s not in an effort to punish me. I am not sure that intended punishment would feel more harsh.

Please remember that whatever faults I have and mistakes I have made I am a human being just as you are. I am not less deserving of anyone else to have their dreams of children and a husband that love me come true.

Please don?t let what was wrong wipe out everything else so that they are the only memories F. It is not true that you were not loved or that you were deliberately treated poorly.

Your primary job is to be a mum now. Being a daughter, sister, other duties to extended family are secondary and far less important. One thing I know for sure is that you will make decisions based on the best for your children and Liam. I am glad that you approach life that way. I am glad and proud that you are so devoted to them.

You have a lot to come to terms with. It is up to you what you do next. In regards to if and how I might be forgiven, and whether I will be allowed to fit into your life then right now you don?t have to do anything. If you feel it best to leave things then do that and I will respect it. When and if you feel its right to do something different then you can act on that. If you have more questions I will be honest in my replies. If you want to write and tell me you are angry with me then I can take that if it helps you or if you want to tell me about your progress then hearing from you will be very special for me. I won?t stop hoping that things will be better between us or close any doors from this side.

All my love
Mum.

[wheredidiputit]

Filee you could ask Mumsnet HQ to edit your post for you if you would prefer names to be removed.