Have name changed for this. I was going to post for advice on how to reactivate your sex life after having a baby and how to talk to my DH about sex, due to the fact that DH and I seem to have entirely lost our sex life, but a few things have come to light that put a whole new slant on my problem. Apologies for huge post.
We've been together for 3 years and in nearly every way is an amazing husband and father and we have a great relationship. He is gorgeous and I fancy the pants off him. But he has always had a lower sex drive than me, and in the past it's caused us a few problems. We have talked about it, though he finds it difficult and embarrassing to talk about and we have made some improvements and when ttc were finally at it regularly and starting to experiment more.
Fast forward to now, DS is 11 weeks old, and we have DTD about four or five times since I got pg and only once since he was born. I had a previous mc so DH didn't want to during the first 12 weeks, which I could understand. Then it was because he felt 'weird' as I got bigger about the baby being there, again which I could understand and I didn't really feel like it myself when I got bigger. But we didn't just have no sex, it was no intimacy or sexual activity at all apart from cuddling and I was a bit put out and quite frustrated.
As I said he struggles to talk about it, and it usually ends up with me talking and him just listening to me going on about how I would like us to be more open and have more sex. He finds it hard to open up to me.
So I've just been working under the assumption that we just have different sex drives (and he has even said this to me in the past). Then last night we went out for the first time together since DS was born for a couple of hours and we had a talk about it again. And I got out of him that he masturbates every couple of days and also that he pretty much always uses porn to do so! 
Now I've seen all the threads on here about porn usage and I'm pretty laid back about it tbh, I have found it arousing myself in the past and I had an idea that he watched it and wasn't that bothered. But I'm just shocked at how often he does it, when we've not had sex for weeks!! When I asked him about it earlier he said it used to be a lot more and that he's calmed down a lot!!
I don't want to fly off the handle with him, I'm glad he's opened up to me and told me (finally) and I worry that if I go mad with him it'll put him off talking to me, but it totally changes my perception on why we're not having sex. He has also said that he is really tired and doesn't want to have sex when it takes ages. It takes ages because it usually sometimes takes me ages to come. I was conscious of this for years when I was younger and I didn't used to bother even trying at all with a man. So I feel that he's essentially saying he can't be bothered making sure I get pleasure. The last few times we have DTD I was just glad we were doing it so was just happy with a quickie.
So now I'm feeling really rejected and quite put out by the fact that he does seem to have a fairly normal sex drive, but has got into the habit of instant gratification at the expense of our sex life. I just don't know what to do or what to say to him. I'm hoping that this marks a turning point and that he will make more of an effort from now on, but I'm gutted that he seems to prefer porn to me. I'm a bit kinky very open minded and would love to share in his fantasies and experiment more. I asked him what he watched once and he showed me a film that was surprisingly erotic and female centric, romantic almost (lots of kissing, cunnilingus etc) and his kink seems to be stockings!
Any advice on how to handle this appreciated.
Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody
Relationships
DH has an active sex life, just not with me.
Innerdaemon · 16/07/2011 23:32
Sounds good to me.
My H stopped viewing porn completely when I found out about his affair - counselling made him realise that using porn was a lazy and selfish way of resolving his need for more sex and that instead of improving our sex life, over time, it had a negative impact.
Our sex life is now so much better 
Ok this thread has probably gone cold but I thought I'd add my update anyway as I feel rather proud of myself!
After lots of days of putting off, pouting, stomping about & being generally upright & angry I finally did raise this again with DP.
I was finally able to make clear my feelings of loneliness, inadequacy & hurt from all these years. To express that deserve better & say that I want to have a relationship that is sexually fulfilling & fun.
This time DP actually listened, did not get angry or defensive but admitted to having been lazy & selfish we considered where it had gone wrong.
We have agreed to try & bring some fun & joy back into our relationship & to work on opening up to each other & making time for each other.
Not sure if it will work but we are making a good start & I am feeling much more positive about our future.
So it appears that maybe even after such a long time we might still make each other happy if we put the effort in & get out this rut
Well done inner , still trying to get it straight in my head before tackling the issue again.
So pleased for you
Sorry for the protracted response it's been a mad few days and I've just not had time to post before now, just wanted to say thank you so much to everyone who posted to try to help, in particular SimplySerene for your incredibly thoughtful and detailed response. I have taken on board everything that has been said and tackled my dh about it.
I felt a lot more prepared and empowered as a result of this thread and I really feel like we are getting somewhere now. He has said that he recognises that it affects our sex life and that it has become a habit. He said it was just that it was 'efficient'! 
but that he is is going to stop using it.
