"Men do better out of marriage than women."

[Farlalalala]

This is a view I've seen expressed on here a few times, and I was wondering - is it a common view held by many people on here/IRL? Because, unless you are married to a twat who takes you for granted - which is obviously a problem - then I don't see how men do better out of marriage than women, nowadays.

[shouldkeepquiet]

From my experience of being a married man and looking at my old uni friends who are still single i can see how their lifestyle is probably the reason married men live longer. They are still drinking / smoking / eating crap like we all did 20 years ago. My monthly units intake is about 1/4 of theirs and nothing comes in this house unless it is wholemeal / organic / low fat ect which is all down to my wife. Sad though it is i can see me going to a lot of funerals in my mid 60's.

[fiventhree]

When I was working full time and also had kids and often was pregnant, it occurred to me how lovely it would be to have a wife-just like my h-

[PanickingIdiot]

there's still the Big Lie that women are desperate to be married and men are desperate to stay unmarried

Dunno...do you know a lot of men who are desperate to be married? Who fret because their girlfriends, after six years of living together, have not proposed yet? Blokes who are eager to start a family at 25 but their partners would rather wait?

I don't think it's all a big lie. Just going by these boards would prove otherwise.

Sure, there are always exceptions and counter-examples, but come on. A man's breeding animal? I don't know many couples where it's the man that advocates breeding. Generally, the ones that are keener than their wives are of the controlling psycho sort, like the one on the other thread pushing for the fourth kid. In the more normal population, nine times out of ten it's the woman who wants a family.

[mcmooncup]

"Dunno...do you know a lot of men who are desperate to be married? Who fret because their girlfriends, after six years of living together, have not proposed yet? Blokes who are eager to start a family at 25 but their partners would rather wait?"

That is the Big Lie in action.

[HollyBerryBush]

Traditional marriages last longer and are happier for both parties than those who attempt to alter the status quo and inflict an unnatural power balance.

An old saying "the power behind the throne controls the throne" thus she who wants the throne will lose it becaue she devolves the power.

[Daddelion]

So in reality men want to get married more than women?

[NotGoodNotBad]

I've heard this too - married men happier than single, single women happier than married. I think it's telling that when men leave a marriage, it's generally (sorry, can't back this up with stats, just experience of many friends) for another woman. When women leave it's because they're unhappy in their marriage.

Just look at all the the threads on here by unhappy wives.

[NotGoodNotBad]

I don't know that men are keener to get married than women - maybe the other way round. But after a few years of marriage the men realise they've got it easy and the women realise they haven't!

[AKissIsNotAContract]

DP and I have a pretty untraditional set up. We both work full time but I earn twice as much as him. He does nearly all of the cooking, a lot of tidying up and his own ironing. The only household thing I do it is the laundry and we have a cleaner who does the rest.

We plan that when we have kids, he'll take more of the parental leave and be the main carer so I can focus on my career. I am looking forward to our wedding but it was him that wanted the big day more than me.

I'm not sure which one of us does better out of the set up. I know I couldn't work as hard as I do if he didn't cook my dinners and look after the house but then he wouldn't get nice holidays without my income.

We've had a few odd comments, one the other day where a group of women my age were shocked that I didn't do his ironing, one not long ago from a man who said he wouldn't 'feel like a man' if he was with a woman who earned more than him.

It works for us and we are happy. Fuck tradition.

[Farlalalala]

An unnatural power balance HollyBerry? So men are naturally meant to be in charge of women, is that what you mean?

[SolidGoldFrankensteinandmurgh]

Also, as soon as it became economically and sociably viable for women to live without marrying, loads started to do it, either by staying single or binning crap husbands. And the propaganda about how women must marry to be happy went into absolute overdrive, despite all the evidence to the contrary.

[superstarheartbreaker]

Don't women gain from marriage too though? Sex on tap, mutual support, tenderness, hugs, shared memories, joy, friendship and intimacy..in a good marriage. Ok I know there are bad marriages but surely the modren role of marriage is romantic. That romance IS so hard to find. Women shouldn't be made to feel inferior for not finding it. I would love to find it and I havn't ...I am one of life's naive romantics!

