Workaholic DP says I'M neglecting HIM!

[happyclapper]

Have been with DP for 13 yrs. Have 2 DS 10 and 5. After 2 redundancies and a lot of debt which we are half way through clearing, DP now has a good, well paid job which means him working long hours, sometimes away for a night or 2. On top of that he has a hobby which brings in extra cash but which takes up alot of time in the evenings and at weekends.
He does nothing to do with the home apart from help with the kids when he can. Doesn't even change the proverbial light bulb. But thats fine with me as I have enough time to take care of those things and he definitely doesn't.
I work part-time in a job I enjoy but does not have the oppurtunity to increase hours.
DP is very stressed and unhappy in his job and has said almost on a weekly basis he is going to look for something else. This is fine by me, infact I want him to work less or drop his sideline to allow for more family time but in reality this isn't going to happen because he wont give anyhing up.
Our family time amounts to and hour before bedtime with the kids sometimes and a couple of hours on a Sunday afternoon.
If he has a free hour in the evening he goes for a run and on Saturdays he plays football and is gone from 12.30 till 6.
I am not a very demonstrative person , except with my DS, but he has recently accused me of negleting him emotionaly and not giving him enough love.
I would like to know when ffs I am supposed to do this as he is never in the same f**ing room as me!
And excuse me, but what love do I get apart from when he wants sex which he is quite happy to have even when he knows I get nothing from it.
We have had sex counselling with regard to this which basically boiled down to the councilor telling him to make some time for me.
The thought of splitting up just makes me feel sick. I would do anything to keep us together for DS's sake but I can't fake feelings I don't have because I'm living with someone who is so wrapped up in his own life.

[AnyFucker]

Honey, perhaps if she wears some lippie when she goes to watch him play football ?

whaddaya think ?

[Fairenuff]

actions usually speak louder than words to men

And to women.

[arsenaltilidie]

I'm going to blunt, if you dont show him affection its only a matter of time before he gets it from another women.

I understand mumsnet tries to protect put upon wifes and show them they is light at the end of the tunnel, but this is certainly not the case of a put upon wife. I cant believe but im not surprised by some of the advice given here, 'leave your husband..he is no good. '
From his perspective, what do you bring to the marriage?

^I always turn away or push him off but I'm afraid I just can't turn it on when it suits him.
All he wants at the end of the day is affection not always sex so maybe if I put my own feelings to one side we may be able to get back on track.
he would be happy for me to do whatever I want in my free time.
He has never expected me to wash, iron or even cook for him and to be honest I didn't for a long time but now I obviously do because it needs to be done.
What he does want is ny love and affection which isn't unreasonable but I find it hard to show and thats his deal breaker.
he has basically made me poor and unable to support myself^

OP your marriage seems to be worth fighting for, you have been through a lot, he is a good father and a good provider. Not attacking you in any way but the problem here is you are not affectionate enough and he doesn't spend enough time.
Being honest with yourself:
Do you resent him because you feel he destroyed your career?
Do you resent him for the time he spends on his me time?
Do you think he doesn't appreciate the things you do around the house anymore?
I hope at the very least you find him sexy??
These could explain the issue why you find it hard to be affectionate.
Half the battle is done when you make an effort.

Him on the other hand needs to either chose how much me time he has, either stop running or maybe once a week.
Or Quit football.
He needs to incorporate a WE time.
Could be anything from cuddling up the sofa to etc.

You marriage doesn't sound bad, it seems to be just going through a dip, he probably feel you don't appreciate the things he does.
Half the battle is done when you BOTH make the effort.
I suggest you both need to agree on and put your foot down on WE time.

[Lavenderhoney]

Bit late to this but why is the sat football 12.30 til 6? Most football is first thing sat morning. And why don't you take your ds? A football match is only 90 mins isn't it?

He should be taking your ds to footie and watching with the other dads.
He needs to see that he has to forgoe this for his ds. It's part of growing up and putting your family first. My dh has hobbies he hasn't done since the birth of our first child and although he misses them I'm buggered if he is going to spend spare time like that. He already works 16 hours a day and often weekends " for the family" He spends his spare time with the dc. I spend all mine with the dc too, and our set up is pretty much like yours op, except my dh doesnt behave like a single bloke with no kids when he is off work.

If he's not there, ie away, do you miss his contribution? Or is his contribution money? He won't get the time back with the dc. And he will wonder why they don't bother with him when they are older.