He also opened up to me about his reasons for withdrawing from me and I have realised how my actions have caused him to feel rejected too. I don't really want to go into the ins and outs of it, but a lot has fallen into place and it is all starting to make sense now. I've told him I think we should have a wank (and sex) ban and he agreed. We then went on to get intimate and without wanting to be crude about it he took the time to make sure I got pleasure, and I felt a lot more confident about being pro-active in showing him what I wanted and we didn't go on to have full sex. We both felt a lot closer and more positive about our sex life and I now know that he wasn't happy with the status quo either.
I'm not done talking about it either, though I think he would rather I was. I want to know more about his reasons for watching it and what he gets out of it. I think we just need to keep communicating about sex and what we both need and maintaining closeness and intimacy.
As far as I am concerned, another win for Mumsnet. Thanks all.
This reply has been deleted
Message withdrawn
Oh dear, yes ok, you were 'in a mood' 
Please understand that this is not your fault and it won't go away. Sorry.
I feel another very, very long, rambling reply coming on...
bun, daemon, my heart goes out to you. I understand very, very well how hurtful your partner's porn use and withdrawal from partnered sexuality is.
For 8 years, my partner focused on porn while I was constantly rejected. I was young, inexperienced and he was my first serious, commited relationship with a man. It was crushing for my self-esteem and my identity as a woman.
--PORN & FEMALE BEAUTY---------
"It does eat me up inside & I wonder why I'm not good enough."
"It doesn't half knacker your self esteem being rejected by your DH"
"irrationally I feel like he settled for me & I'm not attractive enough for him to be interested"
"I blame myself too (heavier than I've ever been in my life after ds) and it's knocked my confidence being rejected. "
"I wonder how those women would look after spending 12 hours looking after a very boisterous 11 month old! He seems qutie disinterested in me as a sexual being. And I have looked after myself, I really have tried. I make a bloody effort actually."
It took me a long while to truly get my head around it, but I cannot state it often enough: whether a man looks at porn instead of his partner has NOTHING to do with how she looks. It is not a beauty competition. If you molded yourself into a perfect image of what the media forcefeed us as supposedly beautiful and desired by men, your partners would still use porn. It is simply not about that.
To your partners, these women are not human beings (otherwise, they would have to seriously think about the ethical implications of their porn use), just shorthand images for sexual fantasies. As long as they have some basic primary sexual signals, what they look like matters little.
Most likely, your partners' porn use has NOTHING to do with you at all. It is only about how they feel about themselves, their identity as men and their sexuality and habits.
Seeing such lovely, wonderful women as you are so hurt by this also always makes me want to shout: YOU HAVE BEAUTY, LOVE, SPIRIT AND DIGNITY. YOUR VALUE AS A HUMAN BEING AND WOMAN IS NOT DEFINED BY HOW DESIRABLE YOU ARE TO MEN!!
Ah, now I feel better...
As a brief aside: My DP's ex-wife is exceptionally pretty. She spends a lot of time, money and effort on her appearance and reaches magazine cover standards. She is truly stunning. Her sex life with DP was practically non-existant for years and before that he describes it as "a chore you had to do because that is what you do in a relationship". He had zero desire for her. Looks are irrelevant. Love,trust and appreciation is what matters. If you have that, you will always be beautiful in his eyes.
"TMI perhaps but at my last waxing seesion I did catch myself thinking, 'what is the bloody point of this? It costs £40, hurts like hell, is a bugger to arrange with care of DS, and what am I doing it for? If I didn't make the move, DH and I would never do the deed!"
As another aside, bail. I think it is a very good question to ask yourself what the point of this is. You pay somebody to rip your hair out because you hope that another person will then desire you / think you are beautiful / judge you as up to their standards?
Can I ask you how you think about yourself just the way you are - with hair? Do you think you are not desirable, imperfect, ugly, unclean, less-than, not feminine? The kind of love you deserve is for a man to gently slide his hands along your legs and relish in the ticklish sensation of your hair against his fingers,for him to be crazy about playing with and kissing and licking the soft curls at the beginning of your thighs. Because they are a part of you.
Do you find touching your partner's body hair revolting? No? Then why should he be bothered about yours?
In my experience, men worth having (read: emotionally mature, self-confident, loving) couldn't care less about all the beauty industry nonsense women subject themselves to.
The idea that porn use is about female attractiveness also touches upon one of my pet peeves: the idea that men are somehow more instinct-driven and governed by sexual urges than women. Men are not animals. They are just as reasonable, enlightened, sensitive, thoughtful and caring as women. Their level of desire for a woman is not simply coupled to beauty standards and quick orgasms. They want a sexuality that is about emotional connection, security, feeling appreciated, trusted, desired and loved just as much as we do.
If we accept and reinforce the idea that men are emotionally stunted cavemen, we force anyone who wants to identify with being a man to behave in that way and we let them off the hook for cultivating more enlightened behaviour. Can we as women, mothers, sisters and wives please stop to imply and propagate this misandric nonsense that is so damaging for our sons, brothers and husbands?
