husband always drinking

[Dorange]

My H works very hard but whenever he is off work he is drinking at home (goes to pub occasionally). He never gets drunk but I find it not necessary and expensive. Probably makes him lazy too. Even though he does stuff around the house he could probably be more active. For example: last Sunday there was a spring festival I was looking forward to go to. He was in two minds if he would come or not. I let him know that I intended to be very busy walking around, checking everything and meeting people. He decided to stay at home and even though he did a lot of housework he was drinking alone (didn't get drunk). I got home and told him I met his mate at the pub I went to (to meet a friend) after I saw the whole of the festival. He than was slightly annoyed he missed the opportunity (not to see te friend nor the festival) but the opportunity to go to a pub. I drink very occasionally with a meal and just can't understand the need to drink at any time if you are not working. Rant over.

[Dorange]

Thank you all so much for your wise advice and for taking the time to answer me.

[Dorange]

he says he loves you but he treats you as if you are irrelevant to him
This was true in the past. The past that I am not able to let go. He has being putting in a lot of effort lately. Real change. I am the one who treats him as irrelevant at present.

You could choose to simply go and do what you want to do regardless of whether he comes along or not
This is what I have being doing, always, even before getting pregnant, I travelled with friends whit out him...also because he works shifts, and sometimes weekends, it means I can never plan that much with him in mind anyway so I usually plan to myself and my DC only and I am so used to it that I don't really mind uf he doesn't come. Bust when is a special occasion or when I can't/won't take DC with me, he takes time off work.

take up hobbies that occupy your mind and give you a sense of accomplishment. Let him sit and get pissed all the time if that's what he wants to do
This is one of the areas I am working to improve. I am doing a new course to enhance ,my skills at work place, took up 2 new hobbies, re-joining a spiritual group and even looking at more classes however it is still difficult to attend since he work shifts.

another option is to think "sod that for a game of soldiers" and think that if you're doing that you're pretty much just living the life of a single parent anyway so you might as well go the whole hog and leave him. That way at least you have the chance of going on to form a relationship with someone new who doesn't drain the life out of you
I think about it a lot, but I want to be careful. Most of the time it doesn't seem it is the right time yet, even though we are unhappy. Or maybe I am also just creating excuses.

or you could carry on hoping that one day he'll wake up and start seeing the world through your eyes and decide to change. All the time you're playing the "wait and hope" game, your life is slowly trickling through your fingers
Maybe if I carry on leaving my way and let him leave his own way, he will be the one regretting his waste of time later in life...

how long are you prepared to wait in hope that he will magically change from the selfish drunk that he is into the caring and involved husband you think he should be? You've given him seven years to change and he hasn't managed it yet. How much more of your life are you willing to let go by?
He has managed to change in those 7 years. It is a lot better than it was before. He isn't a drunk. He tries to be more caring and affectionate I shut him off.

but when the differences get too great or too annoying then what you're looking at is 'incompatibility' ... and then only a fool would accept that as a way of life.
This was exactly the point i was trying to make during the last conversation. I am sure this is in his head and he is processing it. I need to set up a occasion for a conversation. But we need to talk a lot more before I just demand separation or divorce. I need him to understand me better.

[Shakey1500]

Cracking post from Snorbs

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

"Am I not accepting him for who he is?"

(Snorbs was right about me meaning taking responsibility for yourself) As for accepting people...to a point. No two people are exactly the same, occasionally 'opposites attract' and it works, but when the differences get too great or too annoying then what you're looking at is 'incompatibility' ... and then only a fool would accept that as a way of life.

[Snorbs]

I just want him to be a normal person who can be excited about going to a Local Spring Arts Festival and have a good time even if there is no alcohol involved.

You want him to be someone different to who he really is. You don't have the right to insist that he lives his life the way you want him to. You don't have the right to insist that he is the husband you think he could or should be. All the time you're sitting there thinking about how he should want to do this or should want to do that you're ignoring the reality that, quite simply, he doesn't want to do what you want to do.