We also need to instigate date nights and get our bond back. So this thread is very helpful to me.

[HoneyandRum]

Fairenuff in my experience women are very keen on words, generally more than men. Look at Mumsnet, not many men on here really, most bookclubs are all female and women buy more books than men. Actions do speak louder to women but we do love to talk and are wired to "tend and befriend" rather than "fight or flight" when under stress. Talking is a stress reliever and a connector for women more than men.

I guess my only point, if I have one, is DO something different because talking to him is making no difference. I have one of these at home and have had similar issues, and I think more should be tried before she throws the towel in.

[Fairenuff]

arsenal some important subtleties which are clear if you read between the lines:

I always turn away or push him off but I'm afraid I just can't turn it on when it suits him.

He has had counselling and been advised that OP is more likely to want sex she feels an emotional connection. The counsellor advised finding more time to spend with OP. He has refused to do this.

All he wants at the end of the day is affection not always sex so maybe if I put my own feelings to one side we may be able to get back on track.

OP is suggesting that she ignores her own feelings of resentment and fakes affection in order to please her dh. This will only make her feel less significant.

He would be happy for me to do whatever I want in my free time.

He doesn't spend time with her. She wants to do things together, she wants him to show that he actually admires her, respects her, enjoys her company, has a laugh with her, cares for her, etc.

He has never expected me to wash, iron or even cook for him and to be honest I didn't for a long time but now I obviously do because it needs to be done.

OP has phrased this as a choice but then clarifies by adding that he doesn't do it. So whilst he might not expect her to, he really doesn't care who does it as long as it's done for him. He is only concerned about himself again.

What he does want is ny love and affection which isn't unreasonable but I find it hard to show and thats his deal breaker.

He wants love and affection purely because he expects it. He does not feel that he has to make any effort himself. There is nothing that he does for her on this list, or with her.

[HoneyandRum]

He goes to work and provides the main source of their income, I would say that's something he does for her and the whole family. If he wasn't doing it for her he wouldn't be there.

More love and affection from her could produce the changes she wants, it's a two-way street. Would you want to change for someone who blames you for all the problems in the marriage and shows you no love and affection? Sounds like they could both step up and make some sacrifices for the other to get the marriage back on track.

[arsenaltilidie]

First of all this is not a feminist issue as Anyfucker is trying to suggest. This is marriage issue where the OP has probably lost a bit of attraction for her husband.

Fairenuff He rightly expects affection from his partner but she is not providing. That is the same as a woman complain to her husband she feels neglected. If she is not careful she will push him into another woman's arms. Its only a matter of time before he confides to a female 'friend.' Same as if it was a woman, it will only be a matter of time before a male compliments her on the dress.

You can't expect him to come home after a 15 hour day and do the chores that needs to be done too, whilst she had free time during the day.
He makes sure she has everything she wants.
He will go out with her if she wants regardless of how tired he feels.
He even drops off the car and walk the remaining 2 miles for her.
I don't get the impression that the OP's husband restricts her in anyway.

What does she do for her husband? what's her equivalent of dropping the car and walking for 2 miles.

He needs to quit running or football but she needs to hug him and kiss him more. Even doing things for him like Honey suggested, going to watch him play football.
They need a WE time, they need to date again.
Half the battle is does she really want to change.

[practicality]

The thing is O.P. nobody wants to spend time with an entitled whinger.

I think you are being really harsh on your husband. After your first post, which seemed quite unfair,you have then dripped in a more balanced view of your relationship.

I think your husband is entitled to time to pursue his own hobbies outside of work. He is working, the majority of his time in an environment which he doesn't enjoy and you get acres of time, as a consequence to follow your own interests.

If you wanted to pursue a career I bet he would fully support you. But you don't want to do that do you? You will take the money and the lifestyle as a consequence of his efforts though. I know you contribute but it is not at the same level.

Personally, I think you would be better splitting. You may then have to learn what it is like to run a household, take care of your children for your share and bear the financial burden that this entails in terms of full time work. Plenty do.

Your husband could then do a job that meant the full financial burden wasn't on him,freeing up more time to spend with your children and a better work/life balance. He could then have a happier physical relationship with someone else. You could pursue your interests during his access times.

A happier outcome for all.