[tallwivglasses]

Aw superstar- better to be like that than one of life's cynics like me

[TheDoctrineOfSnatch]

PI: "Generally men who are keener than their wives [on having children] are the controlling psycho sort."

What. The. Fuck?

I think that's a generalisation too far by about 6000 miles

[youngblowfish]

I am not a huge fan of marriage at all, despite being happily married. Does that make me a hypocrite? Probably.

Anyway, I found this on Wikipedia:

'An annual study in the UK by management consultants Grant Thornton, [...] in 2004 found that 93% of divorce cases were petitioned by wives, very few of which were contested.' Link

IME, men are far keener on marriage (and children) than women. But perhaps I mostly hang out with feminists.

[monsterchild]

I agree Dontrine that is a huge generalization. I think that it's probably an even split who wants kids. It just isn't posted about much when men are good, doting dads who are more involved than the moms.

Farlalalala, your question about the messy woman and the tidy man describes my marriage perfectly. I am expecting our first child any time now, so I'll report back on how the child care is split! I certainly do not currently do the bulk of the housework!

[monsterchild]

Sorry, that should be doctrine! D'oh!

[MrsTerryPratchett]

Weird that people think that women want marriage and children and men don't. They may not talk about it that much. My DH wanted kids and I didn't. I'm sure he wasn't on here talking about it, though.

[monsterchild]

That may be the real difference, MrsT, that men don't go on and on about it. Not that I don't love a good gossip session, mind you!

I know my brothers who have kids were all very excited and are very keen Dads. My Dad loved having kids. My Dh loves kids too, probably more than I do. He's much more understanding and has a much longer fuse than I do.

I do think that in custody battles men have also bought into the lie and believe that kids are better off with the woman, and have an uphill battle to prove otherwise.
I personally don't think there should be a default parent in custody issues, because it perpetuates this attitude that women are "better" parents. It should be made on a case by case basis. donning my fire proof suit now

[SomersetONeil]

"I look at my mum's life and my bf's mum's life - both educated, working women who do all the housework and cooking as if thats somehow their job too - and think how bloody awful. But I did think it wouldn't be like that for my generation...or people under 40 anyway."

I give you... the Asda Christmas ad...

Or more pertinently, the numerous, long-running threads on here defending it, identifying with it, getting offended by people criticising it...!

[Toadinthehole]

I think men deserve just a little bit more credit than stated above. It is true that married men are probably required by their wives to go to the doctor . I suspect that they also feel they have responsiblity to look after themselves for the sake of their families they support. Out goes the beer drinking, the shite food, drugs, getting into fights and so on, in comes holding down the job and supporting home life.. and on that latter point, surveys about housework tend to exclude things men have traditionally done - lawns / gardening, DIY, fixing the car, putting up shelves, heavy lifting and so on.

What seems to be the case is that surveys will cover division of cooking, shopping and cleaning, will tend to find that women do the bulk of these things and - hey presto - the results get used to accuse men of laziness. Even things such as money - traditionally equally divided - don't get considered. A fair division of tasks needs to consider all the above, plus childcare and paid work. Then the finger-pointing can start, if anyone feels like it.

[TheDoctrineOfSnatch]

That's interesting about the surveys, Toad, I didn't know that. Have you got a link to any?

[CogitOCrapNotMoreSprouts]

I don't think it's possible to generalise. My personal experience of 17 years as a single woman & parent vs 12 in a partnership/marriage however is that I have thrived as singleton far better than when I was one of a couple. :)

My DS is unrelated to my exH so I've had 100% of the responsibilities of work, home and child with no assistance .... the 'unequal division of labour' argument being one most people cite as where women lose out.... and seem to have managed OK. I'm not 'anti-man'. I have various boyfriends & occasionally wonder if I should go out and find a life partner but can't really see what they'd add positively to my life at this stage.