That leaves you with several choices. You could choose to simply go and do what you want to do regardless of whether he comes along or not. Go to the Arts Festival, take your daughter, have fun, talk to interesting people. Take up hobbies that occupy your mind and give you a sense of accomplishment. Let him sit and get pissed all the time if that's what he wants to do.

Al Anon (the friends and family off-shoot of Alcoholics Anonymous) call this "Detachment with love". You carry on making the most of your life and if there are times when your husband wants to join in then great but, if not, you're still getting out there and doing what you want. That's one option.

Another option is to think "sod that for a game of soldiers" and think that if you're doing that you're pretty much just living the life of a single parent anyway so you might as well go the whole hog and leave him. That way at least you have the chance of going on to form a relationship with someone new who doesn't drain the life out of you.

Or you could carry on hoping that one day he'll wake up and start seeing the world through your eyes and decide to change. All the time you're playing the "wait and hope" game, your life is slowly trickling through your fingers.

How long are you prepared to wait in hope that he will magically change from the selfish drunk that he is into the caring and involved husband you think he should be? You've given him seven years to change and he hasn't managed it yet. How much more of your life are you willing to let go by?

This isn't a dress rehearsal. This is the one life you're going to get. Use it wisely.

[Snorbs]

What he says is one thing. What he does is another. If the two don't match up - eg, he says he loves you but he treats you as if you are irrelevant to him - then pay more attention to his actions rather than his words.

I could be wrong but I don't think Cogito was talking about taking responsibility for how you two have ended up where you have ended up. Rather, I think it's more about taking responsibility for your future.

[Dorange]

But I don't think I want to separate though. I just want him to be a normal person who can be excited about going to a Local Spring Arts Festival and have a good time even if there is no alcohol involved. He asked if I wanted him to come and my honest answer was 'whatever'. I wanted him to come because he wanted to, because it is a nice thing to do on a sunday. Much better than staying at home drinking and watching TV. But that is my way of life. Am I not accepting him for who he is?

[Dorange]

I don't want to think I'm responsible for this mess but I can see the roots of the problem is me no being attracted sexually and my withdraw of affection. Its hard for him to understand that he play a big part for the change of my feelings/my lack of respect and admiration for him and he thinks it is just a matter of forgiving/forgetting/leaving in the past. Well, I'm trying but I can't just do it. Probably because I don't love him as a husband and that is the truth.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

'I love you' and 'I'm sorry' are two of the most meaningless phrases in the English language IMHO. Actions speak louder than words. As for bad guys and victims... you have to rise above that kind of childish stuff. Taking responsibility often means doing unpopular things...

[Dorange]

I hear. I would rather he didn't use the I love you card and were willing to face the situation. I just wish he could behave like an adult. I will rock the boat and be perceived like the bad one while he can play the victm game.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

I can't say whether it's a waste of time to go the counselling route or not. All I can judge from what you've described is that you're wasting time now. Something has to change and I'm sorry but all the stuff about loving you and keep trying just rings rather hollow. Equally the concept of 'fixing' sexual attraction is incredibly difficult because it's an emotion... not a rational process at all. If I stood you in a room with 10 men, picked one out for you at random and said 'go to counselling with this man until you find him sexy...' you'd look at me like I'd gone nuts. You either fancy someone or you don't.

And then separation. There's pain and resentment whether you stay together or split up. He will never be 'ready'. There's no good outcome here... so you have to plump for the least worst.

[Dorange]

Whenever I talk about separation since it is clearly we aren't happy together, he gets really hurt and never agrees. We don't own anything, we leave with relative comfort but the 3 of us would have worse living condition if separated. I knows this isn't enough reason to stay, but we are not looking to have other relationship with other people so it sounds sensible to stay together. He says he still loves me and wants to stay and keeping trying. I would be willing o stay if he opens himself up to do something else with his life a part from work and drink and actually having fun while doing it since when there isn't drinking involved (like my child's birthday, he doesn't enjoy himself). But I don't know if there is any fixing for the lack of sexual attraction from me? So, should we try counselling to improve communication or it would be a waste of time? As he isn't ready for separation, it will cause more pain and resentment than necessary...