POTENTIAL CAUSES OF PORN ADDICTION-------
"I think it's become the easy option for him and he does use it to hide from me intimately. "
I agree with you ID. I am sorry to say that your DH sounds a little bit like my ex-partner. If that is the case, then this is an issue that needs dealing with. Don't ignore it. Don't give in. It will not go away.
"as brought up in a household where sex was taboo and considered 'dirty'. His mum found a porno mag when he was a teenager and his mum was as disgusted (as some of you on this and other threads about porn) and said all sorts of things about how dirty and disgusting he was and how masturbation was wrong. hmm I don't think that helped too much with the being open and sharing thing."
My ex-partner's father divorced his wife when my ex was in primary school. His mother was and is very bitter and resentful about it. Her reaction contributed to his father loosing contact with my ex-partner (although it seems he wasn't trying too hard to stay involved). Today, my ex-partner will tell you that he wants nothing to do with his dad (to the great relish of his mother). And yet, loosing that contact was incredibly damaging for him. He was raised in an all female household where covert and overt misandry did go unchallenged. Men were portrayed as unfeeling, amoral, sex-crazed brutes and sexuality was dirty, seedy and shameful. Women, on the other hand, were pure, more intelligent and emotionally and ethically superior. No wonder that my ex-partner now has huge issues with what it means to be an adult male...
-IS PORN USE ACCEPTABLE?--------
"Will deny the entent of it vociferously, but admits usage."
Denying porn use because they fear repercussions from their partner is cowardly. Denying it because they themselves on some level feel ashamed for their sexuality and the way they express it is a RED FLAG!! "Healthy" porn use would mean being comfortable and totally open about it and being able to convincingly justify it with rational, non-defensive arguments. Hating yourself for something you crave is just self-destructive. Counselling seems strongly advisable.
"From my experience the majority of men use porn. That's just the way it is now, unfortunately. "
And from my experience, the majority of women (as well as the minority of men who actually think through what porn is and what it implies about sexuality, gender and ethics) find mainstream porn deeply hurtful and unsettling. But they are silenced by believing their individual opinion is not valid if everyone else's opinion differs or are fearful of seeming uptight in a society where porn seems generally accepted. Who cares whether porn use is "normal" or "ubiquitous"? If you feel hurt by it, you have a right to say it out loud and to demand that your partner acknowledges and respects your feelings!! (And at the very least enters into a mature, balanced discussion about why he uses porn and how it affects your relationship.)
"I have a dd and I detest how porn (and society, but that's another thread) objectifies women, but I can't do a lot about it apart from teach her how to have a healthy relationship by example."
You might also want to teach her to take her own feelings and boundaries seriously and to take responsibilty and action for having others respect them. Even if she knows nobody else who thinks like her. You might want to teach her it is okay to think porn is wrong for no other reason than that it makes her feel uncomfortable, even if everyone else insists it is just harmless fun.
"it seems some women will bury their perfectly reasonable objections to porn to appear "cool" and keep on thinking their lack of a decent sex life is somehow their fault. it really is not their fault"
Spot on.
"but it doesn't necessarily compute that men who watch porn are by definition selfish, lazy and all bastards."
I agree that it is wrong to make sweeping judgements based on porn use. They are not all bastards. My ex-partner is not a bastard.
But they are selfish, cowardly and lazy. And we are perfectly entitled to challenge them to do better, to take responsibilty for their actions and to think about the implications of their choices for other people. Men are not animals. We are entitled to treat them like the responsible, feeling, loving human being they are. For their own sake.
"these men are selfish and lazy"
Yes, they are.
And maybe they are also inhibited, frightened, confused by male stereotypes, inexperienced in dealing with their own emotions, paralysed by not knowing how to face the issue and talk about it and struggling with an upbringing that told them they are basically sex-driven animals (and threatens them with the label "wimp" if they don't behave like it) but then shames them for it as "amoral bastards" at the same time.
HOW TO TACKLE PORN USE IN YOUR PARTNER---------
ID, regarding specific recommendations as to what to do:
Do address it with DH. He may push you away, fight and say hurtful things not to have to face it. Calmly persist.
When talking to him speak from a place of love and appreciation. Don't judge. Let him know you love him and appreciate him. Let him know he has the capacity to please you. Let him know how much he is desired and that you enjoy being with him.
When explaining why his behaviour is hurting you, be very specific. Make it clear that masturbation and sexuality are positive things. When explaining why porn is hurtful, be very clear and specific. Some part of him may well think porn is wrong because the sexual acts he is looking at are wrong and dirty. It is quite difficult to get across that it is not the sexuality of porn that is the problem but the emotional impact it has in your relationship.