Otherwise you could sit down and discuss how you can make a bigger financial contribution to your household so he doesn't have to continue in a job that is making him unhappy. You could then divide your free time up fairly, with say Saturday being a family day and alternate Sundays being your own respective free days to follow your interests.

[Pilgit]

Haven't read the entire thread so apologies if these comments are off the mark however my experience may be of help. I am a child of just the sort of marriage you are describing. Workaholic father (he did love it though) mother who subjegated her wants and desires for the sake of a 'happy' home and family. My sister and I could see it as we grew up that the simmering low level resentment was driving a wedge between our parents. Dad just didn't get it - we were incredibly well off, lived in a gorgeous house, mum controlled the finances (just as well as dad is crap with money), she had freedom to do whatever she wanted. In a lot of ways your description of your DH is my dad (except the playing with the children and having hobbies other than work parts!) he just couldn't see that he was doing anything wrong. Mum couldn't communicate to him that anything was wrong and how wrong it was. The wedge between them came unbearable and the fighting was abysmal but the silent years when they stopped fighting were far worse as we knew that they'd stopped caring enough to fight. Dad ended up having an affair and leaving for the other woman. All of the text book 'she doesn't understand me' 'emotionally unavailable' etc etc etc statements came out of him.

My dad is not a bad man. My mum is not a bad woman. BUT my dad was pig-headed and didn't understand and my mum chose to martyr herself thinking that would sort it out rather than address the issues they had. Neither of these things were ways to act that were conducive to a happy home. We knew the marriage wasn't normal and we spent out lives walking on egg shells wandering what he was going to do next and how mum was going to react next. Your DC will pick up on it!

Contrast this with the parents of a close friend who when she was 8 decided that the fighting was too much, they liked each other but being married to each other was a mistake. They decided to divorce. She had 2 totally engaged parents that were still friendly and close friends in later years and as a result has a very solid example of what marriage should be.

Things are salvagable and are worth saving. My advice (for what it's worth) is to try and get DH to understand that there is an issue that needs addressing. Remove fault from the equation - no one is to blame (or everyone is) but it is a problem that you need to fix together and that is worth fixing. Then get some counselling from a marriage counsellor. It really helped my marriage as it enabled us to talk about things without slinging insults and blame around (something I find very hard as I am a bit of a bitch)

[happyclapper]

Sorry fpr going AWOL. Couldn't get online.
Thank -you for your posts. I am relieved to see there are some more measured responses which are actually acknowledging the effort he is putting into the relationship.
In reply to some questions, I was not pressured to give up my career . It was a huge relief and luxury to be able to stay at home and looke after the children and I don't miss my job at all. It just does obviously make me very dependant which neither of us has a problem with but obviously becomes a problem if things don't work out.
DP doesn't expect me to do anything for him. Infact it was a struggle at first to get him to accept me doing stuff as he had always lived alone until we moved in together and he remains appreciative.
I am far from a downtroden, put upon person. I have a great, stressfree life that works well for me, apart from this not insignificant issue.
With regard to spending time with me, this is an issue in the everyday routine. Not in regard to going out together when, true to form, he puts in a huge effort to make sure we have a good time.
Arsenal and Honey, you both make some great points which I agree with and thank-you for taking a more balanced view than the LTB MNers.

[Ginebra]

Happyclappy, that's what you've taken from this thread?? seriously?

That you can do more for him? That is the balanced view you needed?

[AnyFucker]

Op, you should be grateful for how he provides for the family and stfu asking for anything more

He deserves ALL the leisure time available for himself because he brings home the bacon

There, perhaps that's even more of the kind of perspective you were looking for ?

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

That you can do more for him?. Oh dear lord!.

He has got you well trained hasn't he?. So you will put up with this workaholic of a man, his all encompassing hobbies, his lack of time spent with you as a family mainly because he is putting other things first, his lack of affection and your crap sex life to maintain the status quo!. Jolly good:(

Re this part of your comment:-
"DP doesn't expect me to do anything for him".

He does not have to ask you to do anything because you already do everything at home now!. This man does not even change a light bulb

I think you are basically going to stay because a) you are thinking of your children (you have previously stated that you would do anything to keep us together for DS's sake) and b) you are totally afraid of being seen as a so called failure if you were to call time on this. Thus this sorry cycle continues.

[happyclapper]

No actually what I should do is break a family up because DP wants to play 1 game of football a week and wants me to show him some affection and is working all the hours God sends to provide a nice life for me and our sons without actually asking very much from me. Bastard!

