Advice re Son please

[CrazyChicken]

My oldest is almost 21. He's still living at home but has his own 'shed' in the garden where he sleeps and hangs out (not self contained)
He's been with his girlfriend on and off for the past 2 years. She's controlling and very insecure (tells him what he can watch) cue lots of arguements and him wanting to break up. If this happens she'll turn up on the doorstep and refuse to leave and he usually ends up getting back with her. (we get dragged into it all the time and in front of our younger kids)
We've tried talking to them both and nothing changes, the latest arguement was him getting pics of an old girl friend behind her back. He's dumps her, she turns up, says she's pg but won't let him get another test to prove to us. She refuses to go so he takes her home and we said if she refuses to get out take her to the police station and let them sort it.
Anyway we've not seen him since - he's been coming in late and parking down the road so we can't hear him. Hair straighteners in his room so its obvious they are back together (oh message from her on FB saying she loves him)
I'm so up to here with it all, would it be unreasonable to kick him out? He knows she's not welcome and still he's with her.
I don't want to tell him who he can be with but they are beyond a joke and neither of them can be happy. The way my son is when they break up is just plain nasty and still he goes back.
What should I do? I'm trying not to be heavy handed about it but I think I'm losing prospective.

[SpanishPaella]

you dont need to kick him out, just say you dont want her in or around the house any more thank you

[CrazyChicken]

Spanish - we have but he's still sneaking her in!

Peabody - they are. He's doing an apprenticeship so cant afford to move out really. He is as much to blame by not growing a pair and standing up to her. They've been together for about 2 years and its always been like this. She wouldn't let him watch Jamanji cos he used to have a crush on the girl that's how ridiculous it is and he accepts it!
Thing is is he's sneaking her in, he knows she's not welcome so where do we go from her? He can't be trusted and doesn't respect our wishes.

[solidgoldbrass]

Your son is in an abusive relationship, and people in abusive relationships often find it very hard to get rid of the abuser. Just because this is a case of a man being bullied by a woman doesn't stop it being an abusive relationship.

Have a look at this site and suggest your DS has a look at it as well.

[CrazyChicken]

Solidgold, I never thought of it like that thank you.
Peabody yes good idea, see I'm so fed up with it all I never thought of that.

[Conundrumish]

Go steady with this - you don't want her as a daughter-in-law (this is how my SIL started out). I wouldn't interfere too much or you will drive them together. Try to get alongside him and find out why he feels he needs her. Males are supposed to talk better when they are alongside each other, rather than facing, so maybe you could ask him to help you or your DP/DH with a day's decorating or gardening or something .

It sounds like he needs a clean break - a spell working abroad or something. How long does the apprenticeship last?

[CrazyChicken]

He's got about another year and a half. I know what you are saying, we've tried talking, he agrees, says he's never going back etc its so frustrating. I think when I show him the website that might shock him. He's due home early today but chances are he'll go to hers (she lives at home and her parents haven't given her the best upbringing and know what she's like so we're on our own really)
He doesn't get involved with doing stuff, we've tried but she constantly rings and disturbs him then it all kicks off again. God writing it down has made me see it in a new light, she's 18 fgs!

[Snorbs]

Maybe also see if you can get him to read this as it's a quite succinct description of abusive/controlling behaviours.

[CrazyChicken]

Thanks Snorbs some of those ring so true :(

[fiventhree]

The most useful thing I ever learned about young adult kids (I have two of those- aged 31 and 24), is that they need to lead their own lives and make their own mistakes. They may listen to you, but they never do what is right for them until they are ready themselves. As parents we can support, but give them space to make up their minds.

BUT, we have every right to ensure that our young adult kids do not do or enable any behaviour in the house which affects us or other children negatively. We have rights too.

Im afraid if it were me, I would say that whilst he is welcome to live at home, she cannot stay. Dont justify this. Tell him that if she stays again, he will need to return to the house and you will lock the shed. Then that if she comes into the house, they will both have to leave. Mean this.

Then he can make his decision like an adult.

I had hell with my 31 year old until he was 24- he is fine now- but it took me years to learn this lesson, even after a counsellor had explained it to me.

You have a life too. Good luck.

[CrazyChicken]

Thank you! Yes you are right (why couldn't I see what was going on and what to do??!)

Hopefully I will be able to tell him all this face to face. I have no way of contacting him right now other than FB.

[izzywhizzyletsgetbusy]

Your ds is involved with a very emotionally needy young woman and he's taking an enormous risk by continuing to sleep with her.

Please implore him to fgs use condoms because he can't support himself yet, let alone a baby.

She's made her intention clear with reference to being pg and this alone should send him running for the hills - and towards another young woman with a well-balanced personality and ambitions beyond motherhood.

[Conundrumish]

Or, of course, you could encourage her to get professional help. She sounds like she would really benefit.

