We are as bad as each other - help!

[TooManyTantrums]

I've just had a nasty row with DH and I am feeling confused.

It started small; DH is off to a golf thing tomorrow and casually dropped in "oh I did tell you that I'll be staying overnight, didn't I?". Um, nope . This was on the back of him turning up pissed tonight after a day at the cricket, coming back at 9pm when he said he'd try to be back earlier, then talking nonstop about himself and his clients without it entering his head to ask how I am. Answer: 7 weeks' pregnant, incredibly tired and pretty green around the gills, thank you.

I have no issue with the cricket/golf but was feeling doormatesque, and got the hump. He wheedled, drunkenly, at me then said something along the lines of "fine, fuck off then, what am I supposed to do, quit my job?". He storms upstairs and, directly next to the bedroom of our DS (18m) starts kicking the stairgate until it breaks.

He has form for this. It has been a couple of years but before then he would regularly trash our house in response to a verbal disagreement - smashed mirrors, kicked-in radiator covers, photos thrown at walls etc. I never feel in danger but I hate hate hate the fact that he destroys something we have worked so hard on and spent so much on. I feel it is incredibly disrespectful. He knows this, and knows how seriously I felt about it last time, hence he has been "good" recently.

So, anyway, this combined with the fact that our DS is sleeping next door makes me flip. I go up and scream at him to get out and push him along the corridor and downstairs (not so as he falls but moving him along). I'm ranting at him about how he promised he wouldn't do this ever again.

Downstairs we row more and his gist (all calm and controlled now ) is that this happened because I was sulking and he didn't understand what he'd done wrong. I basically don't care about the row and just want him never to trash the house, saying that that is always always a disproportionate response and that it's the kind of thing that violent drunks do. He's pretty much rolling his eyes.

It fizzles out and we are now in separate rooms.

We both have appalling tempers (although they don't often see the light of day) and I'm conscious that I was pushing him about - but that only happened because I felt so angry about the house thing and the fact that he did it even though DS was so close. But I hold my hands up.

I feel that I was right to be narked in the first place about being taken for granted and completely aggrieved that any part of him thinks that his behaviour was justified. Even though I know I didn't conduct myself brilliantly I don't want just to sweep it under the carpet.

It is difficult to prolong any discussion though because my parents are with us the rest of the week.

What should I do?

[cestlavielife]

you should not have to cope with a tantrum in an adult - because adults should not have tantrums.

he has to decide this though. everyone deals with stresses in their own way. if his is to tantrum - so be it. but consider your options.

[smartyparts]

I think you both need to get some help to deal with your tempers. It's a terrible environment for your dcs to be raised in.

And I, for one, could not live with a man (or have any respect for) who would recklessly trash the house because of an argument.

[buzzsore]

It's not impossible to avoid the slips if he gave it up completely. By accepting he'll slip, by accepting him drinking at all, you're accepting it will happen again - and at some point your child is going to become aware of it. You're going to have a hard time explaining to your ds why it's ok for daddy to smash things when he's cross, but not for him.

[TooManyTantrums]

Well, he woke me up really early in the morning to apologise. It was profuse and heartfelt. I think the eye-rolling was his drunk, go-to reaction and not how he genuinely felt. He said he was utterly ashamed, no excuses. He didn't ask for any apologies from me for my behaviour - I think he thought my reaction was justified - but I said that I shouldn't have pushed him around and wanted not to do that again.

I genuinely don't think that this will ever escalate to physical violence. I never feel in danger - it is far more like a toddler having a tantrum because he doesn't have his own way. Even when I was pushing him around, he just looked surprised/hurt/interrupted. I didn't blink before fronting up to him, because I simply wasn't scared. There was no reaction to me personally at all. And when he has done this in the past and the pattern has always been the same, it has never escalated.

In the same way, when I was pushing him, I would never ever have hurt him - I love him far too much for that. I flipped but wasn't completely out of control.

So the question is not one of preventing someone from being hurt but how to stop this happening again. My biggest fears are the ones identified by c'estlavie - that one of us will be hurt accidentally or - and this is the biggie - that DS would see and be scared/scarred by this. It turns my stomach even to think about it and from my briefish conversation with DH this morning I know it does his too.

He isn't an alcoholic writerofdreams but I agree that he has a problem with alcohol. I am going to discuss it seriously with him tomorrow (our first opportunity) but I imagine that he won't have a problem agreeing to modify his alcohol intake - in fact he does that already to minimise its depressive effects, but he slipped yesterday. It's been more than 2 years since the previous incident.