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I have never written the LTB line, I have asked you to consider what you get out of this relationship now with this man. You eventually came up with this when I asked you what your friends think of him:-

"Attila, you are right . Our friends say words to the effect of ' oh He's great but I couldn't live with him'. And yes, Saturday if a right off as far ar kids are concerned.
I've just tried to list what I'm getting out of the relationship and have realised that it is just the material things.
If I could stay in our home with enough money to live off I'm not sure I do need him around. I'm living like a single parent most of the time anyway.
Don't know if I've got the courage to demand he changes or we split up. As you've gathered he seems unwilling or unable to so I would prob be ending it.
I can't do that to my boys. They do love him".

This is why I have stated you are staying now primarily for your boys and you are afraid to call time on this through lack of courage.

You may well come to change your view over time. I sincerely hope for now at least you have made the right decision. If it turns out to be wrong I will not say I told you so.

[happyclapper]

BTW. and I'm not making this up but he has just phoned me to say he has sent his CV to a recruiting agency to find something less demanding.
Lucky I didn't pack my bags last night!
Not saying everythings fine but its a step in the right direction.

[AnyFucker]

Strangely, it's just those things that you said were spoiling your relationship in your op

So there is no problem then ?

That's good

One wonders why this thread was ever started

Fwiw, I didn't say you should end your marriage, but you are well within your rights to expect more from it

If you are happy with your lot then, we can all go off and enjoy our Friday

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Its not just the football however is it?.

These are the facts from your posts, this is purely what you have stated:-

He is in a job that he detests and moans to you often about it. He does seemingly nothing to change his situation
He does not do anything chores wise
He wants you to have sex even though you get nothing from it
He accuses you of neglecting him emotionally and you rightly respond that how can you give him love and affection when he is hardly ever there.
You have previously been together to counselling, the counsellor told him to make more time for you and he has not done so
You have also stated the thought of splitting makes you feel sick

If someone else was telling you this, what would your response be?.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

HC,

cross posted. I have just seen that he has contacted another job agency to find something less demanding.

As you say this is a step in the right direction but I would have to state this is only a small step; there are still problems here in your relationship. Think you want to sort this but the question also here is does he?.

Is he prepared to potentially lose you over the underlying issues?. Does he realise and or even care he could lose you?. What if things are still the same with yourselves in say 3-6 months time?. If there is no real change at home what then for you?.

[HoneyandRum]

I get the impression that the OP was getting plenty off her chest and having a good rant, that's what we're here for. As her initially frustration and anger dissipated she then could get a more balanced view of things. No marriage or relationship is perfect, but this one has lots going for it. Encouraging the OP to stay in a state of righteous anger without helping her to move to finding solutions is not constructive IMHO. A marriage is a partnership and although some posters refuse to see it her DP is bringing lots to the table, as is she.

[happyclapper]

Thank you Honey. Couldn't put it better myself.

[LemonDrizzled]

Oh dear I think this could have been me fifteen years ago with my highly successful and very entitled H. Pilgit might well be my daughter because she describes my marriage perfectly. I tried SO hard to be the best wife, do everything at home, raise the kids, work part time to keep my career going, and not trouble my brainiac husband with domestic trivia. But I got martyrish and resentful and angry and eventually broke out, had a stupid affair and eventually decided to leave after 24 years of marriage.

If I had taken the advice you have been given OP and redressed the balance earlier then maybe my marriage would have prospered instead of withering through neglect and resentment.

Don't paper over the cracks and carry on trying harder to do the impossible! You need to accept your own feelings and explain them to your DH even if they don't suit him. Whether he finds an easier job or not he still thinks he is entitled to all his hobbies and fun time without compromising for you.

But I think you have had enough of letting off steam now and everything will go back to how it was until the pressure builds up again. Good luck!

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

HC

Have you written specifically about him before now?.

[HoneyandRum]

Being a martyr is unnecessary and passive-aggressive. Action to change things and actively working to find ways to reconnect and find balance in your partnership is the way forward.

If her DP is ambitious and creative then my guess is so is the DP. She needs to plug into that part of herself that created the exciting dynamic of their relationship and find ways to express it (some alone some with DP and/or kids). Her husband sounds fit and active, what about camping together? Hiking together? Paragliding?