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

Everything you're describing sounds like a relationship heading for the rocks, if not actually on them already. If you can't communicate honestly, if it tends to descend to blame and personal attack rather than anything constructive, then you're looking at years of increasing distance and resentment, living 'alongside' each other rather than together, avoiding the elephant in the room (by staring at the bottom of a glass in his case) & everyone increasingly unhappy as time goes on.... your DC included.

That's the path you're on - emotional torpor - and I'm afraid only something fairly serious or drastic is going to change it. You can either do what a lot of people do and waste more time waiting for this thunderbolt moment to happen from outside or you can take the initiative yourself and force the pace.

[Dorange]

Wow, Cogito. You are spot on. And all the other posters too thank you so much for understanding, I thought I would be told off. I tried having conversations with him but he is really closed when sober and generally won't be honest with his feelings and pretend everything is ok. I think he can't face the issues. I am not keen to chat when he is drunk however this os when he opens up and reveals his true thoughts and feelings....but won't listen properly/pay attention to what I'm saying or even remember the conversation which is frustrating. I also think he is immature. Whenever we have the opportunity to talk about our problems, he gets resentful when I reveal negative feelings and always play the victim card. He points out my mistakes in order to hurt me or 'get one up', to show me I'm not perfect etc, instead of doing a helpful criticism. Me being from other culture is also source of problem apparently, since the straight to the point style of my speech hurt his feeling and I sometimes miss out the subtle english way of telling something straight. He can't be direct and straight (unless we are fighting) and keeping going on and on in circles to the point I loose focus and get distracted.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Your child however, should not and actually cannot be the glue that bonds you together. If you are really together now only for the child's sake then this is not ideal either.

Quite apart from his drinking problem there are many other problems in your relationship. What do you get out of this relationship now, what is keeping you within this?. Your relationship sounds like it is dying off.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

Leaving ideas of alcoholism or alcohol abuse aside, you're worried that the amount of alcohol he drinks and the amount of time he spends at the pub affects the family budget, life together as a family and, to a lesser extent, his physical and mental health. More importantly, you think this behaviour highlights a loss of connection and lack of engagement in general in your relationship, that you are gradually drifting apart, losing respect and affection for each other as you live increasingly separate & rather unhappy lives.

Can you see yourselves having a reasonable conversation about all of the above? Do you want to resolve it? Do you think he wants to resolve it? Could you have a conversation perhaps about where you see yourselves in five or ten years' time? That can be revealing. I don't think there are any easy paths from where you are now but I think you need to communicate with each other very honestly if things aren't just going to run into a brick wall.

[Dorange]

Things went this way:
We were living together, but sharing with friends.
I worked, was independent. Unplanned pregnancy, student visa, not a real career just a job.
He had a 'career' and full time job but wasn't well paid.
We decided to try and create a family, so I stayed in the country even though I knew deep down we didn't have a lot in common...(but hey, I had loads in common with all of my Exs and it never worked anyway) However, got a bit mad during pregnancy, too worried about everything, worked until 2 weeks before Dc was born. Everything 2nd hand, from my maternity clothes to cot and cot mattress (absolutely love hand me downs but it is sad when you walk past mother care and have to turn your face away with a tear, I was afraid to see the price of baby stuff tbh)
I couldn't go back to work after baby since we wouldn't be able to afford childcare both in low paid jobs and not entitled to benefits.
We shared home until my daughter was 8 months old, than moved to a bedsit, i couldn't afford an ice cream on a hot day, I was very unhappy from the day I found out I was pg tbh. And always blamed him for not being successful enough to provide even the basics(I know, I know). Than he goes and drinks the little money we have away. Bloody Hell.
So I withdrew affection and he who always was very affectionate feels rejected all the time.
Things are better now because I too work hard, save, manage shopping/finances and spent the last 6/7 years worrying.
I wonder where we would be if I wasn't the sort of woman I am now.

[Shakey1500]

Oh I can so relate to the anger and resentment. As mentioned, DH needed no encouragement to be in the pub whatsoever. This was before DS came along though so I can only imagine how it must have felt for you.

Are you saying that back then, you told him how you felt, then he stopped and got more involved? And he's aware that you're unhappy now (about different things as well as the alcohol) but isn't prepared to take steps to fix?