[oldwomaninashoe]

Leave him to make his own mistakes!

I have four sons all in their 20's so we have had to tolerate quite a few unsuitable girlfriends in the past.
They seem to get to the stage where they naturally have enough of hysterical behaviour and being manipulated and move quickly on.

He is very young yet and hopefully he will "grow out" of her.

DO hammer home to him the message of safe sex, you do not want to be a Granny yet, and do not want him to feel trapped.

Good luck!

[CrazyChicken]

Thanks again. She has admitted in the past she needs help. She's had councelling and does admit she has a problem.
I'm sure he's being careful, she's not physically fit enough to carry a baby (or possibly get pg) as she's very very underweight and is desperately trying to put weight on.
Anyway I had a quite word with him when he came in, wasn't pleased when I told him he#d be on the sofa as he couldn't be trusted. Didn't like me pointing out it was an abusive relationship (didn't get to show him the links) and he stormed off out. No idea when he'll be back. Hubby is fixing the gate so he can't have access to the garden.

[WibblyBibble]

Condoms (or any other contraceptive method) are not 100% reliable, ffs. If he really wants to not get her pregnant, he needs to stop fucking her. It sounds like she's had enough crap in her life (underweight- possible eating disorder? and where are her parents in all this? Not supporting her as far as your posts show, whereas your son is getting a lot of support from you) without some stupid boy knocking her up then dumping her, while his mother crows abotu how it's her fault for being 'abusive' (i.e. responding to his cheating on her by the sound of it).

[WibblyBibble]

Izzywhizzy, you really think a man who still lives with his mum and cheats on his partner is going to get someone 'well balanced'? Maybe he could try sorting himself out first?

[solidgoldbrass]

That this girl has problems does not mean that the OP's son and the OP have a duty to put up with her abusive behaviour (stalking, making threats, controlling, refusing to leave the premises when asked to do so). Some abusive men have MH problems, that doesn't mean their partners have to suck up the abuse because the poor darlings can't help it.

[CrazyChicken]

No she doesn't have an eating disorder, she's been to the dr about trying to put on weight. She desperately wants to be heavier.
I'm not crowing at all, you obviously haven't read my posts properly
My OP was about how to deal with him lying to us. We've tried supporting her too only to have it thrown back at us. I can't tell you how many times she's stayed with us because her parents have thrown her out. None of it matters to her except my son and what he's doing and who he's with.

I agree he needs to sort himself out, God knows I wish he'd grow up and grow a pair!

Thanks Solidbrass, we've tried our best with her but its getting ridiculous now. And no we don't have to put up with her hassling us and causing issues. We have 3 young children as well and despite us asking her to respect that she just does whatever she 'has' to to get her own way.

As for the 'cheating' he said he did it to get away from her yet is back with her now. Its all a nightmare and I'm fed up with the pair of them.

[FabbyChic]

What is wrong with him still living with his mother? He is doing an apprenticeship trying to make something of himself, whilst he is doing this he needs the support of his family certainly financially.

I think you are great OP you are trying to do what is right by your son.

All you can do is tell him that this girl is not for him, she will bring him down, force him into early fatherhood.

He needs to continue his training do well for himself, see a bit of life.

If you see her tell her she is not welcome in your house and you will not tolerate her behaviour hence she is not allowed in. Pack up her stuff.

Keep continuing to support your son, be there for him, try not to get involved in his relationship he will work it out in the end.

[CrazyChicken]

Thanks Fabby x

[kunahero]

at 'almost' 21 he is still v young. Rather than offering advice or laying down rules why not sit him down and ask him what he intends to do about the situation then when he comes up with some ideas, which he will, just let him know you are there for him, that you still love him and will do all you can to help him achieve his goal.
He is an adult so you can do little else.
Good luck

[TryLikingClarity]

I think 21 is still a fine age to be living at home, esp if he's training in a trade for a future job.

Would it help to maybe print out some of the info from the links given above and leave them in his room for him. Don't make a scene or a big deal out of it, but give him space to read it in his own time and at his own pace when he's thinking straight and she isn't there.

I agree with SGB, when I read the OP I had a flashing "control" alert in my head about that girl. I don't know her, so can't fully judge, but she does sound like a needy person and is trying to control your son to get her own way. Also, bleeting on your doorstep and in front of your younger children is RUDE! Clearly she thinks the world revolves around her.

I think your best bet, OP, is to love your son, give him a listening ear, but space to make some mistakes himself.

A pregnancy is def NOT want anyone needs right now

[fiventhree]

I dont think it matters whether he lives at home or not, and his choice of girlfriend is his own affair.

I agree with the OP with the four sons who says stay out of it. He will come to his own decision quicker if you do, anyway, he clearly is at least ambivalent about her.

I think the issue for the lady is not who her son sees, whether he has sex, or whether he lives at home, but about what she should tolerate in her own home.