Rather than seeking to curtail the porn/masturbation, I would focus on rebuilding a joyful, positive, pressure-free, satisfying partnered sexuality. If a man feels safe, free, trusted and appreciated with a real woman - no porn can compete with that. It will loose its appeal.
Also consider that if he is a regular porn user, it has become a habit. Like smoking, he may persist at doing something that he knows is harmful to himself and to you, just because habits are difficult to break.
Habitual porn use will also shape his sexuality. He may be desensitised or conditioned to react only to certain visual stimuli. It can take time to unlearn this.
He might need counselling. Preferably with a male counselor? There may be deep-seated issues involved that cannot be resolved by talking as a couple.
"I agree about the orgasms being the main goal, I don't think he really knows what to do when it's not going the whole hog as it were. I think spending more time having no orgasm sex may just open his eyes."
I agree. I would also recommend lots of low-key, physical contact that is still sensual but not "officially" sex. Massage is perfect.
WHEN TO WALK AWAY?-------------
"might it not be spent in better ways than trying to therapise some inadequate porn fan? And it might it not be better for him if you actually treated him like an adult and made him accept the consequences of his actions?"
whitecat, I totally get what you say. Once I had it clear in my head that I deserve to be worshipped and desired as the beautiful goddess I am () and that my ex was not capable of that, I left him.
But unfortunately, it is not quite so simple if you believe the relationship is still worth working on. If the consequence of his action is a shell of a relationship with no real intimacy and he believes he is comfortable with that but she is not, what then?
"if he's withdrawn from the relationship to seek his pleasure elsewhere, i don;t see why she is duty bound to do all the running to revive it."
She is not. But she may still choose to do so for the sake of her love, the relationship and their common future. No matter how unfair it is, the reality is that many men with a porn habit that is fuelled by sexuality/shame issues WILL NOT do anything about it until someone seriously kicks their ***.They would rather not have partnered sex at all than face the issue. In fact, they may secretly wish for a sexless relationship as the comfortable path of least resistance.
Seeking pleasure elsewhere (i.e. with another man) is nonsensical advice if you love your partner. It does make sense in the context of taking care of your own physical needs through masturbation etc. but that won't resolve the issue with reduced intimacy as a couple. When the woman withdraws, the man will just feel relieved she is "off his case" and continue with his self-destructive habit.
In my case, the difficulty was that my ex also had many good qualities, he was very devoted and treated me with kindness and affection. I think we women often feel that as long as our partner is not blatantly abusive, we have to ignore our own feelings and needs for the sake of making the relationship work. Otherwise we are selfish or fickle. After eight years, I finally gave myself permission to feel I had tried long enough with my ex. And walked away.
After I had left him, he offered to go to sexual therapy. I strongly advised him to seek help for his own sake. I did not take him back. When it was clear the therapy would not lead to us getting back together, he abandoned the idea and has still not addressed the issue.
Having said that, I have no regrets. It was indescribably painful, but I learned so much from that relationship. It convinced me beyond doubt that the only opinion about myself that matters is my own. It forced me to explore and love my own body and sexuality without depending on a partner. It gave me the courage to listen to my heart, without feeling I have to justify myself to anyone. It taught me that open communication is everything in a relationship. It taught me that my first responsibility in this life is to take good care of my own well-being.
Two years on, I am deeply in love with an absolutely wonderful man with whom sharing and exploring our sexuality is so invigorating, exciting, full of tenderness and utterly satisfying that there have been several occasions where I shed tears of joy in the bedroom.
bail, buns, innerdaemon, it seems to me that your partners' issues may be less serious than my ex-partner's. (Unless they cannot hear the word "penis" spoken without cringing, have never allowed you to touch their private parts and feel uncomfortable kissing you unless it is a chaste peck on the cheek.) So it may well be that you have a chance to build the relationship you deserve together with your men. I wish you all the best.
Buns, I am so sorry to read this. It sounds absolutely awful 
I hope the others learn from you about what can happen when a partner decides he prefers a magazine/internet to his real life partner. It is THIER problem, not yours and if you are to resolve this, they will have to take responsiblity. You can't fix their probelms on your own and nor should you be expected to.
Don’t want to miss threads like this?
Weekly
Sign up to our weekly round up and get all the best threads sent straight to your inbox!
Log in to update your newsletter preferences.
You've subscribed!
Spot on about other women always seeming to be the ones holding back their sex crazes blokes.
It's hard because rationally I think it probably is all DPs issue of being a bit sexually selfish, lazy & maybe uptight in some way. However, irrationally I feel like he settled for me & I'm not attractive enough for him to be interested.
Fucking hell wish i could be as clear cut emotionally as some claim they are.
Such a head fuck
To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.