Sorry, re-reading it sounds like I'm putting words in your mouth. Not meant to. One thing I will say from my perspective ref- the resentment is that a line has to be drawn if he listened and changed. But it would appear that you are really unhappy about other recent/ongoing things and I understand how it's natural to use his pre pub days as the starting point.

[Dorange]

Dc is 6.
He says he doesn't want to talk about his life/problems/feelings to a stranger, so counselling suggestions never worked (he is a bit 'ignorant' like this.
I got pregnant very early in the relationship - 8 months - we didn't know each other very well.
We had loads of financial problems, visa problems, he has problems at work too but Dc is what bond us together.
We are in a better position now, financially and more mature too. He drinks less, is more involved, I am no longer a bored housewife, I work and have my money and Dc is 6 so it is a lot easier all around, but I guess the problems in the past worn me out and I can't let go or forgive...e.g: he going to the pub and coming drunk years ago when I was bored with a baby/toddler or spending money in alcohol when we were skint.

[Shakey1500]

Well there's no LTB from me at present

You clearly don't sound happy When did it all start to change? Did something happen to prompt a change or has it been a gradual decline?

I'm assuming (perhaps wrongly) that he wouldn't be too interested in counselling/therapy. Or would he? If he knew just how unhappy you were. Would you? How old is/are DC by the way?

[Dorange]

I have spoken to him about him spending too much time at the pub when finishing work earlier because since he works so much, spending free time at the pub for me was just selfish and irresponsible. Also he would get home drunk and try to talk about our problems and it obviously usually ended up bad. After loads of conversations, he stopped going out to the pub and getting drunk and became more involved in the house. He always had a good relationship with DC so this isn't a issue.
We have problems in our marriage due lack of interests in common, he doesn't have any interests, hobbies, nothing, I feel there isn't intellectual feed for me, nothing to talk about. Sex is bad, I don't feel attracted to him.
Now I know it will turn into a LTB thread wont it?
I tried to mention depression but than he wont accept or probably say if we had more sex he wouldn't seem depressed...no need to say I feel less inclined to have sex with him after hearing this.

[Shakey1500]

Have you told him how you feel?

There's obviously problems as you say, with intimacy, social aspects. Could he be depressed do you think, and use alcohol as a crutch of sorts?

[Dorange]

Ok.
I am not sure if he drinks 6 cans of beer per day, I am not counting but he usually goes to the corner shop and comes back with 6 cans, sometimes, because that is the way they sell it (obviously he could buy less). Sometimes are cans left in the fridge and sometimes he fall asleep without finishing (waste).
He will drink wine if come from work and needs a drink to wind down and there are no beers.
He work shifts, usually late at night, sometimes 14 to 15 hours a day so he says he needs a drink after work to relax. But when he is having a day off he will slowly drink at home too.
I grew up with my dad being a alcoholic and my mum also drinking a lot so at first I accepted this as normal behaviour, but since I drink very little, I just don't see the need to drink so much. I associate drinking with party, celebrations, friends, so for me drinking alone, at home, during the day, just because you are having a day off is weird and waste of time and money.
We have intimacy problems. He is alone, always complains about not having friends and he doesn't have any hobbies or interests a part from work and home...he also lacks self confidence due to poor education, dyslexia and problems growing up, so yes, I probably make excuses for him...

[Shakey1500]

24 cans across 4 days as pointed out,is above guidelines. So is it affecting your relationship,his ability as a parent or his work? Obviously you are concerned enough to post,have you spoken to him?

As background my Dh was a heavy drinker pre having DS and I doubt we'd still be together had we not relocated. Whereas before he would be in the pub at any given opportunity almost every day,now he has a couple of cans indoors every other night and go to the pub average once a fortnight. He probably does drink the guidelines most weeks but it in no way limits his parenting,work or marriage so I'm ok with it. Helps that I've seen how far he's come etc

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I was not altogether surprised to read that your Dad was an alcoholic; we learn about relationships first and foremost from our parents and you were certainly taught some damaging lessons that likely remain unresolved to this day.

You have a choice re this man, your child does not.