What worries me I guess is that it's impossible to avoid the accidental slips completely and how to cope with a tantrum in an adult man. Anyway, just rambling now. I don't know where I am going with this now but thank you for all the views ladies.

[WriterofDreams]

I think your feelings come a distant second to the feelings and safety of your children. You say you don't feel in danger, but a small child would be terrified if they saw their mum or dad kicking furniture and breaking things. Do you want your children to grow up in that environment? Imagine how stressful and horrible it must be for a child to hear their parents screaming at each other and banging things about. It's just not acceptable. At all. You both might have a temper but you're adults and you're parents and you must both learn to grow up and take responsibility for the life you're giving your children.

I think it's time to sit down with your DH and have it out with him. He is clearly an alcoholic. A person who allows drink to control and destroy their life is an alcoholic. If he wasn't an alcoholic he would realise the effect drink is having on his life and just give it up. But he has chosen drink over you and the children. It is more important to him than his family at the moment. Perhaps if you put it to him that way it might hit home?

Either way, you need to take action right now. Don't wait until someone gets hurt. You have a duty as a mother and you can't ignore it.

[buzzsore]

It's totally unacceptable and I think you need to demonstrate how unacceptable it is by kicking him out temporarily or some other measure. If he gets to dismiss it and minimise, there's no reason he won't repeat the performance.

Obviously you shoving him means he'll probably turn it around on you, but I can understand why you would respond that way with your toddler so close to the gate he was smashing. I should hold up your hands to that and not defend your actions, but use it as a proof for why you should both have space from each other.

Ideally I think he should commit to stopping alcohol altogether, as he is a nasty, aggressive drunk.

[RudeEnglishLady]

Next time he does it I'd call the police and get him removed from the house. That might shake him up a bit. He certainly doesn't listen to what you say. Tell people as well, he's relying on you keeping his abuse secret. Bet he doesn't want people to think he's a violent piss-head which in fact he is, just because its not every day doesn't make it any better.

[ItsMeAndMyPuppyNow]

I hate hate hate the fact that he destroys something we have worked so hard on and spent so much on. I feel it is incredibly disrespectful. He knows this, and knows how seriously I felt about it last time

...how seriously do you feel about it this time? What are you going to do? You can't make him stop, only he can decide to do that.

He knows breaking the home furnishings is something you dislike. He has done it several times in the past, has just done it again, and rolls his eyes at you rather than take responsibility. Your getting angry at him is not likely to make him take responsibility: only he can do that, and clearly he doesn't want to.

Do you take responsibility for shoving him? Are you remorseful and vowing never to do that to another person again? Do you want to change?

And yes, it is intimidation to break things in response to a disagreement. It is absolutely sending the message: "Don't cross me, or it's your face next."

I'm not trying to be harsh, OP. I spent 12 years asking a man to stop frightening me by his rages, insults, and physical intimidation. I was sure he would stop, if only he could understand me. I lived in the hope that he would, and in the frustration that he didn't, until I finally accepted that if I kept asking for a change that kept not coming, I was just choosing to beat my own head against a wall.

[ooohyouareawfulbutilikeyou]

i couldnt live with either of you, behaving like that when there is a small child in the house

[cestlavielife]

a very bad model.

it might not be directed at you or DS but it says - it could be you next time" and what if DS or the new baby gets in the way of his fist or kick even accidentally? he throws something and it hits you in the stomach and causes a miscarraige? then what will you do? realise once it is too late?

so you both at fault arguing - but he takes it to a whole new level.

you cannot carry on together like this - sooner or later someone your DC will be caught in the cross fire.

get help or agree to live separately for the sake of your DC.

[TooManyTantrums]

The booze has a lot to do with it, and in fact it explains the period of calm recently as he's really been careful. He knows that he can't handle alcohol but more from the perspective that it brings on depressive episodes in him.

I worry that he thinks I am overreacting. But I'm not, am I? I should be able to disagree with him - whether I'm right or wrong - without it giving him licence to throw a physical tantrum.

And I don't worry for DS's safety but am concerned that he could be scared. And what kind of role model is his father when acting like this?

[FabbyChic]

I mean he should be able to do that and not come home pissed!

[FabbyChic]

Seriously you need telling? I couldn't live with a man that may or may not trash the house when there is an argument, specially when there are children in the house.

He sounds like he has work commitments that involve him socialising of an evening? If he cannot do that without coming home pissed he is going to have to change his bloody job so he can behave like a reasonable human being.